Resurrection? Why?

[simplynoone]

*Luke 16:19-31 Particularly the last verse which says, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets (the Law and testimonies Isaiah 8:20), neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

I am a HUGE fan of the Law of God and I must admit that I see very little of it is regarded in Catholism. Now, remember that the Law of God is NOT just the Mosaic Law but the Natural Laws as well… after, God is the Creator, no?

So… here, even in the NT by Jesus’ own admission, man has all they need in the Law of God (which includes the Natural Laws) and in the testimonies to see the Truth.

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? Where is he? 2,000 years and what is it that you have learned from all of this? Anything? If you still believe in the supernatural resurrection of Jesus, why? Again, to what benefit is it to you?

Thanks for any who are willing to help me understand this perspective that I just can not seem to grasp! *

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Jesus’ resurrection proves to us that there is life after death.

 

[Eucharisted]

In taking on flesh, God assumed to Himself all mankind - every human person. The union of God and man is Jesus Christ. Because Jesus, in His Humanity, is all humanity, He is the New Adam, just as Adam held all humanity within himself as the father of the human race.

Jesus said, “I am the resurrection.” He is the resurrection because in Him we have been resurrected, i.e., by raising His Humanity from death, He has guareteed the resurrection of the dead. In Him, the New Adam, mankind has risen - and man’s resurrection is on Judgment Day. He who is God has trascended time to guarentee the resurrection of the dead, which will occur on Judgment Day, while His own resurrction took place three days after His death.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

*Luke 16:19-31 Particularly the last verse which says, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets (the Law and testimonies Isaiah 8:20), neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” *

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

*I am a HUGE fan of the Law of God and I must admit that I see very little of it is regarded in Catholism. Now, remember that the Law of God is NOT just the Mosaic Law but the Natural Laws as well… after, God is the Creator, no? *

*So… here, even in the NT by Jesus’ own admission, man has all they need in the Law of God (which includes the Natural Laws) and in the testimonies to see the Truth. *

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good…

He says something a bit different from that ​

so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? Where is he? 2,000 years and what is it that you have learned from all of this? Anything? If you still believe in the supernatural resurrection of Jesus, why? Again, to what benefit is it to you?

*Thanks for any who are willing to help me understand this perspective that I just can not seem to grasp! *

The purpose of the Resurrection of Christ was to bring in the new life of the new age of the Reign of God. His Resurrection, is the exemplar & cause of the resurrection of those who belong to Him.​

Reading N.T. Wright should help - this:

• [http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Jesus_Resurrection.htm (http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Jesus_Resurrection.htm)

and

• [The Church must stop trivialising Easter (The Times & The Sunday Times)

and

• [www.ntwrightpage.com (http://www.ntwrightpage.com)

generally, should help

 

[Among_Strangers]

Now if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 1 Cor. 15:12-14 RSV-CE

 

[M0nkey]

I am a HUGE fan of the Law of God and I must admit that I see very little of it is regarded in Catholism.

Can you expand on that a bit? We could help there as well, I think.

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? Where is he? 2,000 years and what is it that you have learned from all of this? Anything? If you still believe in the supernatural resurrection of Jesus, why? Again, to what benefit is it to you?

His resurrection assures our hope of life everlasting, something to be marvelled, your soul is immortal meaning that is meant to live in communion with God forever. You may find the one true living God in any tabernacle at any catholic church; seek Him, and you’ll find Him through the eyes of faith.

 

[NDfan]

*Luke 16:19-31 Particularly the last verse which says, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets (the Law and testimonies Isaiah 8:20), neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

I am a HUGE fan of the Law of God and I must admit that I see very little of it is regarded in Catholism. Now, remember that the Law of God is NOT just the Mosaic Law but the Natural Laws as well… after, God is the Creator, no?

So… here, even in the NT by Jesus’ own admission, man has all they need in the Law of God (which includes the Natural Laws) and in the testimonies to see the Truth.

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? Where is he? 2,000 years and what is it that you have learned from all of this? Anything? If you still believe in the supernatural resurrection of Jesus, why? Again, to what benefit is it to you?

Thanks for any who are willing to help me understand this perspective that I just can not seem to grasp! *

The wages of sin is death for all of us. Jesus showed that death can be conquered and by dying for our sins we now can have eternal life with GOD. Which by the way is where Jesus is.

 

[FCEGM]

*Luke 16:19-31 Particularly the last verse which says, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets (the Law and testimonies Isaiah 8:20), neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

I am a HUGE fan of the Law of God and I must admit that I see very little of it is regarded in Catholism. Now, remember that the Law of God is NOT just the Mosaic Law but the Natural Laws as well… after, God is the Creator, no?

So… here, even in the NT by Jesus’ own admission, man has all they need in the Law of God (which includes the Natural Laws) and in the testimonies to see the Truth.

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? *

You are misunderstanding the Resurrection of the Lord. Unlike Lazarus whom the Lord brought back to life (and Lazarus died again), Jesus’ body is not a resussitated corpse, but a body transfigured in glory that can no longer die. The parable you reference is true: If He had simply returned to life a la Lazarus, then that would not brought about the salvation of mankind. But with His Resurrection in glory, all Christians have the hope that we, too, if obedient to the grace of Sonship He bestows, will have bodies no longer subject to sin and death, but living eternally in the Presence of God in glory, since we are creatures of both body and spirit.

 

[simplynoone]

Jesus’ resurrection proves to us that there is life after death.

*How so? I being honest in my questioning… how does this prove that there is life after death for any of us? None of us saw him die, testified to his remaining in the tomb (dead) for 3 days/nights, and then saw him come back to life. *
**
To accept this as a fact is literally to against our understanding of life/death… Anyone that I have known that has died has stayed dead… NONE of them have ever come back to life. It is not natural. It is literally to buy into something based ONLY on blind faith… and if you buy into this resurrection as it has been taught, then you can not deny all the other claims of demigods having resurrected from being dead for 3 days/nights as well… else, where are you are basing this biased belief that Jesus did and the others did not as well? It is not in the Tanakh for such a resurrection was never spoken of.

 

[simplynoone]

In taking on flesh, God assumed to Himself all mankind - every human person. The union of God and man is Jesus Christ. Because Jesus, in His Humanity, is all humanity, He is the New Adam, just as Adam held all humanity within himself as the father of the human race.

This view of yours spoken above is not in the Tanakh (what is known as the Old Testament… the foundation for which the NT claims to be grounded in)… where is this belief originating from? I can only find such things in mythologies… not in the Tanakh.

Jesus said, “I am the resurrection.” He is the resurrection because in Him we have been resurrected, i.e., by raising His Humanity from death, He has guareteed the resurrection of the dead. In Him, the New Adam, mankind has risen - and man’s resurrection is on Judgment Day. He who is God has trascended time to guarentee the resurrection of the dead, which will occur on Judgment Day, while His own resurrction took place three days after His death.

*The understanding that I have gained from the foundation that Christianity is claiming says that God is the God of the Living… the judgments of God occur within this Life and they enlighten all those who accept them. The final judgment Day that is spoken of in the NT is not anything that I can find in the Tanakh… only in the NT which over half of can not even be claimed to be grounded in the Tanakh… where did these ideas actually come from? *

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

*How so? I being honest in my questioning… how does this prove that there is life after death for any of us? None of us saw him die, testified to his remaining in the tomb (dead) for 3 days/nights, and then saw him come back to life. *
**
*To accept this as a fact is literally to against our understanding of life/death… *

To accept this as a fact is to understand that prophecy has been fulfilled. Israel was the witness to this. God was born from a virgin, suffered and died, and rose again. Israel waited for centuries for this to happen. And it did - proving that the story of Jesus is divine because only God who is above time can inspire prophecy.

 

[simplynoone]

Can you expand on that a bit? We could help there as well, I think.

Good question… truly. Maybe this will help us all to understand where it is each other are coming from. I believe that the Laws of God are inferred if not outright spoken in the Torah.

Let’s take for instance “death.” … there are two kinds of death, 1. death of our innocence and 2. physical death.

We know from the story of Adam and the woman that the physical death was never a question… how? Because the “punishment” God said would incur for eating of the tree of knowledge was that in that day, they would die. They did not die physically obviously… so the physical death was quite natural and already something that was in place and never up for adjustments.

But what death did occur then? That would be death to their state of ignorance… from then on, they would have to struggle to find the ways of God. They no longer were innocent and thus, they would need to gain knowledge to find God again. In the Tanakh, any time it speaks of resurrection, this is the type of resurrection it is speaking of… and yet in the NT, the resurrection is the type of resurrection that is spoken of in mythologies… that being physical.

This is why I love the Laws of God (found in the Torah), for it is the tool needed to decipher the truth from the lies… thus, in essence, the tools for resurrecting from a state of ignorance to a state of awareness. See what I mean?

His resurrection assures our hope of life everlasting, something to be marvelled, your soul is immortal meaning that is meant to live in communion with God forever. You may find the one true living God in any tabernacle at any catholic church; seek Him, and you’ll find Him through the eyes of faith.

I do not think that most have thought out life everlasting very well. that is a VERY longer than the longest of times that ever have or could exist… what are you to do with all of that everlasting life? Many of the greatest minds have gone insane and committed suicide at even trying to comprehend the infinity… what makes so many of you hope to gain the status of God? I do not understand how most of you complain about this (which is evident in your claims of “hope”) and yet you would want to exist for all of eternity in such a void that is infinity?

This is His creation and yet with so many unsatisfied that they seek something else… what else are you hoping for if you are not able to grasp that Life is about US learning and not about His “failures?”

 

[simplynoone]

*How so? I am being honest in my questioning… how does this prove that there is life after death for any of us? None of us saw him die, testified to his remaining in the tomb (dead) for 3 days/nights, and then saw him come back to life. *
**
To accept this as a fact is literally to against our understanding of life/death… Anyone that I have known that has died has stayed dead… NONE of them have ever come back to life. It is not natural. It is literally to buy into something based ONLY on blind faith… and if you buy into this resurrection as it has been taught, then you can not deny all the other claims of demigods having resurrected from being dead for 3 days/nights as well… else, where are you are basing this biased belief that Jesus did and the others did not as well? It is not in the Tanakh for such a resurrection was never spoken of.

 

[simplynoone]

The wages of sin is death for all of us. Jesus showed that death can be conquered and by dying for our sins we now can have eternal life with GOD. Which by the way is where Jesus is.

*Again though, I am not trying to be rude, but how did Jesus show this to you any better than the other demigods who did the same according to mythologies. I assure you, this view of Jesus was not prophesied in the Tanakh… else, show me where please. *

 

[simplynoone]

You are misunderstanding the Resurrection of the Lord. Unlike Lazarus whom the Lord brought back to life (and Lazarus died again), Jesus’ body is not a resussitated corpse, but a body transfigured in glory that can no longer die.

*It appears to me that either you are saying: *
1. Lazarus was resuscitated (meaning he was not ACTUALLY dead)
*or *
*2. That Jesus brought a man back to life and though Jesus had resurrected already before Lazarus dies again and although according to the NT, hundreds of dead men rose from the dead when Jesus died, Lazarus still died a second time. How does this fit in with the claim in the NT that it is appointed until man **once **to die and after this the judgment (found in Hebrews 9, I believe)? *
**
*Do you mind explaining this to me please? *

The parable you reference is true: If He had simply returned to life a la Lazarus, then that would not brought about the salvation of mankind. But with His Resurrection in glory, all Christians have the hope that we, too, if obedient to the grace of Sonship He bestows, will have bodies no longer subject to sin and death, but living eternally in the Presence of God in glory, since we are creatures of both body and spirit.

According to the NT accounts, Jesus, after the crucifixion was not in a new glorified body… he was still in a body that is subject to the needs that our bodies are even now subjected to and in fact, he still had his wounds… something is not adding up here to me. Do you think that you will still have the scars that you have now? Do you think this glorified body will still be subject to the needs, such as food, water, etc. that your body is dependant upon now? Jesus’ was. What is the difference between the body you have now and the one you are perceiving that you will have in its “glorified” state (as you put it)?

 

[simplynoone]

To accept this as a fact is to understand that prophecy has been fulfilled. Israel was the witness to this. God was born from a virgin, suffered and died, and rose again. Israel waited for centuries for this to happen. And it did - proving that the story of Jesus is divine because only God who is above time can inspire prophecy.

*True… given that the testimonies were established and the Law written on the hearts of the Jewish, why is it do you think that they deny these things as being the fulfillment of prophecies. I have to say that I do see they are correct in that these things are not spoken of in the Tanakh. Surely God knew what He was doing by given establishing the Word with them and that they do not recognize these things that Christians claim happen (which honestly, are closer to mythologies than they are to what is written in the so called “Old Testament”)… well, don’t any of you ever pause to wonder if the Church is the one to have misunderstood the prophecies written BY the Jewish People? It is possible, no? *

 

[M0nkey]

Okay, I see the overall thrust, I’ll try to explain. There were over five hundred people who gave witness to the resurrection, which would make this a historical event. Remember these were mostly martyrs whose testimony are written across first century Judea. Unless these early believers decided to get together one day and lie, it’s their testimony against your speculation. In a court of law, as an example, you have to have at least one witness to corroborate that the perpetrator is guilty of the crime; how more credulous can it be when there are over five hundred eye witnesses? You can claim mythological origins for this, but it does have it’s historical accuracies which took place in space and time. Now, the “old testament” prophecies are deeply grounded on God’s promise of a messiah that will come and establish a kingdom that will not be destroyed (Dan. 7:13-14). This is the promise God made to David, that from his body will come the anointed one, that he will lead his people into the new Jerusalem and establish and ever-lasting kingdom. Well, if you read the gospel according to Matthew, the first thing the evangelist does is to point out that the messiah has come from the line of David and out of the tribe of Judah, that this is the promise God has made and has been fulfilled in the person of Jesus. We therefore recognize that Jesus is Lord, and not only that but God made flesh, whose kingdom will live forever. To tackle your question regarding life eternal; no one knows for sure what is to come. What God has revealed in the second person of the blessed trinity, Jesus, is that there is Life, and that God has made it known throughout the whole world through the resurrection of His Son. Humans are embodied beings, the resurrection of the dead capitulates the final chapter in the story of God’s plan for redemption. Hope that makes sense, let me know if you have further questions.

 

[simplynoone]

Okay, I see the overall thrust, I’ll try to explain. There were over five hundred people who gave witness to the resurrection, which would make this a historical event. Remember these were mostly martyrs whose testimony are written across first century Judea. Unless these early believers decided to get together one day and lie, it’s their testimony against your speculation. In a court of law, as an example, you have to have at least one witness to corroborate that the perpetrator is guilty of the crime; how more credulous can it be when there are over five hundred eye witnesses?

Where is it that their testimonies can be found? Do you have names of the 500 so that I can research this myself? And the court of Law example is hardly convincing since… well, the 500 are not alive to testify and I was not around when they supposedly came out of their tombs… You would think that such an account would have drawn more attention not only in secular accounts, but in the gospels as well, no? surely there were a lot of average people who wrote about this truly strange event… do we have their testimonies as well?

You can claim mythological origins for this, but it does have it’s historical accuracies which took place in space and time. Now, the “old testament” prophecies are deeply grounded on God’s promise of a messiah that will come and establish a kingdom that will not be destroyed (Dan. 7:13-14). This is the promise God made to David, that from his body will come the anointed one, that he will lead his people into the new Jerusalem and establish and ever-lasting kingdom. Well, if you read the gospel according to Matthew, the first thing the evangelist does is to point out that the messiah has come from the line of David and out of the tribe of Judah, that this is the promise God has made and has been fulfilled in the person of Jesus. We therefore recognize that Jesus is Lord, and not only that but God made flesh, whose kingdom will live forever. To tackle your question regarding life eternal; no one knows for sure what is to come. What God has revealed in the second person of the blessed trinity, Jesus, is that there is Life, and that God has made it known throughout the whole world through the resurrection of His Son. Humans are embodied beings, the resurrection of the dead capitulates the final chapter in the story of God’s plan for redemption. Hope that makes sense, let me know if you have further questions.

*I do actually. And not for the sake of merely being impossible, but really in Isaiah, it is said that God declared the end FROM the beginning and that His counsel will stand. In Amos 3:7, it is said that God will do nothing outside of what is declared by servants, the prophets (written as the testimonies in the Tanakh) and in Malachi 3:6, The LORD Himself is clear that He will not change.

Given these and many more promises and declarations that all these things are written as they were meant to be and that it will not change, where is the name Jesus found being declared as God, the Son of God, the Messiah, the Saviour, and that he was to come, die and be resurrected again… where is he declared as being such in the beginning… that being in the Tanakh?

Thank you! *

 

[Finrock]

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? Where is he? 2,000 years and what is it that you have learned from all of this? Anything? If you still believe in the supernatural resurrection of Jesus, why? Again, to what benefit is it to you?

Thanks for any who are willing to help me understand this perspective that I just can not seem to grasp!

Good afternoon simplynoone! I’m happy to make your acquaintance.

It seems from reading your posts that there are at least two motives for your posts. If I’m wrong, please let me know. In your first post you seem to want to understand why Christians believe in the resurrection of Jesus and what benefit is it for us to believe in it or why it is necessary. In subsequent posts, it seems that you are disputing the whole idea of Jesus being resurrected. Believing in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a matter of faith and I cannot prove to you that it really occurred. My testimony of the resurrection of Jesus did not come from me reasoning it out from the scriptures. I know that Jesus was resurrected because the Holy Spirit has borne witness of this fact to me. I mention this because I want you to understand that I don’t intend to try and prove that Jesus was resurrected via the scriptures. Personally, I think this is a futile venture. I will, however, share with you my understanding of the resurrection and why it matters to me and what is so important about it, coming from the perspective of a Latter-day Saint (a.k.a. Mormon).

Unlike most of the rest of Christianity, us LDS Christians aren’t solely reliant on the Bible to witness of Jesus Christ and His work for us. We have the Book of Mormon that also testifies that Jesus was indeed the Messiah and that He did rise from the dead. Now, for someone who doesn’t believe in the Book of Mormon this is probably meaningless. Nonetheless, from an LDS perspective, we have another record written by ancient people who saw and witnessed the resurrected Savior. It is unequivocally the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that Jesus Christ is the promised Messiah, that He atoned for our sins, that He suffered and died, and then was resurrected from the dead with a perfect and glorified body.

In order to explain why the resurrection is significant from an LDS point-of-view, I must first quickly touch on a few major doctrinal points. First, it is important to understand that from an LDS perspective, God’s “…work and [His] glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Immortality is having a glorified, resurrected body that does not die. Eternal life means having the type of life God has. This means that everything God has done, has been done to fulfill His goal of bringing about our immortality and our eternal life. We believe that prior to earth life, all of us on earth existed with Heavenly Father in Heaven as spirits. At this point I think it is important to understand that the LDS church teaches that Heavenly Father has a glorified body of flesh and bone. What this means is that having a body is a godly attribute, therefore it is desirable. As spirits in our pre-Earth life, we did not have a body as God did. So, because God wants us to have immortality and eternal life, God created the earth for us so that we could continue to progress and also so that we could obtain a body just as He has a body.

Now, coming from the LDS perspective, I believe it becomes more clear why the resurrection was desirable and necessary to fulfilling God’s plan for us. In one of our scriptures we learn that both spirit and element are eternal and that in order for a person to experience a fulness of joy, both spirit and element must be inseparably connected (D&C 93:33). If one of our purposes in mortality is to obtain bodies for our spirits and if the physical body and spirit inseparably connected receive a fulness of joy, then it is desirable for us that we can be resurrected. So, the resurrection fulfills God’s purposes by making immortality possible for us. It also makes it possible for us to be able to return to Heavenly Father and to have eternal life, which is to have the type of life God has. Without the resurrection God’s desires for us would not be fulfilled. Hence the purpose and the reason for the resurrection.

Others undoubtedly will disagree with the LDS understanding of things, however, this is what the LDS church teaches and believes and it is the reason why we see the resurrection as being significant and desirable for us. Although I doubt this has helped you to believe in the resurrection, hopefully this post has been helpful in atleast understanding why it is important to the members of the LDS church.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[M0nkey]

Where is it that their testimonies can be found?

That is given by the blood of the martyrs who died for the risen one. If you read the new testament, you will find their names along with others whose names are not mentioned there. Think if you were a first century Jew, I hardly think I would give my life for a fabrication. Let’s say for example that the eye witness dies and the culprit is still in prison, does that mean we should vindicate the killer and let he or she go? This testimony is as true today as it was over two thousand years ago.

The LORD Himself is clear that He will not change.

Therein lies the mystery of the Incarnation, Catholic Christians do not believe that God wills or can change, the hypostatic union of the God-man is based on His dual nature – one of true God and true man – so while the physical body did undergo certain change the divine nature remained. Therefore the law of the prophets remains, keep in mind, the law is not abolished by faith in Christ Jesus, but *fulfilled *in Him. ‘For the Son of man also came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as ransom for many’ (Mk. 10.45). I particularly recommend picking up the gospel of Matthew and giving it a careful read, it is particularly written for people who are very familiar with the books of the law. I’d rather enjoy this conversation, so we can keep it going.