Restoring Tradition

[otjm]

***At the tender age of 65 and still counting; I have experienced both. One with Awe and Wonder; one with just wonder

However I’m not sure of the accuracy of the highlighted*** comment. While this number reflects accurately fallen away Catholics; I have seen no evidence that they ALL or for that matter even MOST are from the Pre-Vatican II erea?

The advice to actively listen to those of us who God granted the opportunity to know both, is good advice.

Love and payers,
Pat

Not sure which post you were referring to, which said that 70% of pre-Vatican 2 Catholics quit attending Mass. But according to research by CARA, it is the pre-Vatican 2 Catholics who attend weekly in the largest numbers:

Pre Vatican 2: 52% attend weekly
Vatican 2: 38% attend weekly
Post Vatican 2 (31 - 43): 22% attend weekly
Post Vatican 2 (18 - 30): 21% attend weekly

So whatever source the poster you quoted used is suspect.

 

[qui_est_ce]

StAnastasia;6596624:

Under the circumstances it was a reasonable response. If the humor fell flat, mea culpa.

The humor didn’t fall flat, it was the presumption of your ignorance that fell flat.

 

[mick321]

mick321;6596669:

The humor didn’t fall flat, it was the presumption of your ignorance that fell flat.

Very good.

If you know the difference between a Priest, a Lay Catholic, a Eucharistic Minister, and an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, would you please be so kind as to educate TWP and StAnastasia OFFLINE and allow this thread be used for the discussion of Restoring Tradition.

Happy Holidays.

 

[Califman831]

*Extraordinary *Minister of the Eucharist is the correct term, and could explain the confusion.

They never should have gone with the special title period.

 

[grannymh]

Would you mind telling me how I am scary? All I said was the noise of children isn’t reverent.

I think you are scary because you honor Catholic Doctrine and don’t belittle the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

Liturgical issues aside, as I wander around CAF, I’m finding that many doctrines need to be restored from the pulpit and made common knowledge among the laity. For example, it is not enough to restore the traditional Latin Mass, it is also necessary to restore the word Transubstantiation.

Blessings,
granny

These two websites contain TV ads about Catholicism. The first is from one of the Dioceses which is using them. The second is general information.

 

[rwoehmke]

It took me a whole afternoon to read through this thread and its kind of discouraging to see how dissatisfied many are with our Church. I have a son in that situation and I pray daily for him to be able to see past the personalities and quirks to the beauty that is our Church. Having been a Catholic for seventy some years, been an Altar Boy, Reader, Extraordinary Minister, Charismatic Catholic for a while, attended Jesuit silent retreats for over thirty years and more, it has been a wonderful experience. I loved the changes wrought during and after Vatican II and am convinced that every age in our Church has had its problems, but the barque of Peter sails serenely on through every stormlet. My Baptist grandchildren(another son of my six married outside the Church) have a little song which says a lot. “I’m so happy, I’m so happy cause I have Jesus in my heart.” In my parish it is not the pre-Vatican II Catholics who have drifted away, but rather the younger ones. I don’t think they know what a wonderful thing God has given us, whether pre, during, or post Vatican II. Whether OF or EF, It is a blessing.

 

[StAnastasia]

It took me a whole afternoon to read through this thread and its kind of discouraging to see how dissatisfied many are with our Church. I have a son in that situation and I pray daily for him to be able to see past the personalities and quirks to the beauty that is our Church. Having been a Catholic for seventy some years, been an Altar Boy, Reader, Extraordinary Minister, Charismatic Catholic for a while, attended Jesuit silent retreats for over thirty years and more, it has been a wonderful experience. I loved the changes wrought during and after Vatican II and am convinced that every age in our Church has had its problems, but the barque of Peter sails serenely on through every stormlet. My Baptist grandchildren(another son of my six married outside the Church) have a little song which says a lot. “I’m so happy, I’m so happy cause I have Jesus in my heart.” In my parish it is not the pre-Vatican II Catholics who have drifted away, but rather the younger ones. I don’t think they know what a wonderful thing God has given us, whether pre, during, or post Vatican II. Whether OF or EF, It is a blessing.

A wonderful post, rwoehmke!

 

[wisdomseeker]

wisdomseeker;6596291:

I’m not sure what you are asking by “is there sins according to what you believe?”

Can you please rephrase that in English? I’d like to reply.

i dont mean for you to get into others business, but if you have lesbians and gays couples in your Parish and you see them take Holy Communion or avoid seeing them taking Communion and are a part of it, it may be a problem here.

 

[wisdomseeker]

One way to discern the wolves is to ask if there were two, real, sole parents (aka Adam and Eve) of the human species.

now and days, people see things in the Bible that it was never there before. i wont be surprise if they see something different there.

in my Parish, this lady told me that women have the right to go to the Tabernacle because women went into the tomb of Jesus. that is why is so scary to read the Bible without the Tradition passed on to us. People begin to read for themselves, all of a suddenly a total different theology begins to emerge.
i guess they dont know it was customary for women to take spices to the body in the tombs. that didnt give them the right to be priests in the land of Israel. it was not discrimination, it is God’s decision. today, it is still God’s decision. it is not a right for anyone to claim anything from God.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Perhaps you live in a cult, or an assisted living facility. I work with children at our school, and our Masses are packed with kids. Merriam Webster online defines "reverence as “profound adoring awed respect.” If children praying and adoring in their own way is not reverence, I don’t know what is. Reverence is not manifested in a kindergarten class the same way it is in in an assisted living facility.

Ok, first of all you changed what you said there. You originally said children making happy noises or something like that.

And reverence primarily refers to the Mass itself, not people in the background. It’s good if children pray during Mass, but that doesn’t make the Mass itself reverent.

 

[StAnastasia]

StAnastasia;6596314:

i dont mean for you to get into others business, but if you have lesbians and gays couples in your Parish and you see them take Holy Communion or avoid seeing them taking Communion and are a part of it, it may be a problem here.

As I don’t run my own Inquisition, I leave that up to the priests and their consciences. They know who the couples are.

 

[brap]

… it is not the pre-Vatican II Catholics who have drifted away, but rather the younger ones. I don’t think they know what a wonderful thing God has given us, whether pre, during, or post Vatican II. Whether OF or EF, It is a blessing.

I agree (from my limited observation).

 

[brap]

Originally Posted by **brap **
This is something a priest should NEVER say in public. It goes against the teachings of the Church and something that Rome has addressed over and over. He may believe it is a good thing and he may work toward that end but as a spiritual leader of Catholics he is doing himself and the Church a disservice.

work toward that end?

it sound quite disonest to me? at least if he says publicly, we will know who the wolves are. if you follow him and his ideas, you do it knowingly. but those who do not go for that, at least they have a chance to just leave.

now and days, it takes discernement to know who the wolves are. many of them are working quietly towards dismantling the Church of our Lord. but not impossible to identify them. the Lord said: my sheep will know my voice. this is very profound and meanifull.

I am sure that priests have the right to express themselves theologically and work toward their beliefs (that is how the Church has always worked). I will assume these are learned men who feel they have some sound theological reason to present their arguments for change. I am not saying they are right or wrong.

 

[StAnastasia]

I am sure that priests have the right to express themselves theologically and work toward their beliefs (that is how the Church has always worked). I will assume these are learned men who feel they have some sound theological reason to present their arguments for change.

I think you are correct. There are many priests who have sound theological reason for change. Change will come, in God’s own time, as new traditions are incorporated into old… There was a time when black people were not ordained to the priesthood:

rootsweb.ancestry.com/~momonroe/tolton.htm

 

[qui_est_ce]

wisdomseeker;6597363:

As I don’t run my own Inquisition, I leave that up to the priests and their consciences. They know who the couples are.

For someone who is so quick to jump on other’s spelling errors, maybe you could review your posts and bone up on formatting. Your posts can cause confusion.

The above quote is not Wisdom’s.

 

[grannymh]

I think you are correct. There are many priests who have sound theological reason for change. Change will come, in God’s own time, as new traditions are incorporated into old… There was a time when black people were not ordained to the priesthood:

rootsweb.ancestry.com/~momonroe/tolton.htm

Did you know that public revelation regarding Catholicism is closed?
Do you understand the purpose of private revelvation and its guidelines?

 

[grannymh]

I am sure that priests have the right to express themselves theologically and work toward their beliefs (that is how the Church has always worked). I will assume these are learned men who feel they have some sound theological reason to present their arguments for change. I am not saying they are right or wrong.

Please. What type of changes are you referring to?

 

[StAnastasia]

Did you know that public revelation regarding Catholicism is closed?

Was that in 1950?

 

[tpw]

Probably not the wisest thing for the priest to say during a public liturgy of any sort. But 's interesting that the assembly responded the way that it did. There is after all something called the “sense of the faithful” which plays a role in ecclesial decision-making.

But who knows? The question has been “closed” for now. But questions especially if they are legitimate have a way of re-appearing again and again. The question will continue to be discussed among theologians in their realms of scholarship…

 

[tpw]

LaFebre excommunicated himself by ordaining schismatic bishops. It remains to be seen if Benedict’s generous act of re-inviting them back into the Roman fold bears any cooperation on their part. If they continue to deny the legitimacy of the Second Vatican Council, it will be interesting to see what happens.

Your suggestion that the Second Vatican Council was somehow the “work of the devil”… If that is true you would imply that those who were engaged in it, must also be the devil’s handmaidens. By extension JPII and Benedict who were both deeply involved should be held suspect. True, you didn’t say it, but by suggesting the entire council was somehow demonic, your implication follows.

Re: JPII’s convening of the Assisi gathering in 1986… Ratzinger was very suspicious of the event believing that it contributed to syncretism. But as JP II qualifed it as "religious people coming together to pray. Praying together is one heckuva alot better than not-speaking to each other or encouraging violence against each other, no? One also must be mindful that “the Holy Spirit moves in ways which we don’t understand”. Who’s to say the Holy Spirit wasn’t active in such an event?

Re: the sex abuse matter. JPII was coming out of a Polish context. During Soviet control the USSR regularly made allegations about sexual misconduct of the clergy as a way to drive a wedge between Poles and the Church. He assumed - for much to long unfortunately - that the allegations in the US were of the same caliber.

But this too will be a moment of grace for the church… The injured parties, the lawsuits, the bad press will bring a healing impact on the Church and perhaps society at large. If only the news media would focus on the breadth of sex abuse in society as a whole, we would really make great strides…