I take it when you use the term “progressive”, you mean “liberal”. Interestingly, liberal churches have a tendacy not to follow the GIRM. What about the parishes who want to follow the norms established by their bishops?Interestingly, the “progressive” parishes like to talk about how inclusive they are … except when it comes to social deviants who like to kneel.
Sorry, but I find the entire argument about danger very disingenuous. Why have we come to a point where kneeling in a Catholic Church to receive communion is now a source of danger?I get what you’re saying here, but, for the sake of looking at both sides, one could also say that they would rather spend their time in the Communion line praying rather than wondering whether the person in front of them will drop to their knees (thus thrusting their feet backwards).
I think your point only works to a certain extent. Yes, people should pay attention. But what if you have an elderly person behind you? A small child? A tall, spaced-out clumsy person (like myself)? Maybe (okay…definitely) other people are more coordinated than I am, but I simply could not take that chance.
They should follow the norms. The problem, continually, is the norms have an interpreter that many seem to dismiss.What about the parishes who want to follow the norms established by their bishops?
If the question is exclusively as you state then one answer is to stand and seek clarification through the proper channels.It is about whether one should use their right to not follow the GIRM or should they respect the priests and bishops requests to follow the norm that is established in the GIRM.
I am going to say that as something of an outsider, I don’t get the passion, anger and frustration that is exhibited here on either side. I have attended Latin rite parishes on quite a few occasions. Receiving the Eucharist, no matter what the parish, is one of the easiest things about the Liturgy. I stumble through the creed sometimes because translations are slightly different between the Melkites and Latins. I try to cross myself correctly. Usually I succeed; sometimes I realize mid-cross that I am doing it backwards and my hand twirls around in circles for a few moments and the person beside me looks over and wonders who let the crazy person in.I believe the topic of this forum wasn’t about the right to kneeling. It has been established that you cannot be denied communion for kneeling. Also this topic is not about which posture is better. It is about whether one should use their right to not follow the GIRM or should they respect the priests and bishops requests to follow the norm that is established in the GIRM.
Actually this was brought up as one of the reasons many priests would rather someone not kneel, when it is not expected and there are no accommodations. This is the #1 reason according to a priest friend of mine. Also because there are more & more people who are unable to kneel, but can stand.Sorry, but I find the entire argument about danger very disingenuous. Why have we come to a point where kneeling in a Catholic Church to receive communion is now a source of danger?
The problem is we are looking for a reason to accuse folks who kneel of bad motives.
This is exactly what is the topic of this thread. What is the best choice at this point?If the question is exclusively as you state then one answer is to stand and seek clarification through the proper channels.
What happens once that clarification is given and the lower authorities refuse to accept it?
Most of the time when I am in line I see people stopping and almost bumping into each other as one person receives the host but not the precious blood which is a few feet away. There is traffic congestion, limited confusion, and things get backed up.Actually this was brought up as one of the reasons many priests would rather someone not kneel, when it is not expected and there are no accommodations. This is the #1 reason according to a priest friend of mine. Also because there are more & more people who are unable to kneel, but can stand.
Lux
I think I have said twice now that I would stand and seek clarification.This is exactly what is the topic of this thread. What is the best choice at this point?
Lux
The probelm is the same. If one worries about injury from people bumping into each other then the solution is not to deny what one may do.Hi Fix,
I just quoted a priest friend of mine. What you are asking is another topic. We usually move the Precious Blood station further way if the station becomes too congested.
Lux
Lee: My response was in response to the OP’s clarification of his original post, specifically:I believe the topic of this forum wasn’t about the right to kneeling. It has been established that you cannot be denied communion for kneeling. Also this topic is not about which posture is better. It is about whether one should use their right to not follow the GIRM or should they respect the priests and bishops requests to follow the norm that is established in the GIRM.
This thread is not about refusing communion to those who kneel. A priest cannot do that.If the question is exclusively as you state then one answer is to stand and seek clarification through the proper channels. What happens once that clarification is given and the lower authorities refuse to accept it?
The topic of this thread is why do people insist on their “right” to kneel and lack the reverence for the bishops and priests when they have been properly catechised on the reasons for this norm.
- The priest then takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.
The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another. **The norm for reception of Holy Communion in **the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.
Actually, Lee, it has been done. In fact, a U.S. bishop was caught on videotape pulling a communicant up so she would hace to receive standing.Let’s try it one more time. This thread is not about refusing communion to those who kneel. A priest cannot do that…
Perhaps it is because the Church is unclear on this and recipients cannot imagine, for the most part, that kneeling would be considered so offensive to some – especially at Masses where the GIRM is not followed strictly on more serious matters. As long as there is a lack of clarity this will continue.The topic of this thread is why do people insist on their “right” to kneel and lack the reverence for the bishops and priests when they have been properly catechised on the reasons for this norm.
Woa, lack of reverence for bishops and priests? You mean why do so many lack reverence for the authority of Rome to interpret the law?The topic of this thread is why do people insist on their “right” to kneel and lack the reverence for the bishops and priests when they have been properly catechised on the reasons for this norm.
OK newsflash–LuxT is female, and Miss Manners reminds us that it is rude to refrain from usung someone’s name.Lee: My response was in response to the OP’s clarification of his original post, specifically:
Does anyone think that a person who desires to kneel for Communion should remain kneeling, if the priest tells him/her to stand?
In essence, the topic is about which right takes precedence. of course, the question opens up to other subjects as well as examples are drawn and related topics and concerns surface. it is in the nature of a discussion forum that this occurs, otherwise the original poster could have simply done a search and seen the numerous other threads on this same topic.