Restore the Triple Tiara?

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The Hammer:
The papal tiara is first mentioned in the account of the life of Pope Constantine (708-715) in the Liber Pontificalis. Here it is called a camelaucum, which was part of the Byzantine court dress. At this time, it was constructed more like a “papal cap” made of white cloth. Pope St. Gregory the Great (d. 604) was depicted in artwork wearing such a cap.

Sometime shortly after the ninth century, an ornamented circlet (or banding) was added to the base of the cap. Whether this circlet was for decoration or to represent a crown remains uncertain. Since the pope held not only spiritual authority over the whole Church but also temporal authority over the papal states, a crown would not be necessarily inappropriate. Coins with the image of Pope Sergius III (904-11) and Pope Benedict VII (974-983) depict these popes wearing a helmet-like-cap with such decoration.

catholicherald.com/saunders/05ws/ws050421.htm
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Excuse Us. Our point was that the triple tiara was not worn in the first 1000 years of Christianity, neither were the crown headgear of the other Patriarchs. Therefore, an appeal to the first 1000 years should have the pope wearing as the article says a camelaucum with a circlet.
 
The Hammer:
The Coptic Pope, Patriarch of Alexandria wears a Crown.
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Correct. But, as We said, NOT ALL the Patriarchs wear crowns- the Syriacs wear turbans/veils, the Armenians wear western style mitres, etc. Even among the Copts the crown mitrre is not worn frequently, more than often the lesser omophorion is wrapped around the head as a balleen.
 
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AJV:
We had got so used to your use of the royal pronoun that when We were shocked not to see it. :eek: Particularly in such a regal post. 🙂
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As we said, we are still practicing!
 
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AJV:
Which explains your impious prentensions to what is not yours.
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Silence, throne-bearer!

Lift and carry. That’s all you need to know. :tsktsk:

We have spoken.
 
After coming back from vacation, we would have to surmise that you’ve all had a little too much of the Christmas spirits! 😉 But seriously, I love the tone of the thread. It’s quite entertaining in so many ways!
 
Dr. Bombay:
Silence, throne-bearer!

Lift and carry. That’s all you need to know. :tsktsk:

We have spoken.
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Doc, we would bear your throne all the way to Heaven (we would also argue with you the whole way).
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Doc, we would bear your throne all the way to Heaven (we would also argue with you the whole way).
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Awwww…We are touched, Kirk.

That might be the only way We make it into heaven, with a steady corps of throne-bearers. By the time we (meaning Us and you) get there We are convinced We will have convinced you of the necessity of the silent Canon.

We can be very persuasive when We put Our mind to it. And with help from a touch of egg nog. :tiphat:
 
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JKirkLVNV:
We always enjoy your posts, Gottle, and the depth of your knowledge. So our propensity for funny looking hats can be traced to the Greeks?
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LOL & TY - I got most of my info from the 1911 Britannica article “Mitre”. More recently, I read that the Latin camelaucum is based on Byzantine court headgear - that would certainly make sense; the author of the Britannica article, and of the article “Tiara” was a Monsignor Braun.​

The formatting of the 1911 Britannica is foul, but the article is worth reading even so. The original article has some nice line-drawings of the mitre’s development, which the online edition does not reproduce.

Our fragile Ego is exceedingly pleased to see that our ruminations are not peculiar to Our Holiness - we consider that the conformity of all opinions to Ours, most necessary to Our Peace of Mind ##
 
The Hammer:
ALL the Eastern Patriarchs wear a CROWN which looks very much like a Tiara; there are minor differences between the different rites. The Pope, PATRIARCH of the WEST, MUST restore the most ancient and traditional symbol of his Patriarchy. Thus he will not look INFERRIOR to the eastern Patriarchs and Bishops when he is standing in their midst.
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Whatever happened to the Pope, “servant of servants” ? 🙂 😃 “Lord of Lords”, are We ?​

 
I stumbled across this excerpt last night in Chronicle of the Popes by P.G. Maxwell-Stuart and thought I would share it with all of you. It is from *Julius Exclusus * (1517/18), probably by Erasmus.

“[Julius arrives at the gates of Heaven and is accosted by St Peter who pretends not to recognize him.]

Peter: The silver key is vaguely familiar, but it is very different from those which Christ, the true shepherd of the Church, entrusted to me long ago. **As for that sumptuous crown of yours, why on earth should I recognize it? No barbarian tyrant ever dared wear such a thing as that, let alone anyone trying to get in here. ** (Emphasis mine.) I am certainly not impressed with the robe, because I always scorned gold and jewels…”

Pope Julius II turned the simple coronet into a richly jeweled work in the 16th century and even then the worldliness of the new tiara was questioned.

Peace,

George
 
George Waters:
I stumbled across this excerpt last night in Chronicle of the Popes by P.G. Maxwell-Stuart and thought I would share it with all of you. It is from *Julius Exclusus * (1517/18), probably by Erasmus.

“[Julius arrives at the gates of Heaven and is accosted by St Peter who pretends not to recognize him.]

Peter: *The silver key is vaguely familiar, but it is very different from those which Christ, the true shepherd of the Church, entrusted to me long ago. **As for that sumptuous crown of yours, why on earth should I recognize it? No barbarian tyrant ever dared wear such a thing as that, let alone anyone trying to get in here. *** (Emphasis mine.) I am certainly not impressed with the robe, because I always scorned gold and jewels…”
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OUCH!

Though the fact that it was written by Erasmus…
 
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AJV:
OUCH!

Though the fact that it was written by Erasmus…
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Yeah, I know, but that is “probably by Erasmus”. I am sure the sentiment was shared.

Peace,

George
 
The Hammer:
Isn’t the Pope talking to the Orthodox about restoring communion and harkining back to the first 1000 years of Christianity… Do u want the Pope to look OUT OF PLACE among the ancient (and not so ancient) patriarchates? Isn’t he the “Bishop of bishops” as Tertullian calls him? It is NOT JUST for looks. It has SYMBOLIC meaning. The Triple Tiara symbolises the Bishop of Rome’s 3 Powers (which have not changed): To Teach, Goven and Sanctify. It also reminds us of the CROWN we will receive from Christ at the end of time. Also alludes to the 12 CROWNS for the 12 Apostles that Christ promised them.

Let us NOT be MINIMILISTS and so austere as to deprive the VICAR of Christ who RULES Christ KINGDOM on EARTH from his CROWN!
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See the following link:newadvent.org/cathen/14714c.htm

Here, they clearly state that the triregnum was never used as a litrugical head covering, so it isn’t the equivalent of the Easter bishops’ mitres at all.
 
I think this is rediculous. Should we make the Pope, the bishops, priests etc. all just wear sackcloth so they can get back to how the “early Church did it”?

All the splendor and art gives glory to God. Remember when the woman annointed Christ with expensive perfume? Did he agree with the Apostles that it should have been sold and the money given to the poor? Nope.

The papal tiara doesn’t honor the man, it honors the office. So do the other vestments. All the money and effort we put (or should put) into beautiful Churches and nice vestments are for God’s glory. We also should be getting back into the practice of kissing the bishop’s ring, and rising when a priest enters the room. Not just to honor the person, but give due honor to the office.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
See the following link:newadvent.org/cathen/14714c.htm

Here, they clearly state that the triregnum was never used as a litrugical head covering, so it isn’t the equivalent of the Easter bishops’ mitres at all.
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Dunno about that. It is definitely not liturgical in the latin rite but look at this photo

Bl. John XXIII seems to be celebrating a Byzantine Liturgy wearing a tiara. Also note the interesting mixture of vestments.
 
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thistle:
That doesn’t answer my question “What useful purpose would it serve?”.
If there was one it would have been restored a long time ago!
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Something does not need to have a useful purpose in order to be meaningful.
 
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