reunification questions for my protestant brothers and sisters

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That doesn’t seem to be an issue recently between EO and CC since the Ravenna Meeting on the issue on the Papal Primacy in the ECF. Many of the EO patriarchs have been optimistic towards uniting with Rome and have said that this will take time, patience, and prayer to make it into a reality.
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Let me give you a quote from Statement of Catholic-Orthodox Commission Theological Dialogue Between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church:
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So it is apparent, the call of unity between West and Eastern Christian is much deeper than one should expect. I highly recommend, Protestants look into these talks and look into their own heart that this call all mean. I think the CC and EO is answering Jesus’ prayer call for unity.
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Well then I should say their will be no unity between the CC and prots.😉
I speak the truth. None of what I said is made up. It’s been handed down to me by the CC since the time of the Apostle. I don’t compromise the truth either.
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I understand Manny and I dont compromise truth either. I also have the truth handed down to me since the time of the Apostles. Im sure you know what Im talking about:p 😉
 
EmergencyOps said:
The OP’s statement about “Catholics on the ground” really hit the nail on the head. My Catholic friends are, of course, “on the ground” and they are very cafeteria Catholic. For them, its more about tradition (little “t”) than it is about what they personally believe. Like the Pew study earlier this week, many people are changing religions/denom’s and escaping the beliefs they were taught while growing up.

-Mark
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Yeah, I think the catholics on forums are a different breed then what we see in reality.
The only devout catholic I know is my FIL–but he even disagrees with some of the churches teachings:eek: But, he goes to church every day, knows his saints, prays, goes to confession, receives the eucharist etc.

But I wonder if he would not be considered devout because he doesnt believe everything the church teaches?:confused: 🤷
 
Mannyfit75 said:
That doesn’t seem to be an issue recently between EO and CC since the Ravenna Meeting on the issue on the Papal Primacy in the ECF. Many of the EO patriarchs have been optimistic towards uniting with Rome and have said that this will take time, patience, and prayer to make it into a reality.
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Papal supremacy/infallibility would have to be rescinded.
Mannyfit75 said:
I highly recommend, Protestants look into these talks and look into their own heart that this call all mean. I think the CC and EO is answering Jesus’ prayer call for unity.
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I respect your optimism, but there are many issues to iron out.
Mannyfit75 said:
Caferia Catholics needs to be re-evangelized and re-catechized.
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Same with cafeteria Orthodox. 😃
 
Deacon110 said:
But Manny a priest cannot marry therefore they have to be celibant as the church does not allow sex outside of a marriage.
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My priest is a married priest and he is Catholic. He is a former Lutheran minister. He was granted this because of the Pastoral Provision.

The word “they have to be celibate” is not accurate information. You made it sound mandatory considering the fact that there are married priests in the Catholic Church in both Latin and Eastern Rite Catholic Church.
They can’t change the celibacy discipline without changing the poilcy of marriage. That makes no sense. By your implication the magisterium can change just the stance on celibacy.
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Celibacy is a discipline. It is like changing the vestments or feast days. The Catholic Church can do away with celibacy if she wanted to. However, many of the Patriarchates in the Eastern Catholic Church does not recommend ordaining married men into the priesthood.

Why? Recent study show that Eastern priests who are married have a high divorce rate. It doesn’t benefit the church community as a whole if the Church were to allow married men ordain in the Latin Rite.

It has always been in the tradition on the Western Church and the Eastern Church, that married men can be ordained as priests and that if their wife dies, they should remain celibate. Bishops in the east are not to be married at all.

The Church has never allow priests to marry. Those who want to marry have to relinguish their priestly vows and leave the priesthood completely so they can have a marriage life.
OK so then what? Priests can have sex without being married?? Thats a complete contradiction of RCC policy.
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If the Church does allow, it doesn’t contradict the CC policy. Disciplines my friend can change. Perhaps, you are too ignorant to know Church Law because you could not seem to grasp the issue of celibacy at all. I assumed you come to this forum to know what the CC actually teaches. For once I suggest you read and listen.

Marriage is not license to have sex. Marriage is one flesh union between man and woman and it is form out of love. True love involves self-sacrifice and this include dying for your spouse. Just as Jesus died for his bride the Church. If someone marry for the reason of having sex. That marriage will collapse.

I also like to add that consecrated priest is married to the Church. The Church is his bride. That is why you see priest and bishop have ring on their ring finger. The priest become like Christ because Jesus himself is celibate man. Paul does not even condemn celibacy. He speaks of those who remain celibate for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

In fact in the Book of Revelations, it speaks of virgin elders who have not taken a wives. I wonder who could they be refer too.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Yeah, I think the catholics on forums are a different breed then what we see in reality.
The only devout catholic I know is my FIL–but he even disagrees with some of the churches teachings:eek: But, he goes to church every day, knows his saints, prays, goes to confession, receives the eucharist etc.

But I wonder if he would not be considered devout because he doesnt believe everything the church teaches?:confused: 🤷
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Not sure. Devout, practicing, “good”, faithful… All are various adjectives that describe a Catholic’s faith life. I shurg, too, with my significant other. She won’t accept middle ground because she says she would have “wasted all those years” of being Catholic when she was growing up. Even though she doesn’t go to confession, doesn’t go every Sunday, believes birth control is okay, believes that abortion is okay in some circumstances… Honestly, she’d make a better Baptist than a Catholic (but don’t tell her I said that :eek: )

-Mark
 
Mickey said:
Papal supremacy/infallibility would have to be rescinded.
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That won’t happen. The EO will have to agree in some way or the other. They could even borrow the terms used by the Eastern Catholics concerning their belief on the Pope’s infallibility. Actually the word Papal Supremacy is not found in Catechism. That doesn’t exist in our Catechism. That is a word you made up.
I respect your optimism, but there are many issues to iron out.
Same with cafeteria Orthodox. 😃
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That is why I said, it will take time, patience, sacrifice, and prayer to work this out.
 
Perhaps what is needed is to evaluate our definition of “Church”
and to see that each of the members of a united Church are like members of a body each with its own usefullness each with its own purpose. And to be visionary enough to see that we are now united.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
That won’t happen.
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Then you will never see unification. Supremacy/infallibility is an innovation.
Mannyfit75 said:
They could even borrow the terms used by the Eastern Catholics concerning their belief on the Pope’s infallibility.
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When I was Eastern Catholic, many told me that they did not believe in infallibility–go figure. Then again, their ancestors were Orthodox. 😃
Mannyfit75 said:
hat is a word you made up.
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Are you saying that the Latin Church does not consider the Pope of Rome to be the supreme, infallible pontiff?
 
Deacon110,
You wrote…
“But Manny a Priest cannot marry therefore they have to be celibant as the church does not allow sex outside of a marriage. They can’t change the celibacy discipline without changing the poilcy of marriage. That makes no sense. By your implication the magisterium can change just the stance on celibacy. OK so then what? Priests can have sex without being married?? Thats a complete contradiction of RCC policy.”

Actually some Catholic priests are married right now, and it is completely in accord with Catholic teaching. There are certain Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that allow married priests, and they are in full communion with Rome. And there are some Catholic converts who were married clergy in their former denomination (usually Anglican/Episcopalian) who were then allowed a dispensation so that they can remain active clergy (with the proper training) and are now married priests in the Roman Rite.

I think you are confusing “dogmatic” truths (which are unchangeable) like the Trinity or the Incarnation, with disciplinary practices (which can be altered as the times and necessities require) like eating fish on Fridays or the celibate priesthood. Celibate priesthood is not a dogmatic teaching. It can be altered or revised under the right circumstances.

Thomas
 
Mickey said:
Then you will never see unification. Supremacy/infallibility is an innovation.
When I was Eastern Catholic, many told me that they did not believe in infallibility–go figure. Then again, their ancestors were Orthodox. 😃
Are you saying that the Latin Church does not consider the Pope of Rome to be the supreme, infallible pontiff?
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I believe supremecy and infallibilty would be a deal breaker because it cannot be proven biblically. At least with the prots;)
 
bengal_fan said:
  1. if the orthodox and catholic church re-united, how would that impact your view of “church” and the way it is supposed to be? would it make you more likely to re-unite as well?
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It wouldn’t really effect my view of church or, I expect, my church’s view of church in the least.

It wouldn’t make me any more likely to become Cathodox, if that’s what you’re asking at the end there.
bengal_fan said:
  1. what would it take for reunification? we all know that not everyone will be unified (or re-unified) in everything. even the catholic church has 23 different rites that are valid when it comes to worship. but what do you see as the major obstacles AND (please don’t forget to address this as i am not wanting to start a “bash catholicism” thread) what are your ideas for overcoming them?
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The church is already as “unified” as it needs to be and there will only be perfect visible and confessional unity when Christ returns and not before because, until then, human beings will screw it up.
 
Hisalone said:
We are united “In Christ”. We will not be united any other way.
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Amen.

As long as we are looking for “unity” other than in Him (He is our unity), it will elude us.

Unity is not a matter of rite or polity but of inclusion in Christ.
 
That is just title no different than Servant of the Servants of God.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
I believe supremecy and infallibilty would be a deal breaker because it cannot be proven biblically. At least with the prots;)
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It can be proven Biblically. In fact, Peter declared infallibility that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.
 
Mickey said:
They are all titles. But words have meanings.
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yes. I do have a question, who is the Patriachiate of your Church? Does he not have primacy over the churches that fall under him? Why would you find the issue of the Papacy a problem. I don’t. Second, I don’t see how the EO’s position that the Church have authority when the bishops themselves did not received the keys of the kingdom.

They were like the Apostles, granted the power to bind and loose but Jesus didn’t give them the keys of kingdom. That key was entrusted to Peter alone.
 
EmergencyOps said:
The OP’s statement about “Catholics on the ground” really hit the nail on the head. My Catholic friends are, of course, “on the ground” and they are very cafeteria Catholic. For them, its more about what feels good than it is about what the Church really teaches. Like the Pew study earlier this week, many people are changing religions/denom’s and escaping the beliefs they were taught while growing up.

-Mark
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Good post, Em.

“Catholics on the ground” Ha! How true!

…can you get the Pew link and post it? The link I posted was through the New York Times website, available only to subscribers.

I think that the only chance of union among any Christian groups would be a major threat to the west by Islam. Not as a terrorist threat, but as a threat through influx and growth of observant Muslim populations. This has already started to happen.

In the US, the Protestants might unite (more—many have already united) if their denominations continue to decline.
 
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