Returning to the Protestant Faith

[iamrefreshed]

Well, given that our priest and worship director at our Catholic church are both gay (worship director living with his partner) I have serious issues with how Catholics interpret gay marriage.

Have you witnessed any of these people engaging in homosexual relations?

Do you assume they are gay or have they personally told you?

Have they personally told you they are actively engaging in homosexual activities?

Sounds like gossip at work. The devils number 1 tool.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I would say begin reading at Acts 1:15, where the bible states that Peter stood up and then found in scripture (Psalm 109:8) where “may another take his office.” While scripture is inspired by God. It was Peter and the other 10 apostles getting together that caused Matthias to become an apostle. There needs to 12 for perfect rule (related to the 12 tribes).

Some places for you to learn more:

catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Succession.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504sbs.asp

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, **Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show of these two the one whom thou hast chosen, **25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas fell away, that he might go to his own place. 26 And they gave lots for them; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

It is ultimately God who chooses, not man and those chosen by man and not called of God will and have failed. Now we have 12 apostles and Paul has yet to be inaugurated until Acts 9 = 13

Thank you for the links and I will be reading them sometime this day…May God bless you.

 

[Masters_Servant]

My pleasure. I wished to emphasize that those who were ordained by the apostles weren’t commissioned only to preach the Gospel, but to administer and celebrate the sacraments in the liturgy of the Church.

1. Baptism

“Now, why delay? Get up and have yourself baptized and your sins washed away, calling upon his name.”
Acts 22, 16

1. Reconciliation

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you reatain are retained.”
John 20, 23

1. The Holy Eucharist

The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because the loaf of bread is one we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf. Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participating in the altar?
1 Corinthians 10, 16-18

1. Confirmation

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19, 5-6

1. Holy Matrimony

Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adultress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and she is not an adultress if she consorts with another man.
Romans 7, 2-3

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law.”
Matthew 5, 17

1. Holy Orders

They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and laid hands on them.
Acts 6, 6

1. Annointing of the Sick

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
James 5, 14-15

Peter and the Apostles received their authority to ordain their successors from the Father through the Son. This authority is transferrable. Jesus himself said that he does nothing, which includes the commission of the Twelve, on his own authority (Jn 8:28). Neither did the apostles.

Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, in which you tend the church of God that he acquired with his own blood.
Acts 20, 28

PAX :heaven:

Good answers, thanks.

 

[Masters_Servant]

JL: I would just add, most Catholics who go into Protestantism are those who do not know thier faith or scripture. Most Protestants who come into the Church do know their old faith and scripture.

Do you have a reference or source for that broad assertion? thanks.

 

[Masters_Servant]

That or they are among those who buy in to the error of Pluralism:

“Well the Catholic Church doesn’t support birth control, but I do! So I’m going to convert to this Evalgelical Church down the street, which is more in line with my views on Birth Control”.

There is only one God, with one moral law which applies to all Christian’s, unequal only in culpability in so far as their own personal understanding of the moral law. That is to say, someone born and raised protistant who was told by their pastor all their lives that BC is just fine will be less culpable than a Catholic who violates this. A Catholic who actually leaves the Church because they reject the moral teaching is actually more culpable.

I can’t prove it other than by observation, but the number of Catholic families with very large household of children 8 or more is rare; whereas 30 years ago it was rare to see a Catholic family with fewer than 5 children; so someone out there is using a lot of birth control or their are far fewer Catholics in the US.

Randy made a comment in a previous post that Catholics have a higher moral standards than Protestants; I really don’t know what to say other than it is presumptuous and a bit arrogant on his part, but I will also note it is not the experience I have had personally with him, so perhaps he had a source for that and did not reveal it or misspoke?

 

[Masters_Servant]

I’m in RCIA. In my personal experience in 30 years of protesting, I think you are correct. In 30 years I would often think that I actually knew little of God or my faith (now we are praying; now we are singing hymns; now we are eating crackers and grape juice in ‘rememberance’; now we are listening to the preacher). Most of the times these thoughts would come to me in the shower ( I don’t know why I always thought of God and my personal relationship with Him in the shower, but it’s true). After decades of showers I finally decided that I had to do something or my soul was lost. I started to read about Catholicism. I started to visit Catholic churches. It was as if God had his hand firmly in the middle of my back. I visited St. Peter’s in Rome and that was it. Now, for the first time, I think I actually know something about God. Now I sing in the shower. But I sure have a lot to learn.

What exactly did you learn about God that you did not know before visiting Rome? Just curious since you did not describe the change.

 

[Masters_Servant]

The seven sacraments are the fruit of the tree of life, the cross. Mt 8:17 He took our infirmities and bore our diseases. Paul states in 1Cor 4:1 This is how one should regard us as servants of Christ and STEWARDS OF THE MYSTERIES OF GOD. The Sacraments or mysteries in English are part of those mysteries, now made known through the Gospel. Instituted by Christ, and performed with the intention of doing as Christ willed, they are signs, words and actions, by the power of Christ and action of the Holy Spirit, confer the GRACE signified. Or it is an outward, material sign that points to and inward, spiritual reality. [the CCC says. As fire transforms into itself what it touches, so the Holy Spirit transforms into the life of the Spirit, through the sacraments whomever he touches.]

The SACRAMENT OF HOLY ORDERS, ordination, by laying of hands gives the GIFT of the Holy Spirit to enable an ordained minister to fulfill his mission. [2 TIM 1:6 …stir up the GIFT OF GOD IN YOU BY THE PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS 7 GOD HAS GIVEN US the SPIRIT OF POWER. [2Tm4:2 PREACH THE WORD; be prepared in season and out of season; CORRECT, REBUKE and ENCOURAGE—WITH great patience and CAREFUL INSTRUCTION]

Titus 1:5 For this I left you in Crete that you should set in order …and ORDAIN ELDERS in EVERY CITY AS I APPOINTED YOU. Titus1:7 For A BISHOP must be blameless, as THE STEWARD OF GOD; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 HOLDING FAST THE FAITHFUL WORD AS HE HATH BEEN TAUGHT, that he may be able BY SOUND DOCTRINE both TO EXHORT and TO CONVINCE the gainsayers.

[Titus2:15 THESE, then, are the THINGS YOU SHOULD TEACH. ENCOURAGE and REBUKE WITH ALL AUTHORITY. Do not let anyone despise you.] Acts 14:23 when they had ORDAINED elders IN EVERY CHURCH and prayed with fasting they commended them to the Lord on whom they believed. Acts 20:28 Take heed of yourself, and the flock over which the HOLY SPIRIT has MADE you OVERSEERS TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD purchased with his own blood, 1TIM 5:17 Let the elders that RULE well be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR especially they who labour in the WORD AND DOCTRINE.

1 Tin 4:13 Till I come attend to READING to EXHORTATION to DOCTRINE 14 Do not neglect THE GIFT in you GIVEN you by prophecy WITH THE LAYING ON OF the HANDS of the presbytery 16 TAKE HEED to yourself TO THE DOCTRINE continue in them for in doing this you shalt both SAVE yourself and THOSE WHO HEAR YOU.]

I can’t find a VALID minister in the New Covenant who was not ordained and SENT directly by Christ including Paul, or SENT by laying on of hands in the unbroken apostolic line, either by an apostle or one they ordained. The Bishops of the world in union with the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) make up the Magisterium (that teaching authority sent by Christ Mt28:16-20 GO TEACH ALL NATIONS I AM WITH YOU TILL THE END). Their duty is to teach, sanctify and govern. Teach the Word of God, faith and morals, what we must believe and moral standards. Sanctify by preaching the Word of God and administering the sacraments, govern the Church for good order, Jn 17:21 THAT THEY MAY BE ONE as you Father are in me and I in you that they also may be one in us THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE you SENT ME

Thanks for the post; you and GoodFella are somewhat apart and somewhat together on the seven sacraments. GoodFellas was a little more clear and you may want to look at it and compare the two and decide which is the best and use it the next time someone may inquire. I’m not criticizing you or GoodFella for I appreciate that you both took the time to respond in good faith to the question I had. Thanks again and it could be both of you are actually in full agreement, but in some cases using different Scripture to make the case. Together you may have an even more extensive answer…just thinking out loud. May God bless you and goodFella.

 

[Justin_Mee]

Do you have a reference or source for that broad assertion? thanks.

Did you ever walk in someplace and feel that you have been there before. Only, to me, it was like I was home. True, the majesty of the surroundings at St. Peter’s will overwhelm anyone. But, it is the first time I ever felt the Holy Spirit was actually there. That is the only thing it could have been. When I walked out, I was committed. That is the only way I can describe it.

 

[Justin_Mee]

What exactly did you learn about God that you did not know before visiting Rome? Just curious since you did not describe the change.

Did you ever walk in someplace and feel that you have been there before. Only, to me, it was like I was home. True, the majesty of the surroundings at St. Peter’s will overwhelm anyone. But, it is the first time I ever felt the Holy Spirit was actually there. That is the only thing it could have been. When I walked out, I was committed. That is the only way I can describe it.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Not necessarily. There are actually Catholics who go into Protestantism (and vice versa) out of a sincere love for the Lord. (I am not saying that if you love the Lord, you have to leave.)
I only serve Him and Him alone and that is why I left. I do not believe the teachings of the CC (anymore) and I therefore cannot subject myself to them.
Just being not catechized well is not the reason for most. I was raised in a very Catholic environment starting with a Catholic daycare over a Catholic kindergarten, to a Catholic elementary school and religious education classes in middle school and high school. I went to all sacraments (except for Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick) and I even taught Confirmation classes in my village. I disagree that leaving the CC necessarily constitutes a lack of knowledge.

And I am also sure that I did not leave because it is easier on the flesh… One does not have to be Catholic to agree with certain moral standards. When I left I was 23, single and a virgin (well now I am married) and leaving the CC did not lead to promiscuity, use of artificial birth control or abortion. That was certainly not my prime motivation:

I have heard this argument over and over again, claiming that those who leave the Catholic Church do so because it is easier on the flesh or because of selfishness. I agree that there might be instances in which that is true, but for the most cases this would not be true. Someone who does believe everything else and just excludes the Catholic teaching on certain morals will not leave the CC over that. Why should he forsake everything else for that reason? Just reading in this forum gives a clear picture… There are people here who ask for help because they have practicing homosexuals in their parish and don’t know how to handle the situation. If moral theology was a main factor in leaving why would these scenarios be possible? I agree that it might be the one thing that brings the whole faith down and brings it over the edge, but I disagree that this should be the only thing.

I am not trying to attack either one of you. I am just trying to help you see that not every former Catholic fits into a scheme of “not catechized” , “immoral” or “selfish desires”

I for my part am dead to myself and alive in Jesus Christ. He is my Lord and my Master. I do not serve myself, because He is my only focus. He is my life and He is my light.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
In Him,
Janet

Hi Janet, you have a unique perspective because of your heavy involvement in the Catholic Chuurch and now you are not there anymore; i suspect you have some useful insights that I might learn about Catholicism that I might not get otherwise. If I think of some questions may I ask of you? Thanks and God bless.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Did you ever walk in someplace and feel that you have been there before. Only, to me, it was like I was home. True, the majesty of the surroundings at St. Peter’s will overwhelm anyone. But, it is the first time I ever felt the Holy Spirit was actually there. That is the only thing it could have been. When I walked out, I was committed. That is the only way I can describe it.

Thanks and I think you said it very well; it is difficult to put such things in words people can really grasp a hold of and I was able to grasp an experience you had based on your words.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
In Him,
Janet

I find it interesting that you close your post with the words the Priest uses at the beginning of Mass (yes, I know those words are from Scripture, yet some people insist the Mass isn’t Biblical!). Was that intentional, to be ecumencial?

I was also wondering if you became a fan of John MacArthur before or after you left the Church (noticing his quote in your signature)? He seems very anti-Catholic. I don’t think I’ve ever listened to him (stumbling upon his show accidently probably 10 times or so) where he didn’t either overtly or backhandedly take a jab at Catholicism.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[jmcrae]

Nobody is making a fuss over me, believe me.

All of the Catholics within this parish I spoke to about my concern with the worship leader/music director all said they knew about it, but forgave it because he is so talented. And he is.

The priest goes to events in the community with this gentleman and his “roommate”. In our other local parish, the priest openly dates a woman. I did not believe it when I heard about it, but it has been discussed by so many people who don’t even know each other. And again, they act as though it is no big deal. He’s good at what he does and plans to retire soon.

It seems to me that you are rejecting the Church because of people who neither believe nor follow its teachings. That doesn’t seem very fair, to me.

I did not have enough time to discern if this was where God was leading me. I regret that.

What was your original reason for being attracted to the Church? And what was your reason for not waiting an extra year in order to be able to complete a full year cycle of RCIA?

 

[LindaSK]

Not necessarily. There are actually Catholics who go into Protestantism (and vice versa) out of a sincere love for the Lord. (I am not saying that if you love the Lord, you have to leave.)
I only serve Him and Him alone and that is why I left. I do not believe the teachings of the CC (anymore) and I therefore cannot subject myself to them.
Just being not catechized well is not the reason for most. I was raised in a very Catholic environment starting with a Catholic daycare over a Catholic kindergarten, to a Catholic elementary school and religious education classes in middle school and high school. I went to all sacraments (except for Marriage, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick) and I even taught Confirmation classes in my village. I disagree that leaving the CC necessarily constitutes a lack of knowledge.

And I am also sure that I did not leave because it is easier on the flesh… One does not have to be Catholic to agree with certain moral standards. When I left I was 23, single and a virgin (well now I am married) and leaving the CC did not lead to promiscuity, use of artificial birth control or abortion. That was certainly not my prime motivation:

I have heard this argument over and over again, claiming that those who leave the Catholic Church do so because it is easier on the flesh or because of selfishness. I agree that there might be instances in which that is true, but for the most cases this would not be true. Someone who does believe everything else and just excludes the Catholic teaching on certain morals will not leave the CC over that. Why should he forsake everything else for that reason? Just reading in this forum gives a clear picture… There are people here who ask for help because they have practicing homosexuals in their parish and don’t know how to handle the situation. If moral theology was a main factor in leaving why would these scenarios be possible? I agree that it might be the one thing that brings the whole faith down and brings it over the edge, but I disagree that this should be the only thing.

I am not trying to attack either one of you. I am just trying to help you see that not every former Catholic fits into a scheme of “not catechized” , “immoral” or “selfish desires”

I for my part am dead to myself and alive in Jesus Christ. He is my Lord and my Master. I do not serve myself, because He is my only focus. He is my life and He is my light.

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you.
In Him,
Janet

Don’t you miss receiving Christ in the Eucharist?

 

[mark_a]

We have a membership class to make sure people understand the basics of the faith Though Ive never attended it.

I guess I presumed that the class the op was speaking of is required for adult converts.

Is yours? Just curious.

 

[Janet1983]

I find it interesting that you close your post with the words the Priest uses at the beginning of Mass (yes, I know those words are from Scripture, yet some people insist the Mass isn’t Biblical!). Was that intentional, to be ecumencial?

I was also wondering if you became a fan of John MacArthur before or after you left the Church (noticing his quote in your signature)? He seems very anti-Catholic. I don’t think I’ve ever listened to him (stumbling upon his show accidently probably 10 times or so) where he didn’t either overtly or backhandedly take a jab at Catholicism.

In Christ,

Ellen

Hi Ellen,

I actually made it a habit to go ahead and use Scripture (not always as a direct quote) to express a well-meant blessing at the end of all of my posts in the past month (at least). I do not wish to leave a conversation without doing so.
Concerning John MacArthur, no I did not know him before my conversion. That was however not because I was a Catholic, but because I was raised in Germany, far away from anything his messages would reach. I do not agree with him on everything, but on some things and especially that which I quoted. I am very fond of the 1 hour speech this quote is from and that is all about our relationship to the Lord.
My occasional differences to his opinion and interpretation of scripture does not change the fact that I liked this one speech especially. I even went so far to get a book on the subject realizing that he seems to have devoured it as he comes very close to quoting it once in a while.

May the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, guard your heart and your mind in Christ Jesus.

Your sister in Christ,
Janet

 

[mark_a]

And I am also sure that I did not leave because it is easier on the flesh… One does not have to be Catholic to agree with

certain moral standards

Are there any moral standards you disagree with?

 

[Janet1983]

Don’t you miss receiving Christ in the Eucharist?

I honestly don’t. Even though I used to believe the teachings concerning the Eucharist with all of my heart for the longest time and even though I went to mass every day and to adoration as often as I could I am not convinced anymore and I do not miss it (receiving the Eucharist).

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

In Him,
Janet

 

[TrinityKnot]

What’s this deal that folks who leave the Church talking about being “spiritually fed”?

I hear this from nearly every one. Is this protestant-talk like “open up YOUR bible,” and inserting the word “just” into prayers as in. "Jesus we just praise you and we just glorify your name Lord and just fill us Oh Lord with your glory oh Lord. . . just. . . just . . . just. . . "

This seriously made me LOL because I go to a protestant school, and everyday in Bible our teacher opens us with prayer. And she’s like: Lord we just pray that you would just heal us and just help us come to know you and what you want to teach us. And we just thank you for giving us your son. Amen.

In all seriousness though, I pray for you and your decision. You’re always welcome home.

 

[LindaSK]

I honestly don’t. Even though I used to believe the teachings concerning the Eucharist with all of my heart for the longest time and even though I went to mass every day and to adoration as often as I could I am not convinced anymore and I do not miss it (receiving the Eucharist).

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

In Him,
Janet/QUOTE

WOW! Hard to know how to respond to this. The Eucharist was one of the main reasons I converted. For me, anything less now would be downgrading, to say the least. Just can’t imagine walking away from it.