Retreat in the Face of Opposition

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The problem I have with many traditionalists and orthodox Catholics is their tendency to retreat in the face of opposition. Some traditionalists even go off and start their own Church. Then they complain about such things as liturgical dance and heretics in the RCIA.

What is needed is more orthodox Catholics in positions of parish leadership, more orthodox Catholics knocking on bishop’s doors demanding more reverent liturgies, and more orthodox Catholics actually engaged in catechesis. Don’t be put off by those who would want to exclude you. Insinuate yourselves!

The results often won’t look as good as you hope. That’s because you will face (gasp!) opposition, and sometimes the opponents will get their way. But that’s no reason to let people who don’t even believe in Catholicism to trample our sanctuaries.

In a word, stop running away! Stand and fight!
 
JackQ said:
The problem I have with many traditionalists and orthodox Catholics is their tendency to retreat in the face of opposition. Some traditionalists even go off and start their own Church. Then they complain about such things as liturgical dance and heretics in the RCIA.

What is needed is more orthodox Catholics in positions of parish leadership, more orthodox Catholics knocking on bishop’s doors demanding more reverent liturgies, and more orthodox Catholics actually engaged in catechesis. Don’t be put off by those who would want to exclude you. Insinuate yourselves!

The results often won’t look as good as you hope. That’s because you will face (gasp!) opposition, and sometimes the opponents will get their way. But that’s no reason to let people who don’t even believe in Catholicism to trample our sanctuaries.

In a word, stop running away! Stand and fight!
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If you were to delete the first paragraph of your thread, it could be a good discussion.
 
paramedicgirl said:
If you were to delete the first paragraph of your thread, it could be a good discussion.
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Well, it’s the way I feel about it. We could use the traditionalists who have separated from Rome in the Church. I wish the people in the SSPX were still with us. But when the invaders started coming over the wall, they booked, leaving the rest of us to fight by ourselves.
 
JackQ said:
Well, it’s the way I feel about it. We could use the traditionalists who have separated from Rome in the Church. I wish the people in the SSPX were still with us. But when the invaders started coming over the wall, they booked, leaving the rest of us to fight by ourselves.
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The SSPX is not part of the Church? You better let them know. They pray for the Pope at every Mass.
 
JackQ said:
Well, it’s the way I feel about it. We could use the traditionalists who have separated from Rome in the Church. I wish the people in the SSPX were still with us. But when the invaders started coming over the wall, they booked, leaving the rest of us to fight by ourselves.
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The SSPX are not a separate Church. So I hope you are not reffering to them when you say:
Some traditionalists even go off and start their own Church.
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JackQ said:
Then what’s the point of the reunification talks with the SSPX?
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The SSPX are in doubtful communion with Rome, uncertain canonical status.

They are NOT a separate Church, and have never claimed to be.

The head of the Ecclesia Dei recently described their status as “not exactly a Schism” precisely because of this reason.
 
CatholicNick said:
The SSPX are in doubtful communion with Rome, uncertain canonical status.

They are NOT a separate Church, and have never claimed to be.

The head of the Ecclesia Dei recently described their status as “not exactly a Schism” precisely because of this reason.
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So if I’m just your average Catholic, is it okay with the SSPX if I attend one of their masses and receive communion? Is it okay with the Church?
 
JackQ said:
So if I’m just your average Catholic, is it okay with the SSPX if I attend one of their masses and receive communion? Is it okay with the Church?
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It’s OK with the SSPX.
If you go their Mass out of love for the TLM, it’s OK with the Church.
 
JackQ said:
The problem I have with many traditionalists and orthodox Catholics is their tendency to retreat in the face of opposition. Some traditionalists even go off and start their own Church. Then they complain about such things as liturgical dance and heretics in the RCIA…

In a word, stop running away! Stand and fight!
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The problem is, it’s our fight, not our children’s.

In our former parish, there were a lot of liturgical abuses. It has used to be a good parish, but a new pastor came it it went down hill fast.

I’ll fight the fight, but when my children had to start defending themselves from their own teachers, that’s when I draw the line.

I could not, as a parent, continue to expose my children to that liturgically toxic environment. My children’s spiritual well being comes first and I could not continue to have it endangered.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
No, it isn’t, PMG.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1984225#post1984225

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1940509#post1940509

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85351
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It all depends on who you want to believe [edited by Moderator] Msgr Perle
  1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."
  2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
“3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified.”
 
paramedicgirl said:
It all depends on who you want to believe - Michelle Arnold or Msgr Perle
  1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."
  2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
“3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified.”
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ONE…ISOLATED…INCIDENT. Not a blanket permission. The Holy and Apostolic See ALSO said, in the quote you provide, that they CANNOT rec. attendance. That ought to be enough for the obedient Catholic.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
ONE…ISOLATED…INCIDENT. Not a blanket permission. The Holy and Apostolic See ALSO said, in the quote you provide, that they CANNOT rec. attendance. That ought to be enough for the obedient Catholic.
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We’ve gone this round many times before. This is from the follow up letter to the public, where the initial letter was directed to a single person, and you know it.
 
Seems like a blanket permission to me.

And, my, what a warm, comfy blanket. I could snuggle in it forever, especially with this cold snap we’ve been having recently.
 
paramedicgirl said:
We’ve gone this round many times before. This is from the follow up letter to the public, where the initial letter was directed to a single person, and you know it.
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NO, the letter was provided to the public to establish THE CONTEXT of the letter, NOT to establish a blanket permission. It is misleading to people when you say that it’s okay to attend an SSPX Mass!!! Ecclesia Dei is STILL in effect. The faithful are still warned against the sin of schism.
 
KMXV said:
Seems like a blanket permission to me.

And, my, what a warm, comfy blanket. I could snuggle in it forever, especially with this cold snap we’ve been having recently.
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It is, of course, your soul.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
NO, the letter was provided to the public to establish THE CONTEXT of the letter, NOT to establish a blanket permission. It is misleading to people when you say that it’s okay to attend an SSPX Mass!!! Ecclesia Dei is STILL in effect. The faithful are still warned against the sin of schism.
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You’ll pardon me if I sidestep this discussion. Been there, done that. :yawn:
 
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