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estesbob
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Perfect example as to why we need to get the government out of the education business and allow vouchers for parents to send their children to the school of their choice.
Rick Santorum: Let’s call secularism a religion so it can be banned from the classroom
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Path_Finder
Guest
So you have no problem if Fundamental Christianity is put on par with Druidism for example.
Rick is correct in that, despite the reason that would say “Secularism” is NOT a religion, we are definitely having Secular Values put upon us and I think that is a sign of a belief system which must be close to what religion would be.
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Path_Finder
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At least Federal Government and Lobbyists with agendas, NEA, etc.
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Path_Finder
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NEA, another organization that is funded with Tax payer monies as far as I know and endorses candidates for President. What a racket!
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RACJ
Guest
None of the secularists want to accept that there is any other way of seeing the world, and that THEIR method of teaching and their enforcement of rules tramples on the rights and beliefs of anyone else. I love Rick Santorum!
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abucs
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Amen.
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Path_Finder
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Path_Finder
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:tiphat::clapping:
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Havard
Guest
- Yes, calling secularism a religion is problematic if you’re being overly literal, but this is just a tactical/paradigm shift.
- Santorum doesn’t want the state to promote any religion at all.
- I imagine he would advocate certain religions receiving more instruction time based upon their representation in both current society as well as their affect on local, national, and world history. We prioritize already, e.g., it makes sense that Polynesian history and culture receives plenty of instruction time and attention in Hawaii, but less so in Kentucky.
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mikekle
Guest
No, it is… its basically consumerism, worship of material items, expensive items, doing whatever makes you feel good whenever you like, etc.He makes a good point, but it would never fly, this is a ‘religion’ people LOVE to be a part of, with no negativity! So, even if it was labeled a ‘religion’ no one would fight it like they do with most other religions.
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St_Francis
Guest
The use of language as a metaphor is great in this case. What happens when a child is raised without access to a language, as was once the case with children who were born deaf?
They fill that space. Deaf children create a sign language; twins create private languages; children raised with a pidgeon language turn it into a creole.
In the same way, the absence of religion creates a vacuum in the human psyche, a vacuum which other ideas rush into to fill.
How so? Religion shows us our top priority, our deity. Secularism says it is not a religion because there is no personal deity involved, but there is still a top priority: Man. Man is the top priority, the measure of all things, thus the deity.
Religion proposes certain tenets of morality. Secularism certainly does that.
Religions have a creation story… and secularism was only able to really take off when there was an alternate creation story made available to it.
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Tajho
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“Religion proposes certain tenets of morality. Secularism certainly does that.”
StFrancis, I ask this in probably my naivete. What I know of secularism in the classroom comes from my child and grandchildren, basically from things that have been discussed and looked at in our homes, I gather that secularism has no morality. There is no morality since nothing can be labeled moral or immoral in that such categorizing is prejudiced and not allowed by secularism. I know that is a broad statement and I mean it in general. Does not secularism then lead students to establish their personal ethics without and effective sense of morality?
StFrancis, I ask this in probably my naivete. What I know of secularism in the classroom comes from my child and grandchildren, basically from things that have been discussed and looked at in our homes, I gather that secularism has no morality. There is no morality since nothing can be labeled moral or immoral in that such categorizing is prejudiced and not allowed by secularism. I know that is a broad statement and I mean it in general. Does not secularism then lead students to establish their personal ethics without and effective sense of morality?
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manualman
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I think it’s unfortunate the way he chose words. I think he’s precisely right about the problem, but would have phrased it differently. EVERYBODY has a religious worldview. The Founding Fathers clearly intended for the government NOT to take a side on religious matters and permit freedom of conscience. This is not the case today. Atheists assert that atheism isn’t a religion, so it’s perfectly OK for DE-FACTO atheism to be the worldview taught in public schools. This is dishonest in the extreme.
The answer is actually quite simple. Go back to the intention of the founders. Give PARENTS the right of direction over the funding allocated for educating each student. This amount can be supplemented in cases of special needs (special ed, speech therapy, etc). Essentially vouchers.
HOWLING and PROTEST from the atheists, of course. YOU can’t use taxpayer money and send it to religious organizations? Why not, we are right now? We spend untold billions every year funding an organization that might as well list ‘de-facto atheism’ as it’s official religion. Which is the real reason for their opposition. They like domination rather than real freedom for all.
Parents in America today who want their children educated in an environment of Christian worldview are forced to pay twice. We’re a sort of Dhimmi class in our own nation. We must pay the jizya of school property taxes and then forfeit it all and pay AGAIN if we want our kids educated as we see fit. It’s just that instead of being dominated by Islam, we’re under the boot of secularism - the nearly official religious viewpoint of the USA (Constitution be danged). We don’t SAY that there is no God. We just talk, think and behave as if there isn’t one.
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glendab
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How many more Sandy Hook’s and Columbine’s are going to happen before we realize there is a big problem with what goes on in the God-less halls of our public educational system? Those same children that spend the majority of their waking hours working in an environment that is without as much reference to Christianity as they can get away with, grow in that environment and it leave a psychic imprint that will seem normal to them in the world as they leave and head for the workplaces. It seems normal to live and work without any mention of God or Jesus Christ or the Church so much so that when they do experience our religion, it seems foreign to them! They unconsciously expect to work in an environment similar to that they knew in school. It really is a powerful example. To them, religion is something they can do in private, in the dark, alone or with their families but NEVER in public! And they follow this example as if it is the good thing to do and those who practice their religion to be seen are NOT NORMAL as in there is something WRONG with them! It seems foreign to the psychic imprint that was the right thing for 7 to 8 hours a day, five days a week for 12 plus years. Secular Atheism presented all those days as something acceptable, even good and what is best for our social construct. Religion is a negative especially Christianity. They’ve lived with freedom FROM religion, not freedom OF religion. And it has become what they expect and subconsciously promote without even knowing they are doing it. They are simply doing what they were taught was the right and acceptable thing in a “free” society. This is anything but free. This is nothing new. It has been going on for more than a generation and it won’t stop until it is found to be unconstitutional and an infringement upon the religious liberties of all Americans. It is too real. But it happened. It is a part of the American public school landscape. They get told they have a right to practice their religion of choice, just not on school grounds or at the Mall either! HUH???
Oh well, I’ll step down off my little soap box. Sorry if I bored or offended any. Please forgive me. Bland is a hard color for me to wear.
Glenda
Oh well, I’ll step down off my little soap box. Sorry if I bored or offended any. Please forgive me. Bland is a hard color for me to wear.
Glenda
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glendab
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Hello Tajho.
The are no ethics without morality. Morals form ethics. The fewer morals, the less chance that a person will behave ethically. Remove all morals and you have anarchy and not long after that, the man with the biggest club wins and might makes right!
Glenda
To a secularist what is immoral is your practice of your religion in their sight or earshot. To them you are imposing by living what you believe especially in the public sector.
The are no ethics without morality. Morals form ethics. The fewer morals, the less chance that a person will behave ethically. Remove all morals and you have anarchy and not long after that, the man with the biggest club wins and might makes right!
Glenda
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RACJ
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Well stated Glenda, but the left will claim that these massacres occur b/c of our armed populace. They can’t handle the truth, as someone once said.
I have a problem with equivocation as well.
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St_Francis
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LOL–you probably know more about this than I do then, as my children are homeschooled! Given my limited experience, which is what i experienced in school, what I read about is going on, and through the internet, it seems that there is something of a morality to secularism, and it comes in two parts.
The first is what comes through making Man the deity. Certain crimes, like theft, crimes against a person, etc., are considered “wrong” because they violate the autonomy of the individual. Abortion, however, is permitted because the unborn child is violating the mother’s autonomy by existing inside her.
The second, imo, comes through an excessive preoccupation with what they call equality and which I call sameness. This purports to be an effort to make things fair so that there will be no conflict, and hence no war.
Any attempt to be not-the-same is considered a violation, so there is the violation of divisiveness, which is bringing up differences, esp if one of the different things is put in a negative light by so doing.
Appeasement is considered a great good, because by appeasing, the aggressor will see that we are nice and thus trustworthy, and give up his aggressive tendencies, which are created by the unfairness he has experienced.
I have to admit that one of the main problems I see in schools is the lack of uplifting. Nobility of character, justice, kindness, all are flattened into mushiness by the secular morality of everyone’s being the same.
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Lion_IRC
Guest
These days the word “secular” is code for atheism.
It’s Newspeak.
We all know why ‘secularists’ want religion out of the public square!
…so they can have it all to themselves.
It’s Newspeak.
We all know why ‘secularists’ want religion out of the public square!
…so they can have it all to themselves.
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Mulligan2
Guest
When I said Rick Santorum was not being ‘serious’, I meant that his musings were absurd and nonsensical. He was, however, likely being serious in that he earnestly believed what he was saying.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
:clapping:
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