Resurrection? Why?

[ryanoneil]

If the words of the Tanakh are words of Life, then why is death the language so many use to explain the words of Life?

One who is resurrected to Life must testify to Life, no?

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying about death. Yes there is spiritual death and resurrection in the life we are given, but there is also spiritual death and resurrection in eternity.

The words of the Tanakh point to the Christ who is the Word that was with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2). Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me (John 14:6).

Not only did Jesus come to resurrect the dead in our earthly life, but he also came to destroy deaths eternal hold on mankind, by rising from the dead (opening the way to all of us). In other words he descended to the dead and preached to souls that he was going to rise, then ascend to the Father, and take them with.

 

[ryanoneil]

Imagine being resurrected spiritually to Life … only to find that you are living among the dead. That does become a desperate cry of the heart to be resurrected physically to the Land of the Living. To be among those who are living in the Light of Truth.

But, I can understand why it is this way, for as Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

The above has given a whole new meaning of “give us this day our daily bread” to me as well and in fact, God has done just this for me in my own personal life. That daily bread is like nourishment to my soul.

It is why salvation is of the Jews and why they are of such importance to us in the world… and furthermore, why they should be given their land wholly, for its purpose is the blessing of all of us.

Hi simplynoone! I’ve had a number of experiences where God has resurrected me spiritually - Praise God! One such experience was realizing that God’s word is more than words in a book, as you have mentioned that his is a living word. I also came to believe that Jesus IS the word of God. Jesus also revealed that he, being the word, is our daily bread.

Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’" So Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. (John 6:31-35)

So yes, salvation is of the Jews.

God IS Life and thus, anyone having breath in their lungs is not “cut off” from God Isa 45:14,15… only the awareness and for purpose. (learning to live by the word that proceedeth from the mouth of God… proverbs 2:1-7 holds the keys for this).

In addition to believing that Jesus is the word of God, we Catholics believe the breath of God is the Holy Spirit, who procedes from the Father and the Son.

To whomever it is speaking directly to, it does; else Jesus would not have thought it important to say, “Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”

Jesus also said “The Father and I are one.” (John 10:30) Here he asserts their unity and reveals that his words and deeds are the words and deeds of God.

It is the Word of their People that they were gathered to… their Life is written in the account of THEIR people… their legacy lives on as a testimony of the spirit of the Jewish People.

It does not negate that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as well as Moses are no longer living on this earth … other than their legacy; the testament to their People.

This is Life… do you see them here? They live through their People. It is not mystical and truly, there is nothing that you know that can testify that they will resurrect physically from the graves to again walk the earth. I am speaking to Life here and not imagination.

I agree they live on through their people, but do you think that it is the written account of the people that they were gathered to? The biblical image is that they are rejoining their ancestors.

**The whole span of Abraham’s life was one hundred and seventy-five years. Then he breathed his last, dying at a ripe old age, grown old after a full life; and he was taken to his kinsmen. (Gen 25:7-8)

The lifetime of Isaac was one hundred and eighty years; then he breathed his last. After a full life, he died as an old man and was taken to his kinsmen. His sons Esau and Jacob buried him. (Gen 35:28-29)

When Jacob had finished giving these instructions to his sons, he drew his feet into the bed, breathed his last, and was taken to his kindred. (Gen 49:33)**

 

[ryanoneil]

Do you trust God, Ryanoneil? If so, then why is this speculation so important for you? Proverbs 2:1-7… if you must understand, then cry out for HIS understanding. If you cry out, not to man and his speculations, but rather to God… so that He will teach you from His own “mouth” He WILL teach you… it is the Promise made. Deut 4:12 … you will eat the words you have spoken, but they will not taste bitter. They will taste sweet as you are taught the understanding of the Word of Life.

But discard the speculations of man first. They are the curse that keeps your eyes shut to the awareness of Life. Jeremiah 17:5

Yes I do trust God and I don’t consider the afterlife the speculation of men. I believe it was taught from God’s own mouth through the living words of Jesus Christ. (OT and NT)

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. It is written in the prophets: ‘They shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." (John 6:44-51)

“Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.”

Then Malachi 3:6 says, I, the LORD, do not change so that the sons of Jacob are not consumed. If the meanings can be different, then there is NOT ANY stability on which we can call the solid Rock of our salvation. Confusion is all we could ever know.

I found the path to what I was seeking when I quit worrying about the so called “next life” and rather focused on the one that I AM in. I put my trust in God and in His righteous judgments and the Light of Truth suddenly started shining.

But the Lord has not changed. God is faithful to his promise not abandon the Israelites, which is why Jesus came. I’m glad you put your trust in God, and I am sure he is very pleased with your faith. I know you don’t believe Jesus’ claim but I pray that you do some day.

(So) the Jews said to him, “Now we are sure that you are possessed. Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘Whoever keeps my word will never taste death.’ Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? Or the prophets, who died? Who do you make yourself out to be?” Jesus answered, "If I glorify myself, my glory is worth nothing; but it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ You do not know him, but I know him. And if I should say that I do not know him, I would be like you a liar. But I do know him and I keep his word. Abraham your father rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.” So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area. (John 8:52-59)

Here Jesus is not exempting us from the experience of bodily death, but assuring that he will save our souls from spiritual death by the gift of eternal life. He goes on to say that Abraham has infact seen God’s promise fulfilled, that one of his descendants would arise to bless all nations. And he takes for himself the divine name of Yahweh (I AM) because he is one with God.

 

[authenticity]

OnlyJesus;5458676:

In Jesus’ resurrection he defeated death, the grave and sin by his sinless Life.

For who exactly? Not sure when the last time was that you have chose to look around you to see that people are dying daily, “sinning” daily, and it’s been almost 2,000 years since Jesus supposedly resurrected with, according to the Christians, the promise to come and rescue you all and … well, what am I missing here that you all are claiming to be Truth? Surely the Truth would stand on your behalf, no? Because the reality is, what you are claiming as truth is not at all testifying on your behalf. If Jesus is alive, 1) where is he? 2) are you sure you would even recognize him?

In the garden of Eden, the Truth was plain as day to Adam. Then he sinned and he hid from the Truth. He was blinded. Without the removal of sin through Christ’s sacrifice, the Truth remains hidden. It was hidden to the Jewish people as it is to many people today. Instead of seeking the Truth, people worship their material things, their ideas, and ultimately themselves.

Jesus not only as God the Son, Jesus was Creator God, God himself made into man’s flesh to be tempted in the same manner as we are but he did it without sin ( search on Immanuel and Emmanuel in both testatments)

NOWHERE did Jesus claim to be God, the Son. He was Jewish. He NEVER would have and NEVER did testify to the mythological views of the Greek. Jewish … Greek. They are NOT compatible in their idealogies. One faces reality AS IT IS and the latter imagines that his desires are reality.

I could quote you the Scripture, but what good would it do? Jesus was well aware of the Jewish view about a man claiming to be God. It didn’t stop Him from telling them He is one with the Father. Maybe because it’s the truth.

And what are classifying as sin? One can only deny temptations when one has a reason to deny them… that comes by way of experience. Huh… that MUST be the reason why Jesus did not cast a stone his own self, no?

By your logic, if someone were to offer you crack and you said no, it’s because you’ve smoked crack in the past. Otherwise, you couldn’t say no because you can’t deny a temptation without the experience.

The entire point of the resurrection is to give a method for man to be reconnected and spend eternity with God as it was in the beginning.

God is Eternal Life. That we have a beginning only testifies to the fact that we will never be God, Eternal Life.

Besides, I don’t want to go back to my beginning. I was in ignorance then. Why would I want to go back to ignorance? I love Life and being aware of His ways and being able to continue growing in that knowledge. Do you remember the day you were born? Neither do I. Why would you seek to go back to that state?

THE beginning not your beginning.

Sin separates man from God. God himself as Jesus came as our Saviour and became the bridge back to God thru repentance and belief in Jesus Christ’s finished work on the cross.

If the work of your demigod was finished on the cross, mind explaining to me why you are even still here?

Not a demigod. He was fully God, fully man. What is 2000 years to an infinite God? We are here to glorify Him.

I think if this is truth you are stating, your god is playing games with you. Else, you must know the answer as to why you have been thrown into a waiting room since there is no other reason for your existence given that the work is finished.

How far away is eternity? You don’t know God’s grace or His blessing, the comfort of His Spirit. This life is not lived in vain. In fact, it is the only life to be lived. Everything else is death.

 

[simplynoone]

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying about death. Yes there is spiritual death and resurrection in the life we are given, but there is also spiritual death and resurrection in eternity.

The words of the Tanakh point to the Christ who is the Word that was with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2). Jesus said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me (John 14:6).

Not only did Jesus come to resurrect the dead in our earthly life, but he also came to destroy deaths eternal hold on mankind, by rising from the dead (opening the way to all of us). In other words he descended to the dead and preached to souls that he was going to rise, then ascend to the Father, and take them with.

You say the words of the Tanakh point to the Christ… and yet the only evidence I am ever shown by anyone is the words of the NT.

When Jesus, a Jewish man, was speaking to his Jewish disciples to say that elias has already come, he was not joking for Elias is rather the Greek literalist interpretation of the greek Sun god personified, Helios (Elijah is the Conceptual Metaphor written by a Jewish author that is brilliant considering what “was for to come”). The Greek mentality of the messiah has come and still… the kingdom of God is taken by violence. When he spoke of the Son of man, the disciples understood this to mean the words that John (the Baptist, as he is called) was speaking to… also found in Ezekiel 18:20-28. It is the same conceptual metaphor spoken of in Job… that if we pay attention to the judgments of God Who is the only teacher of true Justice (via cause and effect), we can understand what it is stated in Job 40:14.

Moses was taught by the “mouth” of God obviously because if one REALLY takes the time to try and understand the Laws that he gave, it would become apparent that he gave the children of Israel gold… for the Laws are based on Justice and Mercy. The Word in Ezekiel 18:20-28 is speaking to Grace understood that comes through the Law of God. The belief in Jesus can not do anything for anyone just as the belief in Moses, as a saviour, can not do anything for anyone given that Jesus and Moses are dead… the Law of God is eternal; and just as Jesus pointed to the Laws given of Moses as the perfect place to start for learning the Law of God, so should we do the same (of course, unless one jumps out of faith to what will seem the scary void of fully trusting God’s judgment, one will never truly understand why it is the only Saviour is God which is testified to in Isaiah).

So, when one believes in Jesus, this is what I mean in saying that I am baffled as to why so many point to death as though it is the way to Life. We all will die… but the Tanakh is not speaking to that… it is speaking to Life, which we have now.

 

[simplynoone]

Hi simplynoone! I also came to believe that Jesus IS the word of God. Jesus also revealed that he, being the word, is our daily bread.

Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’" So Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. (John 6:31-35)

So yes, salvation is of the Jews.

The bread is the Word and that is not Jesus unless someone changed the Tanakh to the name, “Jesus.” Jesus was a man and unless Jeremiah 17:5 is now changed from a curse to a blessing, than the only way to understand the Word (the Tanakh) is by the “mouth” of God… and who is God?

Isaiah 45:18-25 … It is to be taught by the “mouth” of God, Proverbs 2:1-7. The children of Israel learned… they did via experience and the Laws given by Moses were set up perfectly for making one aware of how it is we can be taught from the “mouth” of God… this is to govern ones own life in the Voice of rationality rather than being governed by the mouths of other men. If one is sensitive to the Voice of God, then they will learn what true Justice is and from this knowledge stems the just and righteous man. Job, again, speaks to this perfectly. That so many judged him because he had lost everything had nothing to do with righteous judgment. Job refused to be the hypocrite before God and he learned where it is salvation comes from, that would be God; and it is salvation is already given to us from the beginning. That God did not give us all we needed from the beginning is saying that God was lacking in judgment. The best example for the process of learning comes from the Tanakh … that Jesus did not sin is all a matter of how it is we are perceiving the Just Law of God. That he was perfect from birth is only to say that He was aware of how it is we learn to walk in God’s ways… and this is echoed in what Ezekiel, the prophet called the Son of man, said… chapter 18 verses 20-28.

In addition to believing that Jesus is the word of God, we Catholics believe the breath of God is the Holy Spirit, who procedes from the Father and the Son.

God is the Holy Spirit. The bread of Life is the Word of the People, the Jewish, found in the Tanakh. Only God can give the breath of Life though. The Son, Israel (unless you want to argue with the foundation, Exo 4:22,23 and Hosea 11:1), has given us the bread (the knowledge they have learned via submitting TO LEARNING the ways of God) and Jesus, as one of the Son confirmed this in Matthew 5:17-19.

Jesus also said “The Father and I are one.” (John 10:30) Here he asserts their unity and reveals that his words and deeds are the words and deeds of God.

The Father and I are one is simply to say that he is being led by God… the Law of God brings forth knowledge of the experiences that are before us. Psalm 19 and Psalm 119. If the Law of God is in the heart, then it is in the mind… and to that person, truly they are at one with the Father… which is to say, they are led by God. All that is attributed to Jesus that is being taken from the literalist perspective is not at all of God… but rather it is what man’s idea of what they think God should be. That is the Christ, the Greek’s messiah.

The Jewish Messiah is Israel, the People. Job 40:14 and that is because God is not a man, but He is the Creator of the Heavens and the earth and He established His ways from the beginning… all that we need has been given… What God creates is indeed Good. Ecclesiastes 7:29

I agree they live on through their people, but do you think that it is the written account of the people that they were gathered to? The biblical image is that they are rejoining their ancestors.

The whole span of Abraham’s life was one hundred and seventy-five years. Then he breathed his last, dying at a ripe old age, grown old after a full life; and he was taken to his kinsmen. (Gen 25:7-8)

The lifetime of Isaac was one hundred and eighty years; then he breathed his last. After a full life, he died as an old man and was taken to his kinsmen. His sons Esau and Jacob buried him. (Gen 35:28-29)

When Jacob had finished giving these instructions to his sons, he drew his feet into the bed, breathed his last, and was taken to his kindred. (Gen 49:33)

They died and were buried amongst their own… I am unsure why this is such a hard thing for people to understand when it is not really all that uncommon of a practice. My family has a place of burial and when someone on that side of the family dies, they are taken to be “gathered with their kindred,” even if they died in another state… it is to this one place of burial they are gathered. It is so the living are able to go pay respect to the memory of those in the family without having to travel around the country to do such. That is how I would interpret the above… I am not sure how else it could be taken since it clearly says they lived their lives and then died. There is nothing at all here that would make me think they are still living and/or will live again… how is it that you see it another way? I am curious.

 

[simplynoone]

I don’t think that it is so much a matter of people not seeking the truth, it is more a matter that they have already made up in their mind what the Truth is and have missed out on how it is we can seek the Truth.

Let’s look at Genesis 3:

First, notice it says the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field THAT THE LORD GOD HAD MADE.

Clue #1: God made the serpent.

So, all that time in the garden that they had obeyed the command that God had given to them … then along comes this most subtle of the beasts that the LORD God had made and who does the serpent go to??? The woman, was made as the companion specifically for the man directly after the man received the command by God.

Clue #2: women are usually the ones to act on impulse due to their inherent nature for nurturing (the reason she was made in the first place).

She does acknowledge the command and even acknowledges that the punishment is death, thus… she is aware of death.

Clue #4: Physical death was not the punishment … and eternal Life was never theres, else it would have been the appeal. And clearly it was not because what sold her on tasting the fruit was that it would make her wise.

What DID happen as a result of eating the fruit was they became aware … the death that occured was to ignorance else, which is obvious given that they were aware of their nakedness.

Now, they heard the Voice of the LORD and this is where it is realized what sin is. They hid themselves … the LORD had to ask where they were which is metaphorical to say, “You are shutting me out.”

Clue #5: Guilt serves its purpose if understood correctly.

Fortunately, our two protypes of mankind are meek enough to come out of hiding and confess what it is they did and thus, God hands them His righteous Judgments.

And thus, they have learned the purpose of their lives within Life. To learn and grow in Wisdom. If you really take time to read those judgments, you will begin to see how it is God has dealt with His People in the Tanakh.

Also, that Adam names the Woman Eve, mother of all Living, is not at all a sign that he regarded the judgment of God as a bad thing, but rather, he knew it was good and why it was good. This is the basis of the Tanakh… the foundation in understanding so much that is given to us via this People, Israel.

Clue #6: the Commands of God and the Judgments of God are for His righteous purpose… He is the ultimate authority of what Righteous Justice is … and either we learn it which entails FULLY trusting Him by FULLY accepting His judgments for our actions or we continue to deny Him of our purpose for living.

The Truth is, God is infinite in knowledge… that we could know the Truth in its entirety is impossible. God established His Law from the beginning and it is up to us to learn how it is He works within this creation so that WE can grow in the knowledge that He chooses for us. That God hides Himself is never actually the case… it is that we are hiding ourselves by the deceptive knowledge that we could actually be gods that live eternally. THAT will NEVER happen and it is for our sake … thus, the reason for God telling Adam, “cursed is the ground FOR THY SAKE…”

God’s creation and how He has established His ways from the foundation is brilliant… it is good.

To say that it was lacking from the beginning is to declare it not good; though I am sure this is said in ignorance. Adam and the Woman trusted God when they quit hiding themselves (covering themselves which is strangely familiar when we see how it is the Christians sacrifice is used). Better, Adam realized, to allow God to clothe you than to hide from His Voice (which, it is more of a death and bland existence than to just throw oneself to completely trusting our Creator… the One Who created us in His infinite Wisdom)… He is good, ya know.

 

[Anna_Shaquila]

Hi
May I recommend a superb book written by an investigative journalist, who not only treats the resurrection in professional and comprehensive style, not to mention straight common sense… but nearly any other part of the Historic account of the life of Jesus Christ…

 

[Dokimas]

*Luke 16:19-31 Particularly the last verse which says, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets (the Law and testimonies Isaiah 8:20), neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

I am a HUGE fan of the Law of God and I must admit that I see very little of it is regarded in Catholism. Now, remember that the Law of God is NOT just the Mosaic Law but the Natural Laws as well… after, God is the Creator, no?

So… here, even in the NT by Jesus’ own admission, man has all they need in the Law of God (which includes the Natural Laws) and in the testimonies to see the Truth.

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb? Where is he? 2,000 years and what is it that you have learned from all of this? Anything? If you still believe in the supernatural resurrection of Jesus, why? Again, to what benefit is it to you?

Thanks for any who are willing to help me understand this perspective that I just can not seem to grasp! *

It looks like you have several misunderstandings here.​

The story of Lazareth and the rich man is about life not about death. The mortal bodies of both die yet they still live, one to eteral joy, the other to eternal shame of his own making.​

Jesus was saying that the Law is sufficient to show each one of us that we are sinners in need of help. If the Law can’t reveal to a person that God is just and merciful, Jesus said that even if a person pop back into their mortal body, unbelievers will stay unbelievers. Miracles alone can’t change a stony heart.​

If you really want to the resurrection of Jesus try www.garyhabermas.com

 

[Vico]

simplynoone, you wrote initially:

---

Luke 16:19-31 Particularly the last verse which says, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets (the Law and testimonies Isaiah 8:20), neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

Jesus admits in the above parable that a man coming to life would do no good… so what is the point that so many think he, Jesus, did actually raise from being 3 days/nights in the tomb?

---

Your question indicates that you do not know the reason that Jesus resurrected. You have given, from Luke, that those not believing in Moses and the prophets would not believe from seeing resurrection; therefore it would be logical for you to conclude that Jesus resurrected for some other purpose than to convince those that do not believe in Moses and the prophets. Jesus came to fulfill the scriptures, and from the scriptures (Tanakh) we learn that some receive God’s secret, and of resurrection after three days:

(Douay version)

AMOS 3:7 For the Lord God doth nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.
HOSEA 6:3 He will revive us after two days: on the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. We shall know, and we shall follow on, that we may know the Lord. His going forth is prepared as the morning light, and he will come to us as the early and the latter rain to the earth.

In the New Testament quotes you gave, from Luke, the idea is that seeing a resurrection would be convincing, but we learn that if one would not hear Moses and the prophets they would also not accept seeing a resurrection. We also see that Jesus does not refute resurrection but accepts it.

LK 16:30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
LK 16:31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

You can also read of resurrection in the Tanakh shown below:

Daniel 12:2-3

2 And many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth, shall awake: some unto life everlasting, and others unto reproach, to see it always.
3 But they that are learned shall shine as the brightness of the firmament: and they that instruct many to justice, as stars for all eternity.

Isaiah 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, my slain shall rise again: awake, and give praise, ye that dwell in the dust: for thy dew is the dew of the light: and the land of the giants thou shalt pull down into ruin.

Ezekiel 37:12-14

12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them: Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will open your graves, and will bring you out of your sepulchres, O my people: and will bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall have opened your sepulchres, and shall have brought you out of your graves, O my people:
14 And shall have put my spirit in you, and you shall live, and I shall make you rest upon your own land: and you shall know that I the Lord have spoken, and done it, saith the Lord God:

 

[M0nkey]

Let’s start with the basics, do you believe in God’s promises to David?

 

[simplynoone]

It looks like you have several misunderstandings here.​

The story of Lazareth and the rich man is about life not about death. The mortal bodies of both die yet they still live, one to eteral joy, the other to eternal shame of his own making.​

Jesus was saying that the Law is sufficient to show each one of us that we are sinners in need of help. If the Law can’t reveal to a person that God is just and merciful, Jesus said that even if a person pop back into their mortal body, unbelievers will stay unbelievers. Miracles alone can’t change a stony heart.​

If you really want to the resurrection of Jesus try www.garyhabermas.com

Then Jesus must not have been a Jew because the Scriptures that he claimed to be speaking to say that there is no knowledge, nor device, nor work, nor wisdom in the grave.

Of course, Jesus was well aware of the truth in the Tanakh and that he was speaking allegorically in the lesson of the Rich man and Lazarus is more likely; unless you can explain all the inconsistencies in Jesus teachings in regards to the Tanakh if he meant what you are claiming that he meant…

Your view is of the hellenistic teachings of Paul; he was speaking to what we do not know is truth, but rather the imaginations of men…

Jesus said, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

HE was speaking of Life… what we are in. 2,000 years has seriously not been enough time to understand that the dead do not physically and magically come raising back up out of the grave? And you are really going to convince me that YOU YOURSELF know that Ecc 9:10 is wrong… that there IS knowledge in the grave … the underworld view of the hellenistic greeks is a reality?

Just as Jesus did, I speak to what I know. What is it you are speaking to?

 

[simplynoone]

Also, consider Amos 3:7, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”

I have considered. It is why I know the Truth is on the side of the Bible where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob’s accounts are given. Isaiah 45:9-25.

The question is, have you really considered it?

 

[simplynoone]

Let’s start with the basics, do you believe in God’s promises to David?

Good place to start M0nkey! I am glad to see that you are willing to walk through this step by step; and hand in hand with me hopefully.

Yes… that his seed would be given the everlasting throne of Jerusalem.

So, let’s figure out who the “seed” of David is. What did David learn during his time lived on this earth?

We know he saw a woman and couldn’t resist her. He tried desperately to get her husband to go lay with her so as to cover his adulterous affair that led to her getting pregnant. When that failed, he resorted to having him murdered.

His house was then cursed. Yet, still the promise was given … any guesses as to why? What lesson did he learn that was so valuable that made the LORD promise to his seed forever the throne of Jerusalem?

Was it that shedding innocent blood really worked in the way of covering up one’s deeds?

 

[M0nkey]

Very good, and where is that “everlasting throne” and where is that Jerusalem?

 

[simplynoone]

Very good, and where is that “everlasting throne” and where is that Jerusalem?

So, you do indeed agree with what I have said thus far?

The everlasting throne would be in Jerusalem … and Jerusalem, well, that of course is in Israel.

 

[Vico]

I have considered. It is why I know the Truth is on the side of the Bible where Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob’s accounts are given. Isaiah 45:9-25.

The question is, have you really considered it?

Simplynoone, that quote is not my statement, It is what you said in your first post. It seems you did not understand what I wrote. (Did you actually read it?) Note Hosea 6:3 adressing the three days followed by resurrection, which Jesus actually demonstrated.

 

[simplynoone]

Simplynoone, that quote is not my statement, It is what you said in your first post. It seems you did not understand what I wrote. (Did you actually read it?) Note Hosea 6:3 adressing the three days followed by resurrection, which Jesus actually demonstrated.

Yes, I read your post. I do apologize that I did not make it more clear so that you could understand. Basically, I do not know how one can read Amos 3:7 and not understand what I am driving at here.

Hosea 6:3 is the only place in the Tanakh where it is spoken of a resurrection that takes place on the third day that can be related to the NT resurrection. Notice it says “us.” … that means it is not one individual raised. It is speaking of something far more profound and true to Life… not the resurrection of the physically dead.

That Amos 3:7 says the secret is with the prophets means that anything that is to happen will be first stated by the prophets.

It also should be noted that in the writings attributed to Peter, there is one thing he says we should not be ignorant… ONE THING… that would be that a thousand years are as a day to the Lord. This is something also spoken of in the Tanakh. Thus, it really is a mystery to you, no? You take it to mean an actual 3 and you could be wrong … right? After all, there is nothing of proof anyone has shown me saying that Jesus did in fact raise from the dead… where is he?

I have and will continue to maintain that if Jesus could raise from the dead physically (which is not something we could POSSIBLY say we know is true given that no one has EVER witnessed such a thing) … no one would recognize him.

Echoed through the ages: We speak that we DO know, and testify that we HAVE seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them: Thus saith the Lord God: Behold I will open your graves, and will bring you out of your sepulchres, O my people: and will bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I shall have opened your sepulchres, and shall have brought you out of your graves, O my people:
14 And shall have put my spirit in you, and you shall live, and I shall make you rest upon your own land: and you shall know that I the Lord have spoken, and done it, saith the Lord God:

See above…

and perhaps even take the suggestion to really consider Amos 3:7, which says, Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto the prophets, His servants.

Again, show me where it says one man will rise on the third day and then many more will rise on another third day (???) sometime after the one man was raised.

 

[M0nkey]

So, you do indeed agree with what I have said thus far?

The everlasting throne would be in Jerusalem … and Jerusalem, well, that of course is in Israel.

Where exactly in Jerusalem is that throne? For there to be an everlasting throne, it follows that it must be an everlasting King that comes from the seed of David, where is He?

 

[simplynoone]

Where exactly in Jerusalem is that throne? For there to be an everlasting throne, it follows that it must be an everlasting King that comes from the seed of David, where is He?

Well, I am sure that throne is representative of where the seed is. The seed of David would already be in Jerusalem. Do you know what it means … the seed? That means : offspring… children.