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Prometheus1974
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That’s bang on. I was scratching my head trying to figure out how to deal with the “most” statement.
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Prometheus1974
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catsrus said:
Thank you.
Your kind words made me look like:
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tommy4321
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Hey Pro, welcome to Catholic Answers. I am checking with the moderator who put up a warning this morning on the Poll about the Bible about the length and forum rules because I have a lot to say about your essay and am waiting for Robert to give me the go ahead. I’ve been booted three times from here and want to make sure I am not getting set up. Bless God, tommy
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tommy4321
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P.S. Peter warns about being puffed up with pride. You ought to read both 1Peter and 2Peter.Thank you.
Your kind words made me look like:
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Lillith
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Really, Tommy…a compliment makes us happy…that is the “Big Grin” smiley to denote happiness, not pride…
I think it is a good thing to acknowledge good posts…
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tommy4321
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I don’t see anything brief here. The moderator and forurm rules ask that we keep quotes and questions breif, but to respond I will try and keep it brief to keep within the forum rules and guidelines and I hope the Moderator will understand that this is a two page post with multiple statements I am responding too. Please give me a warning first if this can cause a suspension.
The Bible is from God, both through His Divine inspiration and Words given to his Prophets and holy ones. Even more then just a simple inspiration. An inspiration could mean something so simple as the Beatles inspired rock n’ roll. God has abundant power, knowledge and wisdom and blessings come to those to trust in his knowledge. Followers of Satan doubt his knowledge.
The great flood that killed all but a handfull of people happended much longer than 1,000 years ago and perhaps as many as 3,000 years. I am not sure where you are getting the 1,000 years from. Adam and Eve definately lived longer than 1,000 years before Christ.
It is up to an individual free agent how much trust they wish to place in the Bible. I place my trust in the Bible. Do you think Satan trusts the Bible. I know what side I want to be on.
I do not believe it is up to man or religion to judge the authority of the Scriptures. We need to discern and as stated earlier, trust in the Bible. It is the only book that has withstood the test of time. Which book would you trust more than the Bible perhaps the Koran??? I don’t know how to spell islamic either
OK, I stand corrected here as I had previously stated that Jesus quoted Scriptures that were originally called the Torah. But I think most people know that a Bible quote and a scripture quote comes to the same conclusion
Respectfully this is the weakest quote I have read on the forum “in my opinion” and was somewhat surprised after writing it that you got pumped up and elevated to a comparison to one involved in apologetics work for having stated the Bible tells us nothing. It tells me a lot and if people followed the words more closely, people would be kinder to one another. I feel gifted and appreciative that I am able to have the Bible and it tells me ALOT,
This covers page one. Lets do page two later. P.S. welcome to Catholic Answers and I am sure you’ll have lots of friends here. Do remember when you post that Jesus’ main commandment was to express love and kindness and I am sure you’ll make it fine here. blessings, tommy
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tommy4321
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I want to be respectful also to the Islamic community. Even pope Pius VII had positive statements speaking against any racial differences around 1938 and I do believe if he had lived about five years longer we would a seen a much different reaction to the Holocaust among the Vatican “nation”.
I have learned that the greater Islamic world did not support 9/11 and were very much against it and has caused racism against the non-radical Islams who dearly want peace. It was the smaller radical group that supported 9/11 and as Revelation is played out among world powers I believe this misunderstanding could be detrimental in how the great tribulation among world powers and Christ regaining the Kingdom occurs, and ultimately winning the war of Harmagen. Trivia question, how many times does Armagedon appear in the Bible (Answer =0)
I was also surprised to Learn that the Islamic religion believes they too need to go through Jesus to get to God, the Father. Sorry if most of you knew this. However, they believe he was only a prophet which is the HUGE difference between them and Christians. Oh well, wanted to respond to your comment on Islam. tommy
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tommy4321
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At His Feet said:
Please show me one scripture in which Christians call uninvited on the home of an unbeliever, or are commanded to do so. Please show me a scripture where Christians ask for (“suggest”, “mention”) donations for literature from unbelievers. Please show a scripture where Christians are required to write down the number of hours …
The NWT has restored Jehovah’s name to the original Hebrew writings in the OT using Jehovah’s name (English translation of the Hebrew name Yahweh).
No, it was already appeared in other Bibles. It appeared in the 1901 American Stnadard Version, Darby’s Bible, and as Yahweh in Rotherham’s Translation, and others. The anonymous translators of the NWT went far beyond these other translations by putting “Jehovah” 237 times in the New Testament, when there is NOT ONE Greek manuscript, out of the thousands in existence, to support it.
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Cross and has been replaced with Torture Stake ect.**
Jesus provided instruction in how to pray in the Bible.
Yes - When his disciples asked him “Lord teach us to pray” (Luke 11:1), it seems if there was ever a time to promote the use of “Jehovah” or “Yahweh” in prayer (“make sure you use the name Jehovah” - as JWs say), this would have been the time to do it. Did he? What was the title of address that he told his discipile to use for God in what is known as The Lord’s Prayer? (Matthew 6:9-13)Hello AHF: Matthew 24:14 says “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come” Yep, thats who we are, the witnesses preaching the good news of the Kingdom and restoring Jehovah’s name.
Thats right not creating His name but restoring it. I don’t think it would have been unreasonable for Jesus to say to other people to praise and honor Yahweh, your God. He did refer to God as his Father when he spoke to his close apostles and thats why we read so much about the reference to Father. Matthew 6 quotes Jesus as saying to sanctify His name in prayer not to sanctify the title Father or title God. Numbers are important in the Bible and that is why records are kept and also they are a religion I follow.
Did Jesus say Jehovah, no because Jesus didn’t speak english and this is the english translation of Yahweh. I would not be surprised when he spoke to a group if he said, love Yahweh God, my Father. Yahweh’s name is translated into 37 different languages in addition to Jehovah.
Did jesus say to sanctify His name in Matthew 6? Do you think satan the devil would be pleased or upset if we reject His name as there are several references in the Bible about glorifying the “name” of God.
And yes the Cross. It has become an earthly object of worship. Exodus 20 tells us not to bow down in front of any object or likeness of Heaven that does not hear, walk or talk, more or less. Demons lurk on idols. Satan through his trickerly has found a way of making people bow down in front of idols and that is why the last sentence of 1John in that chapeter says dear Brothers and Sisters, stay away from idols.
If Jesus died on his Donkey when he road into Jerusalmen to knock over the money changers coins in front of the Temples, would we have a Donkey on top of every church today. We probably would. If a mother lost her child to a gun, would she wear one around her neck? No, she would not. We don’t need learning aides to worship God. Posted behind the alter we see a helpless man hanging on a cross. I do not think of Jeus as a helpless man at all and I also don’t picture him as a small helpless bably like you see when you enter this site. Sort of like if we saw former Predident Kennedy as a baby or when we was shot. In my opinion is doesn’t matter whether it was a cross or a torture stake, the fact is he died for us as a randsome for our sins and it must have been so hard for his Father Jehovah God to see his only Son die.
As a witness we carry his torture stake and thats why most members of the Hall go out preaching the good news and stand firm to protect and restore his name that religion continues to say that his name is really not that important even though it appears in Ex 6:3 of the Catholic King James Bible. I just heard is said on the Bible thread that Catholics should not have allowed that name in there Bible. Go look at the one “who brought the Bible… religion poll” and you will see a Catholic rejecting His name saying it didn’t belong there and shame on the catholics for allowing it in.
What is the problem with God’s name and why is there such an argument to reject His name? take care and I really respect your posts and see you as a Senior Member here. tommy
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tommy4321
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Thanks for sharing your story. I will agree the Witnesses are not for everbody. There has to be a special calling that you feel.
If someone is hiding something that is not right and they shouldn’t be following the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion because faithfulness is between that person and God. After five years my circle of freinds is still the same because were pretty thicked skin people. I hang out with a group of Catholic freinds and I know and we don’t talk too much religion. Most people here seem pretty faithful to their religion, but doesn’t it seem like there is a pretty large group of Catholics that are not really that interested in the Bible and are not really practicing, but just going through the motions? Maybe not as much here on the forum, but in general. I don’t see that with the Witnesses who seem real zealous and the meetings are enjoyable. I hope no one takes this wrong but I found the Masses were real boring, Jehovah’s name is lost and we were not getting much from it and now we are.
I have also found that most of my old freinds are just that, old freinds. My family doesn’t bug too much other then some comments how busy we are always attending meetings. It has worked for us so far and we feel drawn to do this and it is not that crazy. You study the Bible, discuss the scriptures and those that do the door-to-door stuff do that for about two hours a week and people are mostly not home. Some get bible stdudies going. They enjoy doing it.
It seems like when you are so much in the Truth and you see what was wrong before (the Father in the Robe, idols displayed, the same set of prayers repeated) you realize that you are following the Bible (and always have one in your hand) and you want to share it with others to help them gain salvation and show them some things to help them draw close to God.
I know this pretty wealthy lady whose kids go to school with the actor Robin Williams kid. He’s a trip, walks around picking up garbage and she yells at him to get out of the way, he doesn’t like to be recongized as an actor. She’s Catholic and her sister is in the congregation with the Witnesses. When we all get together and religion comes up, she says"Were good to go, Rudy and I are Catholic". She hasn’t been to church in months and maybe goes on Easter and Christmas and claims to be Catholic. Doesn’t make sense to me.
I think only those that feel like they are drawn by Jehovah should be in the organization. thanks again for sharing the story, tommy
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Loboto-Me
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Tommy,
The point I’m making is that if my brother in law who’s been “called” to be a witness is a “hypocryte” there must be many many more out there that are JUST like what you describe many Catholics to be. My brother in law is really zealous about meetings and the sense of community he feels attending them, please don’t doubt that. Being a JW fulfills something within him or he wouldn’t have come back after being shunned once. You tend to forget that many people who are born in a religion tend to go through the motions as well… they don’t bother to learn what their religion really entails.
When I went back to the East to live for 3 yrs, my nephew who is a grown man and is cradle JW, as well as his father (not my B-I-L) often came to visit. The father is the first husband of my B-I-L’s second wife, and the nephew is her oldest son. Yes, it’s a very strange situation that we are all friends with each other! LOL. They are "cradle JW’s and behave JUST like the Catholics you describe,but, instead of having to go to Mass, they are forced to do Service and go to Meetings… but it’s all a show. If they don’t attend meetings or go to service they start getting phone calls and visits from what I call their “overseers” that keep all JW’s in “check”. I know their being JW’s is all a show because of the way they behave behind the scenes. Guess what… They claim to be JW’s. The JW’s I know personally feel comfortable in their real skins (not putting up appearances) in front of my family because we aren’t in the “truth” and are not constantly on guard with their behaviour. If they swear, or talk about other people, or tell us they can get something for someone else (under the table), all we do is let them talk.
Just remember, your JW overseers and “friends” will behave a certain way in front of you and completely differently at home, don’t pull the wool over your eyes… they are human beings and are no more “on fire” than most Catholics I know.
Money “talks” in the JW religion, prestige is a big thing.
Also, you tend to forget that Mass however boring you found it, was not for YOUR entertainment nor for YOUR education, it was to WORSHIP like God intended for us to worship Him. Being bored at Mass should have told you that you needed to learn more about the True religion than to leave it. You should have gone to bible studies with the Catholic to learn the unadulterated scriptures. You should have found other ways of not being so bored.
I also found the Catholic faith boring (I’m a cradle Catholic) but instead of turning my back on the truth, I decided to find out more about it, I decided to make a choice (to choose my religion on my own). Learning my religion through these types of forums, and reading papal encyclicals ect woke me up and allowed me to choose to be Catholic once again.
The point I’m making is that if my brother in law who’s been “called” to be a witness is a “hypocryte” there must be many many more out there that are JUST like what you describe many Catholics to be. My brother in law is really zealous about meetings and the sense of community he feels attending them, please don’t doubt that. Being a JW fulfills something within him or he wouldn’t have come back after being shunned once. You tend to forget that many people who are born in a religion tend to go through the motions as well… they don’t bother to learn what their religion really entails.
When I went back to the East to live for 3 yrs, my nephew who is a grown man and is cradle JW, as well as his father (not my B-I-L) often came to visit. The father is the first husband of my B-I-L’s second wife, and the nephew is her oldest son. Yes, it’s a very strange situation that we are all friends with each other! LOL. They are "cradle JW’s and behave JUST like the Catholics you describe,but, instead of having to go to Mass, they are forced to do Service and go to Meetings… but it’s all a show. If they don’t attend meetings or go to service they start getting phone calls and visits from what I call their “overseers” that keep all JW’s in “check”. I know their being JW’s is all a show because of the way they behave behind the scenes. Guess what… They claim to be JW’s. The JW’s I know personally feel comfortable in their real skins (not putting up appearances) in front of my family because we aren’t in the “truth” and are not constantly on guard with their behaviour. If they swear, or talk about other people, or tell us they can get something for someone else (under the table), all we do is let them talk.
Just remember, your JW overseers and “friends” will behave a certain way in front of you and completely differently at home, don’t pull the wool over your eyes… they are human beings and are no more “on fire” than most Catholics I know.
Money “talks” in the JW religion, prestige is a big thing.
Also, you tend to forget that Mass however boring you found it, was not for YOUR entertainment nor for YOUR education, it was to WORSHIP like God intended for us to worship Him. Being bored at Mass should have told you that you needed to learn more about the True religion than to leave it. You should have gone to bible studies with the Catholic to learn the unadulterated scriptures. You should have found other ways of not being so bored.
I also found the Catholic faith boring (I’m a cradle Catholic) but instead of turning my back on the truth, I decided to find out more about it, I decided to make a choice (to choose my religion on my own). Learning my religion through these types of forums, and reading papal encyclicals ect woke me up and allowed me to choose to be Catholic once again.
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tommy4321
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Hi:
I used to give $400 a month. Now we give $25 per month and there is no pressure on the money issue. Sorry if I was insulting at all saying the Catholic Church is boring. It doesn’t need to be boring to give good praise and worship. Witness here ask for no money and hand out a multitude or material including Bible for free.
I do believe that members of not just one religion will gain salvation and there are callings for God’s followers to do many things around the world and with so many different Christian groups it is not just one that God loves. tommy
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E.E.N.S
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I find the Catholic Faith to be the fullest, richest, and most beautiful thing on this earth…you guys are crazy! (Boring, far from it!)
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catsrus
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On this I totally agree. Only God knows the human heart.
Question though:
When I was involved with jws, they insisted that they and only they, were destined for survival of Armageddon. All other followers of any other faith were to be destroyed. Their red “paradise” book was very specific on this point.
Has their view changed?
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tommy4321
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E.E.N.S. said:I find the Catholic Faith to be the fullest, richest, and most beautiful thing on this earth…you guys are crazy! (Boring, far from it!)
I apologize for stating the view that I find the mass boring. Please accept my sincere apology here. I understand that it is rewarding to practicing followers and want to admit that there were times I felt real blessed after sitting through the mass, being involved in the Church, going to nightime meetings with the Pastor and as an opened minded soul want to stand corrected here. The worship we receive now is so lively the time passes so quickly and we are actively involved in reading scriptures and giving (name removed by moderator)ut rather then just listening what is read from the altar and that is why I said that. But I do recognize that as un unfair statement to those following the faith tommy
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Loboto-Me
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We don’t call reverence boring… you fail to realize that going into a hall to congregate with people is a completely different matter than going into a Church where Christ is actually present.
Also, it’s not the money that you officially give to the Hall that I’m talking about, it’s the money that is “flashed” and given outside of the Hall… the unofficial money is very important to the Elders. They tend to overlook many things when they are offered free car repairs, free meals, free supplies.
My brother in law has many freebies to offer… my nephew’s biological dad is even richer, they own 3 businesses in a small town. This man has been brought to court for arson (almost killed my ex sister in law, her kids and my brother in law) and suspected of murder, and it is suspected that he does many shady deals with “gang and mafia”. It’s very old knowledge that people should not be “dealing” with this man other than regular business. He calls himself a JW, and has always been. Yup, the unofficial money talks in the JW world. Whether you want to believe it or not, they are NOT angels like you think. They do as many shady things as people who call themselves catholic in name only.
Also, it’s not the money that you officially give to the Hall that I’m talking about, it’s the money that is “flashed” and given outside of the Hall… the unofficial money is very important to the Elders. They tend to overlook many things when they are offered free car repairs, free meals, free supplies.
My brother in law has many freebies to offer… my nephew’s biological dad is even richer, they own 3 businesses in a small town. This man has been brought to court for arson (almost killed my ex sister in law, her kids and my brother in law) and suspected of murder, and it is suspected that he does many shady deals with “gang and mafia”. It’s very old knowledge that people should not be “dealing” with this man other than regular business. He calls himself a JW, and has always been. Yup, the unofficial money talks in the JW world. Whether you want to believe it or not, they are NOT angels like you think. They do as many shady things as people who call themselves catholic in name only.
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tommy4321
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Wow, this surprises me. We have been with them for five years and the only money that has ever changes our hands is the $25 a month we put in the box. I guess anything is possible as we are in times where Satan is roaming freely. I remember in the Catholic Church, we had something called the “large donor list”, those who gave more then $2,000 a year. It did seem to me that those who gave more money received more in return and were recognized more. However, there is not much that surprises me today. As far as money for the overssers who may be visiting I have seen luched prepared for them but never any money changing hands. There is very little focus on money at the Kingdom Hall and lots of material is handed out for free. I won’t challenge you here because I don’t fully understand what you are saying and will give you the benefit of the doubt. I am off to a Baseball Card show in San Francisco and on vacation at work this week, so have a great day and blessings your way. I did enjoy reading your story. tommy
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E.E.N.S
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Apology accepted, but not necessary…it doesn’t offend me (it might offend God however) if a person finds spending time with our brothers and sisters in Christ while heaven and earth join together to celebrate the sacrafice of the Mass and receive the Lord into our very beings to be boring.
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tommy4321
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That why I say it is important to discern. They believe that during the resurrection those following false teachings will be given the opportunity to come into the truth.
That’s why I say that I have learned that many folks from many walks or religion will find salvation and much will be revealed about praise to man, versus God, idols, fornication scandals and accepting God by his name. Also the ton of pegan non-Godly celerations like the easter bunny and Santa Claus, Saints days and a whole bunch of festivals that honor and praise someone other then the Jealous God. What do you think about the Easter bunny and Santa Claus in terms of being a pegan holday?
My only claim earlier in this thread is that a church can fade in future times but members can be saved. If one truly belives in Jesus and the true God I believe it is the Witness opinion that they will be raised during the ressurection and still given the opportunity for everlasting life with Jesus. The Witnesses do feel that during Armageddon they will be God’s chosen people and I know this view is really hard for a Catholic to grasp.
It’s the false teachings that have been an issue sinse Christs days and his apostles had one heck of a time dealing with false teachings that give praise to men and we read about other conflicts of the church in Pauls letters and these issues and times are not much better today. Please keep in mind this is my opinion. What do you think that Matthew meant when he said the road is narrow and crampted and few will find it? Are there not about a billion members of Catholic faith, so how does the narrow and crampted road apply and few will find it? Just running out today and if I don’t respond for a day or two my alloted internet time this weekend is up in my family and I am not ignoring any new posts coming in. blessings, tom
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E.E.N.S
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Remember, he was talking to Christians already - he meant WITHIN the believers that only few would find the way and persevere until the end (same as St. Paul tells us), “the road is hard…” just belonging to the Church isn’t going to cut it, afterall remember what Our Lord tells us about the lukewarm, they are in the body, but they will be “spewed out.”
Only through the Church (Christ’s Mystical Body) will one enter into heaven (He tells us so), whether we see the visible signs of that here on this earth or not…however, not everyone currently in the Body is going to make it.
Persevere to the end guided by your conscience, but as your brother in Christ, I warn you that you not in the fullness of Truth if you are not in the Catholic Church, and you [specifically] since once being in the Church in her fullness and now turning your back on her, you are making a grave mistake and I plead with you to reconsider and to come back home. (I realize that you don’t agree with me Tommy, but please remember these words.)
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tommy4321
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E.E.N.S.:
There are so many denominations that believe that Jesus was the Son of God and believe in One true God. Once I came to realize that what we were being taught about there is three God’s, but it is a mystery how they are one, I begin to question. I too believe the road is narrow and the Catholics going to mass just on easter and christmas are propably not on the narrow path. This makes up a pretty big chunk.
Here it is Saturday morning. Its 11:00 am. Already completed the family Bible study. I am waiting for my dear Brother, an elder to arrive any minute now for the second study. Tonight we prepare for tommorows talk. Torrow we sit through two lively meetings, worship is song and prayer and the rest of Sunday is felt blessed. I may even help pick weeds today at the groups of the Hall. I don’t see how this would not be pleasing in the eyes of the lords. I take your post seriously when they come up as I see you as a sincere Christian. Peace and Love dear brother, tommy
Dear E.N.N.S., you are a very caring brother in Christ and ALL of your posts demonstate a true love for brothers and sisters. As a fromer Catholic I too did believe that only one church had the ability for salvation and ALL of the others were wrong.
There are so many denominations that believe that Jesus was the Son of God and believe in One true God. Once I came to realize that what we were being taught about there is three God’s, but it is a mystery how they are one, I begin to question. I too believe the road is narrow and the Catholics going to mass just on easter and christmas are propably not on the narrow path. This makes up a pretty big chunk.
Here it is Saturday morning. Its 11:00 am. Already completed the family Bible study. I am waiting for my dear Brother, an elder to arrive any minute now for the second study. Tonight we prepare for tommorows talk. Torrow we sit through two lively meetings, worship is song and prayer and the rest of Sunday is felt blessed. I may even help pick weeds today at the groups of the Hall. I don’t see how this would not be pleasing in the eyes of the lords. I take your post seriously when they come up as I see you as a sincere Christian. Peace and Love dear brother, tommy
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