Revoke the U.S. Indult on Standing for Holy Communion

[Matariel]

Is there anyway we can petition the Holy Father in Rome to revoke the indult given to the Bishops of the Church in the U.S. making standing during Holy Communion the norm? I believe it is of grave importance to change this, as I think many Catholics have lost respect for the Eucharist— inbetween bad catechesis and standing for Communion (some don’t even bow, as is technically required) I think it’s just gone downhill from there.

 

[Phemie]

Is there anyway we can petition the Holy Father in Rome to revoke the indult given to the Bishops of the Church in the U.S. making standing during Holy Communion the norm? I believe it is of grave importance to change this, as I think many Catholics have lost respect for the Eucharist— inbetween bad catechesis and standing for Communion (some don’t even bow, as is technically required) I think it’s just gone downhill from there.

Standing is the norm, not an indult. People are free to kneel if they wish but the GIRM shows that standing is the universal norm.

While the Holy Father prefers kneeling and requests that those receiving from him do so, that’s not the norm.

 

[JRKH]

Standing is the norm, not an indult. People are free to kneel if they wish but the GIRM shows that standing is the universal norm.

While the Holy Father prefers kneeling and requests that those receiving from him do so, that’s not the norm.

Are you sure about this?
I was watching the dedication mass for the Chapel at the FSSP seminary yesterday and I am sure that the commentators said that the norm is kneeling and that the US has an Indult for standing.

Peace
James

 

[Like]

Check this out…
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5608

And scroll down a bit to click on link to National Catholic Reporter.

 

[Canto]

Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[90.] “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.

[91.] In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them”. Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.

[92.] Although each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice, if any communicant should wish to receive the Sacrament in the hand, in areas where the Bishops’ Conference with the recognitio of the Apostolic See has given permission, the sacred host is to be administered to him or her. However, special care should be taken to ensure that the host is consumed by the communicant in the presence of the minister, so that no one goes away carrying the Eucharistic species in his hand. If there is a risk of profanation, then Holy Communion should not be given in the hand to the faithful.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Institutio generalis Missalis Romani

1. Sacerdos deinde accipit patenam vel pyxidem, et accedit ad communicandos, qui de more processionaliter approprinquant.

Non licet ipsis fidelibus panem consecratum neque calicem sacrum per semetipsos accipere eo minus de manu in manum inter se transmittere.

Fideles communicant genuflexi vel stantes, prout Conferentia Episcoporum statuerit.

Cum autem stantes communicant, commendatur ut debitam reverentiam, ab iisdem normis statuendam, ante susceptionem Sacramenti faciant.

I do not think a decision properly within the competence of the Conference of Bishops can be called an indult. :twocents:

tee

 

[Revs96]

Institutio generalis Missalis Romani

I do not think a decision properly within the competence of the Conference of Bishops can be called an indult. :twocents:

tee

Indult or not it needs to go. Communion is treated too casually.

 

[puzzleannie]

Is there anyway we can petition the Holy Father in Rome to revoke the indult given to the Bishops of the Church in the U.S. making standing during Holy Communion the norm? I

no not until you reverse the architectural changes that ravaged churches 40 yrs ago–without btw any support from any V2 document–
return the communion rails and kneeling benches which placed you at the optimal position for receiving communion on the tongue
the two abuses, standing and receiving in the hand to together IMO, you can’t change one without changing the other, and two generations later, going into the 3rd, it may be too late

 

[tee_eff_em]

the two abuses, standing and receiving in the hand to together IMO,

Even more than calling it an indult, I would be extremely reluctant to call a decision, properly and officially delegated to the Conference of Bishops, an abuse. :twocents:

Nor would I call what is an indult (reception in the hand), lawfully granted by the Holy See, an abuse.

Maybe that’s just me.

tee

 

[PJM]

=Matariel;6360317]Is there anyway we can petition the Holy Father in Rome to revoke the indult given to the Bishops of the Church in the U.S. making standing during Holy Communion the norm? I believe it is of grave importance to change this, as I think many Catholics have lost respect for the Eucharist— inbetween bad catechesis and standing for Communion (some don’t even bow, as is technically required) I think it’s just gone downhill from there.

Standing to receive Christ is an insignifiant issue in reguards the loss of Faith in the Real Presence, when compared to the abusive use of Ordinary ministers of the Eucharist [lay folk as asistant priest].

I do not deny the signifiance of removal of Communion rails; which opened the gates of desent and disobedience.

This is the REAL problem, the very foundation of the mass-exdous of the Mass, by millions of lost souls

Dear God have Mercy on us; save your Church!

 

[Phemie]

Standing to receive Christ is an insignifiant issue in reguards the loss of Faith in the Real Presence, when compared to the abusive use of Ordinary ministers of the Eucharist [lay folk as asistant priest].

I take it that your use of the term “Ordinary ministers of the Eucharist” here is sarcasm directed at the abusive overuse of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion.

 

[malphono]

Even more than calling it an indult, I would be extremely reluctant to call a decision, properly and officially delegated to the Conference of Bishops, an abuse. :twocents:

Nor would I call what is an indult (reception in the hand), lawfully granted by the Holy See, an abuse.

Maybe that’s just me.

True, neither is an “abuse” in and of itself, but both can (and have) lead to abuses.

Regarding kneeling in particular, even though it’s not an “indult” properly speaking, Redemptionis Sacramentum is clear that it is always an acceptable posture.

 

[ProVobis]

Nor would I call what is an indult (reception in the hand), lawfully granted by the Holy See, an abuse.

Call it what you want but consider that technically it may not be allowed at all:

(References from tldm.org/News5/CinH2.htm)

Pope Paul VI established several hurdles to slow this disobedient practice from spreading. In Memoriale Domini he stated four restrictions:

(a) the indult could only be requested if Communion in the hand was an already established custom (i.e., disobedient abuse) in the country, and

(b) if “by a secret vote and with a two-thirds majority” the episcopal conference petitions Rome,

(c) then Rome would grant the necessary permission,

(d) once the permission was granted, several conditions had to exist simultaneously (among these conditions, no loss of sacred particles and no loss of faith in the Real Presence), or Communion in the hand was not permitted, even with the indult. These conditions are outlined in “En réponse à la demande,” which is attached to the Memoriale Domini instruction.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Call it what you want

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.*

but consider that technically it may not be allowed at all

Unless or until a legitimate authority revokes the current permission, *technically it is allowed.
( See? )

tee

 

[ProVobis]

Unless or until a legitimate authority revokes the current permission, *technically *it is allowed.

So is driving a couple of miles over the speed limit. Or any other violation done in front of legitimate authority going unpunished or even completely ignored. But I’ll concede the point for now. I did say it MAY not have been legitimately allowed; if there was someone to pressure them to disobey the Pope or skirt around his directives, then it’s on their conscience. I don’t wish to participate.

 

[katrntogo]

Is there anyway we can petition the Holy Father in Rome to revoke the indult given to the Bishops of the Church in the U.S. making standing during Holy Communion the norm? I believe it is of grave importance to change this, as I think many Catholics have lost respect for the Eucharist— inbetween bad catechesis and standing for Communion (some don’t even bow, as is technically required) I think it’s just gone downhill from there.

While that is a nice thought, how would that effect those of us who can’t kneel with both knees? Would exceptions be made? I kneel in the pew but have one leg extended out underneath the pew in front because it will not bend properly, nor support me with it bent (& I am a smaller person (5’6" -125 lbs), not obese - I say that because I posed that question once & was told maybe if I lost weight my knee would support me).

 

[corsair]

So an Indult was granted to receive in the hand and the various Bishop’s Councils could petition for the Indult, which many did. After the Indult was granted, the various Councils then made it the “Norm”.

So technically it can be called both an Indult and a Norm.

Puzzleannie, I disagree that it could not be reversed “because of the ravages of churches”.

Several Prie Dieux could be set up in a row. we do this whenever we hold a Dominican Mass at church. There are ways aound this problem. Not that its going to happen soon.

 

[Cristiano]

Is there anyway we can petition the Holy Father in Rome to revoke the indult given to the Bishops of the Church in the U.S. making standing during Holy Communion the norm? I believe it is of grave importance to change this, as I think many Catholics have lost respect for the Eucharist— inbetween bad catechesis and standing for Communion (some don’t even bow, as is technically required) I think it’s just gone downhill from there.

It is not going to happen! If you look at how BXVI is doing things, he will probably propose a change but I do not believe that he will mandate a change of that magnitude.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The Church is not a democracy. There is no tradition of petitions in the Church.

Standing for Holy Communion is the norm in some of the Eastern Catholic Churches so it can not be an evil.

I do not think such a petition would work.

You might be better off going to your local bishop and trying to get it changed in your diocese because if it is an indult then the bishop can decide not to allow it.

 

[Theophorus]

It is not going to happen! If you look at how BXVI is doing things, he will probably propose a change but I do not believe that he will mandate a change of that magnitude.

You’re quite right its not his style. Pope Benedict XVI has shown us the best way to do things, kneeling and on the tongue, but I very much doubt he will mandate it.
Lets just get one thing straight, Reception of the host in the hand and/or standing started out as abuses in the latin Church. Rome granted exemptions, that is to say indults, to individual Bishop’s conferences. Any Bishop could suspend communion in the hand tomorrow, the same is true I think with communion standing.