Rich Clergy?

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james_dillaplai

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In the Catholic Church the priests live in poverty and as far as i know donate any profit they make to charities, yet from what i see alot of Non-Catholic clergy seem to live in luxury. Why is it that they dont donate most of their excess profit. (sorry if the title does not fit the content of this message to anyone i didnt really have a title)
 
james_dillaplai said:
In the Catholic Church the priests live in poverty and as far as i know donate any profit they make to charities, yet from what i see alot of Non-Catholic clergy seem to live in luxury. Why is it that they dont donate most of their excess profit. (sorry if the title does not fit the content of this message to anyone i didnt really have a title)
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Clergy who belong to religious orders take a vow of poverty and income is held by the order. Priests who serve under a Bishop in a Diocese do not take a vow of poverty and may own property (etc). I have known a couple of Priests who have nice homes in an upscale neighborhood and also both had condos in a ski resort (personal property). One had a Jaguar (he bought).

Yes, in general Protestant clergy are paid better (eg Episcoplians and Southern Baptist clergy from large churches,etc). However, it is hard to make generalizations. I read somewhere that Rick Warren (Purpose Driven) life reversed the Tithe. He decided to give 90% to God and keep 10% of the Profit on his Books. Astounding. He also refunded the salary his mega church had given him.

Similarly, I am sure that what Fr. Corapi makes goes to the SOLT (his order).

There are Tele Evaneglist types (Word of Faith) living large. But then a year or so ago there were two RC Priests arrested for embezzlement (big bucks in wealthy parishes).

It crosses denominational lines.
 
Actually, diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty. They are supposed to live simply, however.

Most Protestant clergy I know of are middle class folks.

The rich ones are the TV evangelists. They ask for money for their program, and yet it ends up in their back pocket.
 
As far as I know, clergy are supposed to live in poverty, but that doesn’t mean they do not have money. I did work for a nun and she had a bank account, albeit very little money. I don’t know why many Protestant clerics live in wealth. I guess they would consider it God’s blessing. I do not know of many personally who do live in wealth. Many make enough to support their families without luxury, so I would hesitate to say non-Catholics in general. I know an Orthodox priest who likewise struggles, even more than he would have as a Catholic priest because he still has to pay out of pocket now. Many of those whom you speak of are televangelists who have thousands of members and thousands more who watch. Those who preach a message of health-n-wealth also encourage large donations with the idea that GOD will bless those who donate with more. In that way, they easily make over a quarter-million a year. I know that the woman who founded American Atheist likewise lived in much wealth. I believe she aquired several million dollars…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
im going to apologize for the way i phrased that question. i seem to be very bad at phrasing questions here if you look at my other threads
 
First thing is, being rich is not a sin. For most of us, money is the only thing between us and the wolf at the door - we are comletely out of touch with our hunting and farming roots, and would not be able to look after ourselves without being able to buy our necessities from a store.

Second, the majority of priests live very simply, but they do have spending money, and they can buy cars and houses, if they want to. One priest I know has a house out in the country that he rents out, that he will live in when he retires. Another priest I know likes nice cars. There is nothing wrong with this.

The problem comes when someone is raising money in a deceptive manner - send me all your money and then God will love you, and this kind of garbage.
 
im whipped its kind of an instinct to apoligize for most of what i do. if u have a very meek and shy personality and an ex-abusive mother thats one of the outcomes. (being whipped)
 
james_dillaplai said:
im whipped its kind of an instinct to apoligize for most of what i do. if u have a very meek and shy personality and an ex-abusive mother thats one of the outcomes. (being whipped)
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Sorry to hear that…😦

It looks like you joined this forum on my birthday 👍
 
james_dillaplai said:
In the Catholic Church the priests live in poverty and as far as i know donate any profit they make to charities, yet from what i see alot of Non-Catholic clergy seem to live in luxury. Why is it that they dont donate most of their excess profit. (sorry if the title does not fit the content of this message to anyone i didnt really have a title)
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There are a number of differences that come into play as you are not comparing apples to apples.

First, priests may live without a lot of personal income, but you do have to factor in that the Church is paying for their housing, health care, continuing education, supporting them in retirement, etc. I don’t know if they have to buy their own vestments, food, buy and keep up their own cars, etc or if any of that is covered by the Church in some way. They also have job security. That is not an insubstantial amount of benefits that would have to come out of the income of most folks. They also are not supporting a family on that income.

Secondly, I do not have the impression that the Pope, archbishops, bishops, etc are living in abject need, nor should they be. I am guessing that you may be comparing those clergy that you see and that your impression of the average salary of a Protestant minister may be skewed by those you see on television and some from prominent (read “large”) local churches, not small struggling ones where the minister has to have a second (or primary) job other than ministry to survive and support his or her family.

Couple of interesting articles on this topic–
pulpitandpew.duke.edu/billhowardarticle.pdf

jobbankusa.com/ohb/ohb063.html
I had not realized that priests were exempt from paying income taxes because of the vow of poverty and having the order hold their earnings. This is not, as far as I know, the case for Protestant clergy.
 
KarenNC said:
I had not realized that priests were exempt from paying income taxes because of the vow of poverty and having the order hold their earnings. This is not, as far as I know, the case for Protestant clergy.
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Protestant clergy have very strange tax status. They are considered self-employed for social security purposes (thus paying ALL of their social security instead of half) and have to pay social security tax on the fair rental value of their parsonage, yet are considered employees for federal tax purposes and thus cannot file a Schedule C for business expenses. So most clergy work by reimbursable expense accounts.

So if you thought you were rich, by the time April 15th rolls around, you are returned to humility and poverty. 🙂
 
What I don’t like about non-Catholics is that they say the Vatican is very wealthy. They don’t understand that my pope sits on the chair of St. Peter. It is all history made over the centuries that we have beautiful art etc…
When I watch a Protestant television station for that moment, they constantly say send money, one said send $100.00 by Christmas, they sit on lavish gold thrones (only our King should be allowed to do that).
 
james_dillaplai said:
In the Catholic Church the priests live in poverty and as far as i know donate any profit they make to charities, yet from what i see alot of Non-Catholic clergy seem to live in luxury. Why is it that they dont donate most of their excess profit. (sorry if the title does not fit the content of this message to anyone i didnt really have a title)
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neither of your generalizations is true either of all Catholic clergy, or of all non-Catholic clergy.

Priests do NOT make a “profit” from their ministry. Diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty; they receive a salary, standard for all priests in the diocese, and usually a home provided by their parish, and a mileage allowance. They may accept stipends or donations for saying Mass for special intentions, or for sacraments, but NEVER is there a mandatory fee for either. Use of those stipends is ruled by canon law, and of course subject to all civil tax laws. He may also have private sources of money such as family or investments, and is in fact expected to save for his retirement from current income. Many or most priests do enjoy the luxury of giving in charity from their private means. Order priests usually do take a vow of poverty, and anything they acquire belongs to their order, although they may be allowed the use of it for their needs.

donations from parishioners must be used for their designated purpose: support of the parish, paying for ordinary needs and overhead, capital expenses and buildings, for the poor and needy and special collections. they do NOT accrue personally to the pastor as “profit”.

There are as many varieties of lifestyle among non-Catholic clergy as there are among those whom they serve. I recall Billy Graham saying a Protestant pastor should receive a salary and living allowance which would enable him and his family to live in the same manner as those in his congregation.
 
james_dillaplai said:
In the Catholic Church the priests live in poverty and as far as i know donate any profit they make to charities, yet from what i see alot of Non-Catholic clergy seem to live in luxury. Why is it that they dont donate most of their excess profit. (sorry if the title does not fit the content of this message to anyone i didnt really have a title)
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I agree that this is the general impression, but as others have pointed out its a mixed bag in all demoniations. I have known one Baptist minister fairly well, and he tells me that most of them struggle to make ends meet, while a few make tons of money. I think that most evangelicals find the extremes of the wealthy mega-church pastors as distasteful as many Catholics do.

Catholic clergy have some pretty good “perks”. There is the housing and other support that has been mentioned. Another big point is job security. Most evangelical ministers can be fired by their congregation - and it happens a lot. The guy I knew eventually became a military chaplain, partly to serve but also partly because the pay was better and the job was secure.

I have known a few priests that were pretty well off. My mother was friends with a nun that became fairly wealthy (at least by my family’s standards!) from her work – she was an educator and wrote a lot of books.

The big difference, it seems to me, is that for some demoninations it is at least possible to get wealthy from preaching, whereas all the Catholics I have known to have money got in from family or from non-theological work.
 
Righteousone said:
What I don’t like about non-Catholics is that they say the Vatican is very wealthy. They don’t understand that my pope sits on the chair of St. Peter. It is all history made over the centuries that we have beautiful art etc.
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The Vatican is very wealthy.
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,833509,00.html
nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Europe/Vatican-City-POVERTY-AND-WEALTH.html

That that wealth has been accumulated over time does not make it irrelevant or somehow more inherently “pure”. A great many wealthy families are so because of wealth accumulated over generations and a great many of those are great philanthropists, as are many folks who have made their own fortunes.

The Pope does indeed control a vast amount of resources and can hardly be said to be living the lifestyle of a homeless person in Bangladesh or even a subsistence farmer in Appalachia or an inner-city single mother in Detroit. I doubt that the Pope has to worry about where his next meal is coming from, if he is going to have to live in the Popemobile (or buy gas for it) because he couldn’t pay the rent or whether he can afford to pay for his medication or health care.

To claim he lives in poverty would be disingenuous. That is not to say that he therefore lives a flamboyant, jetsetting lifestyle misusing funds either.
When I watch a Protestant television station for that moment, they constantly say send money, one said send $100.00 by Christmas, they sit on lavish gold thrones (only our King should be allowed to do that).
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Are you being metaphorical or do you mean that some televangelists actually have gold thrones? Not having access to broadcast TV or cable (or being Christian), I haven’t paid much attention to them in recent years, but none of the ones I saw growing up and into my adulthood did so (my family was very into a number of televangelists). Given some of them, it wouldn’t totally surprise me, however.

No argument here that one should not divert funds given to other purposes for one’s own use, if that is indeed what Benny Hinn does (I do not know). I am singularly unimpressed overall with any of the televangelists. However, Benny Hinn is no more representative of the lifestyle of most Protestant clergy than Tom Cruise or Bill Gates are representative of the lifestyles of most Americans. As to that, the Pope is also not representative of the lifestyle of most Catholic clergy.

It is possible to serve when one knows where one’s food and shelter are coming from as well as when one is living in poverty. In fact, I would hazard a guess that it might enable one to serve more effectively.
 
I once went past a protestant church, and parked in back behind gates were two $100,000 Dodge Vipers, with plates indicating Rev and Ms. Rev! Must be nice!

re: assertions of Vatican’s wealth. I checked the two items cited by KarenNC and they don’t support the notion. Much of the so-called wealth of the Catholic Church is in hard, fixed assets that could hardly be sold. And the church holds them in common patrimony for mankind. . . the classic example being Michaelangelo’s paintinig of the Sistine Chapel. And of course, the more liquid assets are tied to existing charity pledges in many instances. . . which means these amounts really don’t factor in the calculation.

An editor, Fr. King, I believe is his name, from America magazine wrote a book a number of years ago about the Vatican bureaucracy, organization, etc. He said that in the 1960s, the pope blew out the treasury spending like mad on Africa and the far east, and pretty much emptied out everything. American philanthropists in the 1980s then were approached for financial help, which wasn’t given until the Vatican agreed to institute more business methods, computerization, etc.
 
It depends on the order, for example…Father Groeschel who belongs to the Franciscan Friar order, took a vow of poverty…not all nuns and priests do though.
 
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