Response to a non-viable pregnancy

[trials]

Helpless is what I was a few years ago when I was totally immersed in sin. I couldn’t see the sin, couldn’t seem to stop it, was like someone drowning in a swamp in fact. Or to borrow your image, a dog harnessed in a cage. Not understanding much. Not loving much.

Until my re-conversion. This is freedom, what I have now.

You may feel helpless in this situation, but God has placed you in it for a reason. The power of prayer is incredible - you may be the only one praying earnestly about this whole situation - that is a privilege and a responsibility. The only one talking to God about all of this.

You may not be able to change the course of events, and may be the only one aware of what is really happening here, but you need to spend time with God and find out how to deal with these feelings. That little baby will be an ally of yours in Heaven, and God knows we need all the friends we can get. I have three little angels up there myself and I pray that they will get me there some way or other - if you knew my past, you’d understand the depths of God’s mercy. Pray for your sister, her family, the baby.

There will be other situations where you will be able to make a difference. For now you need to pray. When your sister asks you your opinion, pray that the Holy Spirit will inspire you to say the right thing.

 

[jawgee]

Prayers for your family. What a terrible tragedy.

I am sharing a link to a blog about a family in my area who just suffered the same tragedy. They chose to carry their baby to term - and she lived for 43 minutes.

thegiftofrachelslife.blogspot.com/2010/08/life-out-of-death.html

One quote I love from the day their daughter was born:

She is our gift, straight from God. I don’t know what I’m going to do without her, but I am so grateful to have been able to know her. I love her so much.

Maybe this blog can be of some comfort to your sister.

 

[Sharen]

Again, I’m so sorry for you family. When I was pregnant with my first daughter, I too has an unfavorable ultrasound at 20 weeks. My daughter had a large hole in her heart. I was encouraged to abort by my doctors and Inlaws. In fact, when Colleen died at 8 weeks of age, my mother in laws exact words were “how dare you put us thru this. You should have had the abortion”. My friend terminated an anacephalic child under suggestion from her dr. He didn’t discuss with her the possibility of the life giving gift her child could give other children. She thought that the abortion would help her move on and get over her grief. It didn’t for her. When you speak to your sister please try to offer support if she is being pressured. Please allow yourself to grieve as well. You are suffering a terrible loss. You and your family are in my prayers.

 

[wanner47]

Prayers for your family. What a terrible tragedy.

I am sharing a link to a blog about a family in my area who just suffered the same tragedy. They chose to carry their baby to term - and she lived for 43 minutes.

thegiftofrachelslife.blogspot.com/2010/08/life-out-of-death.html

One quote I love from the day their daughter was born:

Maybe this blog can be of some comfort to your sister.

That’s a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that link.

 

[sherimarie]

I believe you will regret it if you do not say a few words to defend your little niece/nephew, did she ever tell you the babies sex? that was the reason they went for the ultrasound right?
I treasured every moment I had with my baby before I had the dc even though i knew she was no longer alive.
Also i had a cousin who had a scare like your sisters at 4 months then went back a month later and found out every thing was fine, just a shadow before they said, I say miracles can happen if you leave yourself open to Gods will.

 

[RyanBlack]

I beg to differ. Please read the stories on this site, and you will see that these births do indeed have joy:

benotafraid.net/stories.asp?filter=Anencephaly

I can see no joy in these stories. I see nothing but profound tragedy and unfathomable sorrow. I respect these parents for holding to their convictions and following the teaching of the Church, rather than taking the easy way out. I pray that God will always comfort and bless them for their obedience, for in these cases, their obedience carried the cost of enduring pregnancies that they knew would result in births of children who cannot possibly survive. Many people–probably most–would simply resort to an abortion. If they truly were able to find joy, I am happy for them. However, I know that my wife and I could not find joy in similar circumstances, and I feel sure that this is the case for most couples. For me–and I suspect for most people–the horror of the situation would disallow for any feelings of joy. If my wife and I were to find ourselves in such a situation, I pray that we would find the strength to be obedient. I could accept be reminded of the Church’s teaching. However, I would take great offense if our subjections to such a tormenting, terrifying trial were trivialized if I were told by someone that we should expect to find joy in the midst of such horror.

 

[Listener]

I don’t want to get your hopes up, but I have heard of too many cases where the doctors were giving pregnant women grim news. Sometimes pregnant women are scared to death because they have been told that the baby might have down syndrome or that there is something else wrong with the baby.

Then the woman gives birth to a perfectly healthy baby.

For this reason (and because it would be creepy to do away with an unborn child who can actually kick), I think it would be wise to at least wait until the time when it would be possible for the baby to live outside the uterus. What if the doctor was wrong?

 

[jawgee]

I can see no joy in these stories. I see nothing but profound tragedy and unfathomable sorrow.

There is joy. One of these stories was entitled “The Greatest Three Days of My Life”. I held my child who died at birth, and although the circumstances were different, I can tell you from experience that, despite the immense pain and sadness, there is also intense joy at being able to hold a child that you helped to create.

I am continuing to pray for the couple struggling with this decision. May God be with them during this difficult time.

 

[wanner47]

I can see no joy in these stories. I see nothing but profound tragedy and unfathomable sorrow.

So… you know better* than people who have gone through this experience for themselves*, and have stated* that they felt joy*, what they were feeling?

How did you come by this omnipotent knowledge?

I respect these parents for holding to their convictions and following the teaching of the Church, rather than taking the easy way out. I pray that God will always comfort and bless them for their obedience, for in these cases, their obedience carried the cost of enduring pregnancies that they knew would result in births of children who cannot possibly survive.

And in return they felt blessed and rewarded to have time with their children, even if it was only a few minutes or a few hours. None of them regret their decision.

Many people–probably most–would simply resort to an abortion. If they truly were able to find joy, I am happy for them. However, I know that my wife and I could not find joy in similar circumstances, and I feel sure that this is the case for most couples.

How can you know this with certainty? Again, how did you come by this omnipotent knowledge? Do you deny the Scripture that states with God, all things are possible?

For me–and I suspect for most people–the horror of the situation would disallow for any feelings of joy.

The families at benotafraid.net prove otherwise.

If my wife and I were to find ourselves in such a situation, I pray that we would find the strength to be obedient. I could accept be reminded of the Church’s teaching. However, I would take great offense if our subjections to such a tormenting, terrifying trial were trivialized if I were told by someone that we should expect to find joy in the midst of such horror.

Who was TRIVIALIZING anything? No one in this thread have said it would be EASY. Of course not, going through something like that would be the hardest experience of anyone’s life. But then Christ never said that following His teachings would be easy.

The easy choice is having an abortion. But it’s not, in the Catholic faith, the right choice. As Christians we are called to do what is right and not what is easy, and as the families at benotafraid.net show, even the most difficult choices in our lives can bring some joy.

I’ve lost two babies to miscarriage. With my first, we didn’t know anything was wrong until we had an ultrasound at 12 weeks and discovered that s/he had died a few weeks prior. I would have given ANYTHING to be able to hold my baby, even for just a minute. If our ultrasound had revealed a baby with a terminal condition instead of a baby with no heartbeat, I would have gladly carried him/her as long as possible so I could have every minute possible with him/her.

I have a friend who, back in February, discovered at around 20 weeks that their baby had passed in-utero due to a heart condition. Her labor was induced and she gave birth to their daughter. She was not alive, but they still held her and kissed her and said goodbye, and she was *so *grateful she had that opportunity. I know she would have been even more grateful if she’d had the chance to hold her baby while she was still alive, even if only for a minute or two.

Maybe you should read those stories again, and see that amid great sorrow can come great joy. That’s the story of our Christian faith – through the great sorrow of Christ’s crucifixion, we derived the joy of being saved from our sins.

 

[st_felicity]

Joy is not happiness. They are different emotions. Joy is a contentment with all being right according to God’s Divine Perfection. Joy is a welling up of peace. One can be joyful and be sad at the same time.

Doing what we know is right and accepting God’s sovereignty while abandoning ourselves to his mercy and consolation is joyful.

 

[Joe_5859]

I spoke with the priest after mass today, and he said that given my concern that my sister wouldn’t listen to me anyway, I had no positive moral obligation to tell her “hey, I know you’re like, incredibly sad right now, but I just wanted to let you know that what you’re doing is murder.” Now, I know I have no reasonable expectation to avoid ostracization from my family for the sake of the faith, but I’d like to think that if I was, it would at least accomplish something. Is that how it’s supposed to go, or do I have it wrong?

How about I give you her contact information, and then YOU can be filled with regret for not doing more?

I wasn’t trying to guilt you into anything. I simply wanted to encourage you not to simply push it out of your mind. If it were me, I would rather take the opportunity to think through it now when there is the possibility for action than wait until it is passed and always wonder “what if…”.

I am glad to hear that you spoke to your priest about it. That is more important than posing the question here. He is certainly in a better position than we are to counsel you in light of your unique family dynamic. I pray that you can have peace, and for your sister’s healing.

 

[LaSainte]

I am so sad to read abou this. I am myself pregnant and just reading this made me want to weep.

I don’t think that you need to tell your sister that this is abortion and abortion is murder in those terms necessarily, but I might suggest saying something like the following:

“Are you sure that this is what you truly want to do? Because if you have this baby, I just want you to know that we will ALL celebrate her, cherish her, give her a baptism, snuggle and love her just as we would ANY baby for as long as God sees fit to allow us to do so, and that we will be there for you every step of he way.”

It is possible that she feels pressured to have an abortion because she doesn’t want to “inflict” any more pain on the family, her husband, etc. Maybe by saying something like this, you will give her permission to be the mommy to this baby that she truly wants to be in her heart.

My prayers go out to you.

 

[3DOCTORS]

I am so sad to read abou this. I am myself pregnant and just reading this made me want to weep.

I don’t think that you need to tell your sister that this is abortion and abortion is murder in those terms necessarily, but I might suggest saying something like the following:

“Are you sure that this is what you truly want to do? Because if you have this baby, I just want you to know that we will ALL celebrate her, cherish her, give her a baptism, snuggle and love her just as we would ANY baby for as long as God sees fit to allow us to do so, and that we will be there for you every step of he way.”

It is possible that she feels pressured to have an abortion because she doesn’t want to “inflict” any more pain on the family, her husband, etc. Maybe by saying something like this, you will give her permission to be the mommy to this baby that she truly wants to be in her heart.

My prayers go out to you.

This is such wisdom. I don’t know if anything I can add will help at this stage of the game, but I do pray for people in such situations simply because they are difficult situations.

OP, your frustration is understandable, and yet is there a way to wrap your mind and heart around the concept of “bittersweet” instead of joy vs. despair? The heartbreak of learning about the baby’s condition is the worst moment - unless by a miracle as some have suggested the diagnosis is mistaken, the grief is already there.

It seems, then, that the couple wants to abort the baby to put a quicker closure to the sad chapter - this, too, is understandable, but unfortunately even so it’s not enough to justify direct abortion. The search for hope and the surrender to God of making the choice to let the baby live would require great strength and courage - and there are resources available to assist with that that have only recently come to exist.

It would seem that a natural birth and a funeral service would be more emotionally easy to deal with in the long run, because there wouldn’t be the guilt attached. Even if your sister rejects the Church teaching, God’s laws are written in our hearts and emotional trauma can ensue. My cousin gave birth to a little boy who only lived a few days, and it was difficult. But by not aborting him (and there was pressure on her to do so), instead of a secret and tragic ending, at least there was time for the family to come together and pay their respects and give the mother their love and support.

Please don’t think that I say any of this to make you feel worse. I will remember you all in my prayers and hope that healing can come out of this situation. Even if your sister has had an abortion by now, I will still pray for healing for all of you. It is a tremendous pressure that she’s under and your family’s under. I beg you to resist the temptation to become embittered. May God bless you and keep you.

 

[Bluegoat]

I am so sad to read abou this. I am myself pregnant and just reading this made me want to weep.

I don’t think that you need to tell your sister that this is abortion and abortion is murder in those terms necessarily, but I might suggest saying something like the following:

“Are you sure that this is what you truly want to do? Because if you have this baby, I just want you to know that we will ALL celebrate her, cherish her, give her a baptism, snuggle and love her just as we would ANY baby for as long as God sees fit to allow us to do so, and that we will be there for you every step of he way.”

It is possible that she feels pressured to have an abortion because she doesn’t want to “inflict” any more pain on the family, her husband, etc. Maybe by saying something like this, you will give her permission to be the mommy to this baby that she truly wants to be in her heart.

My prayers go out to you.

Yes, this is very good advice. The thing is to just say -" are you sure this will really be better, because it may not make it easier for you, and you do not have to do this for the family."

In my experience, when people end these pregnancies they do not always, often even, get the closure they want. It doesn’t make the sadness better to terminate the pregnancy. People still ask about it, want to know what happened - it is still in the mother and father’s mind. The baby still has to be delivered. But there is nothing good to remember.

On the other hand, to be able to get to hold the baby even for a short time, to say hello and good-bye, to be able to say what happened openly if one wants, is worth a lot.

And it is not just Catholic or Christian families who find this, so it is not just a religious thing. Other families also find there is ultimately no way to escape the pain of these kind of diagnoses, but there can be real closure and peace with bringing the pregnancy to term.

 

[EvelynEVF]

LaSainte puts it beautifully. Frederica Mathewes-Green famously writes that women want an abortion the way an animal in a trap wants to gnaw its own leg off. I wonder if the mother in this case would be more willing to allow her baby to live if she knew, rock solidly, that she would be fully supported in that decision.

Locally we’ve had a baby who was diagnosed with a condition incompatible with life outside the womb. The whole community prayed for a week, and then another ultrasound showed nothing out of the ordinary. We don’t know whether God chose to heal the baby, or if the first ultrasound tech just got it wrong. Personally, I would expect that in such a situation, if I chose abortion, I would always be haunted by the “what if?” the diagnosis was a mistake.

 

[LaSainte]

LaSainte puts it beautifully. Frederica Mathewes-Green famously writes that women want an abortion the way an animal in a trap wants to gnaw its own leg off. I wonder if the mother in this case would be more willing to allow her baby to live if she knew, rock solidly, that she would be fully supported in that decision.

Locally we’ve had a baby who was diagnosed with a condition incompatible with life outside the womb. The whole community prayed for a week, and then another ultrasound showed nothing out of the ordinary. We don’t know whether God chose to heal the baby, or if the first ultrasound tech just got it wrong. Personally, I would expect that in such a situation, if I chose abortion, I would always be haunted by the “what if?” the diagnosis was a mistake.

Wow. What a story. And what a reason to let God be God who is the author of all life. I ask myself if I knew with 100% certainty that my baby would be killed in a car accident on the way home from the hospital (God forbid), would abortion be permissible? Of course not. The same goes with a condition such as this. Such a tragedy, but not up to us to try and control. Suffering can have value, even if we cannot see or understand it at the time.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I am even bothered by the terminology. I understand that in such a gut-wrenching, heart-breaking situation, we need to distance ourselves a little bit, to be able to cope, and words can help us do that. (And I am not making any judgment about the OP at all–he uses very common terms). This is not a “non-viable pregnancy.” This is a “baby” who may or may not be able to survive outside the womb, after birth,

I’m sure the mother knows that on a visceral level, and that makes it even worse, because she has to choose between having her heart be ripped out now, or later. And everybody and his dog probably has an opinion.

Another thought—American people seem to think that abortion will make a problem go away, like aborting a baby conceived due to rape. Stay with me; I’m not running down a rabbit trail! it’s almost like if the visible symptoms of the tragedy are gone, we are absolved of the responsibility of taking care of the remaining wounded, because they ought to be able to go back to normal. Baloney! This mom will need tons of support, for years, but just because she might not have a baby bump anymore, doesn’t mean she won’t know exactly when her due date is, and be a total basket case when it comes around.

Culturally, we use abortion to get ourselves off the hook, when we should be doing the hard work of loving.

 

[Binary]

I am even bothered by the terminology. I understand that in such a gut-wrenching, heart-breaking situation, we need to distance ourselves a little bit, to be able to cope, and words can help us do that. (And I am not making any judgment about the OP at all–he uses very common terms). This is not a “non-viable pregnancy.” This is a “baby” who may or may not be able to survive outside the womb, after birth,

I’m sure the mother knows that on a visceral level, and that makes it even worse, because she has to choose between having her heart be ripped out now, or later. And everybody and his dog probably has an opinion.

Another thought—American people seem to think that abortion will make a problem go away, like aborting a baby conceived due to rape. Stay with me; I’m not running down a rabbit trail! it’s almost like if the visible symptoms of the tragedy are gone, we are absolved of the responsibility of taking care of the remaining wounded, because they ought to be able to go back to normal. Baloney! This mom will need tons of support, for years, but just because she might not have a baby bump anymore, doesn’t mean she won’t know exactly when her due date is, and be a total basket case when it comes around.

Culturally, we use abortion to get ourselves off the hook, when we should be doing the hard work of loving.

If you had bothered to read the thread, you’d see that I saw my error. But hey, why do that, right?

 

[EvelynEVF]

Binary, I have read the whole thread, and I wasn’t addressing you in my most recent post. I’m musing critically about the whole USAmerican cultural milieu surrounding pregnancy/miscarriage/abortion/infant loss.

I apologize if I offended.

 

[meltzerboy]

Please keep my sister and her husband in your prayers. A few days ago they went to get a sonogram to determine the sex of their baby, and (I don’t have the exact details) tests revealed that the baby does not have a brain, or at least, so little brain matter that there is no possibility that it could survive outside the womb.

Sometime this week my sister is planning on having an operation to remove the fetus. I can’t imagine that this would qualify as an abortion or would otherwise be immoral. I doubt my sister cares much for what the church teaches anymore, but if she asks me about it, I’d like to give her an intelligent response on why she was justified in doing what she did. Can anyone help me out?

I wasn’t even going to comment at all, being I’m not Catholic. But I must at least express my sympathy to you, your sister and her husband at this heart-wrenching time. Your emotions (and undoubtedly your sister’s) are of course full of anguish. I am in no position to offer you advice, except to take the advice of a few other posters who provided links for you since some of these may be helpful. And also realize, hard as it may be, that everyone here is greatly touched by your situation. Some of the posters may express themselves in ways that don’t appear to be very kind and are not what you want to hear; but, believe me, we all care deeply and wish you G-d’s help in pulling through this terrible situation.