Rick Santorum Thread

[Semper_Zelare]

caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/12/santorum-in-iowa-catholic-bishops-are-wrong-on-immigration/

Thought I’d post this, I just found it too interesting not to. [He did not actually use the word wrong, as it turns out]

This is probably the most eye raising quote:

“If we develop the program like the Catholic bishops suggested we would be creating a huge magnet for people to come in and break the law some more, we’d be inviting people to cross this border, come into this country and with the expectation that they will be able to stay here permanently,” said Santorum, who usually attends Latin Mass with his family at a Catholic church in suburban Washington, D.C.

So, is it wise for Santorum to say something like this? I mean, I imagine this might lose some of the few voters he has. I’m sure some Catholics are supporting him, well doesn’t this lose some of that vote… openly criticizing the Bishops?

Anyways, the second most interesting part, is that the article confirms that Santorum and his family attend Latin Mass in Washington D.C. I mean, irregardless of his weak chances of winning the GOP nomination… you can’t say that about too many politicians I’d reckon. Probably even less on the national level.

The only other 2 I’d suspect of going to Latin Mass aren’t even politicians, they’re judges: Scalia and Alito. Anyways, we need him to be in government somewhere. I hope he gets appointed to some cabinet position. If that doesn’t happen, I hope he runs again for public office somewhere. We need good Catholics in government.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I am with Rick Santorum, I disagree with the Bishops on this. This is a step to far. It is one thing to call for immigration reform, it is another to make a statement like these 33 Bishops have done to say we should be thanking illegal immigrants even though they have broken the law. It is a little bit of insult to every legal immigrant, though I am sure the Bishops are not doing this purposely. You shouldn’t say contempt for the law is acceptable.

Pope Benedict said states have the right to defend borders

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

2241 (b) Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, paragraph 298, says:

Regulating immigration according to criteria of equity and balance is one of the indispensable conditions for ensuring that immigrants are integrated into society with the guarantees required by recognition of their human dignity.

I think I agree with Newt’s Gingrich’s position on immigration, you have to deal with a subset of the people who are there and who fit the credentials for legality, not citizenship and no right to vote. But you have to secure the borders. Not only because of the problem with illegal immigration, but because of the trafficking of drugs, guns and people. It should be a national security priority.

I do not think rejecting the Bishop’s stance on illegal immigration is on par with rejecting doctrinal stances of the Church such as on abortion.

I think the Bishops should be concerned about how breaking licit laws is affecting the souls of the people breaking them.

I wish the Bishops would call for changes in the legal visa system.

 

[_Abyssinia]

The Bishops also said, “The lack of a just, humane and effective reform of immigration laws negatively affects the common good of the United States…”

Whether that is true or not, should that be used as an excuse to break the law? There are laws that people do not agree with, but why should that be a reason for you to break the law. Where is that idea found in Catholic teaching?

 

[RyanBlack]

I don’t care at all for Rick Santorum, but I’m going to defend him here. I don’t agree with Santorum on immigration, and my own stance is much closer to that of the bishops, but this is an area, unlike abortion or other intrinsic evils, where Catholics are not bound to a particular policy position. There is room for a wide variety of policy positions, provided that the nation’s right to secure its borders is balanced with the scriptural mandate concerning hospitality to the stranger.

 

[charliedrake]

All is welcome, just enter the country legally and accept the culture.

 

[raaucoin]

All is welcome, just enter the country legally and accept the culture.

Yes ! Accept the culture: become regular attendees of the symphony and Broadway musicals… I mean- become familiar with all of the Motown greats…-I mean get involved in the next Pow-Wow…no! I mean learn to play the accordian, sing Cajun songs and prepare for the next boucherie…Oh wait… i mean get your family to the next big clam bake…oops! I mean- there’s a few thousand head of cattle that need…no that’s not it!..the state fair! uh–the Blessing of the fleet on the east, west, no gulf coast…no the Christmas parade in New york, I mean the boat parade in Petit Caillou…Forget all of that… Just get to Church… The Cathedral- no Synagogue I mean Mosque ok the Temple. Oh Come on Man! Just accept the Culture!

 

[austenbosten]

The problem the Bishops don’t understand is this. People entering either legally or illegally and are not assimilating or at least trying to assimilate with the culture will eventually end in Balkanization, cultural decline and then national decline (which is bad for everyone).

Also Milton Friedman said this best:

You can either have free immigration or a welfare state but you cannot have both.

So if this is what the Bishops are looking at, as we should have free immigration over welfare like Social Security, Food Stamps, Gov’t Housing, Farm Aid, Corporate Aid, Medicare, Medicaid ect and return to private charity which might bring people back to Christ…then it would make sense to me. However the Bishops plan seems to lack foresight of history and political reality.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Pls, pls, pls hold on one sec can someone tell me what the bishops said

 

[jediliz]

I agree partially with Santourum.

We should also NOT encourage illegal immigration. We should encourage coming by legal means. Now those who are here already illegally, they should NOT get a free ride. If they want to be in the land of the free, learning English is a must. Then they could be bilingual. Being Bilingual would actually be helpful for them, as many jobs these days probably could use someone who is bilingual.

We should not toss EVERYONE out…but if they want privileges, we’re not handing them any on a silver platter.

And many of you know these immigrants are more willing to do hard labor that some Americans aren’t willing to do or work places some won’t work, like meat packing plants.

 

[austenbosten]

Yes ! Accept the culture: become regular attendees of the symphony and Broadway musicals… I mean- become familiar with all of the Motown greats…-I mean get involved in the next Pow-Wow…no! I mean learn to play the accordian, sing Cajun songs and prepare for the next boucherie…Oh wait… i mean get your family to the next big clam bake…oops! I mean- there’s a few thousand head of cattle that need…no that’s not it!..the state fair! uh–the Blessing of the fleet on the east, west, no gulf coast…no the Christmas parade in New york, I mean the boat parade in Petit Caillou…Forget all of that… Just get to Church… The Cathedral- no Synagogue I mean Mosque ok the Temple. Oh Come on Man! Just accept the Culture!

Yeah because Germans man the culture is nothing but Sauerkraut and Lederhosen.

Italy is nothing but a bunch of terrific loving womanizers who are all Catholic and ride Vespa bikes.

French all smell, never bathe, never shave, eat only frogs legs, terrific lovers (if you can stand to smell them) all them men have mustaches and so do the women. Every Frenchmen wears a striped sailors shirt and a beret. They also say “Wee Wee” and laugh like Maurice Chevalier “Houghn Houghn Houghn!”

Spainards are all Catholic and like bulls anything anything related to bulls.

Greeks are always fishing and being mistaken for Italians and every Greek hates the lousy Turks!

Austrians…HAVE NO CULTURE!! IT’S GERMAN!!!

Russians all wear fur caps…all the women are super hot with piercing blue eyes. They all drink vodka and eat borscht. Oh and they all love Stalin.

Sweden all the women are supermodels and eat Swedish meatballs, work at IKEA and all drive Saabs or Volvos

Norway wishes they were Sweden

Finland wishes they were Sweden

Iceland wishes they were Sweden

Denmark is torn between wishing to be Sweden or Germany

Britain they all wear bowler hats, three-piece suits and walk with an umbrella, oh they also eat only Bangers and Mash and constantly say things like “Cheerio” and “Old Chap”

Ireland they all are ginger kids, drink copious amount of beer and eat only potatoes and will die if there is a famine in spite of being an island surrounded by water. They also all riverdance, and play the harp. Every Irish is secretly a leprechaun and loves shamrocks and has a pot o’ gold at the end of the rainbow…oh and the Northern Irish are all terrorists and hates Catholics, Protestants, British, and Irish…unless of course they are one of these.

In China everyone works in a rice paddy and wears those pointy straw hats, they also are Kung-Fu masters and shaolin monks everyone of them

Japan every man is a samurai or ninja and all women are geishas.

Mongolians all live in yurts and herd yaks, and all of them long for the day of a revived Mongolian empire.

Canadians are weird and love hockey and sweater vests and say stuff like “ehh” and “aboot”

Mexicans…oh yeah we all know them. They are all dark-skinned, never bath, never work unless it’s picking grapes or mowing people’s lawns in America…or bartending or playing a Mariachi band in one of the vacation spots. They all take long siestas, eat tacos and burritos, and wear sombreros.

Africans? well they all live in tribes and do circle dances and say things like “Zulu”…

Yep because every other nation besides America has a cultural identity right?

 

[Ender]

The best part of Santorum’s statement is that the point he raised needed to be made: the political positions of the bishops do not require our assent. Whether you agree with the bishop’s position on immigration or not it is important to recognize that Catholics are not called to agree with them and that their position is neither more nor less moral than any other position.

Ender

 

[ringil]

accept the culture.

 

[raaucoin]

Yeah because Germans man the culture is nothing but Sauerkraut and Lederhosen.

Italy is nothing but a bunch of terrific loving womanizers who are all Catholic and ride Vespa bikes.

French all smell, never bathe, never shave, eat only frogs legs, terrific lovers (if you can stand to smell them) all them men have mustaches and so do the women. Every Frenchmen wears a striped sailors shirt and a beret. They also say “Wee Wee” and laugh like Maurice Chevalier “Houghn Houghn Houghn!”

Spainards are all Catholic and like bulls anything anything related to bulls.

Greeks are always fishing and being mistaken for Italians and every Greek hates the lousy Turks!

Austrians…HAVE NO CULTURE!! IT’S GERMAN!!!

Russians all wear fur caps…all the women are super hot with piercing blue eyes. They all drink vodka and eat borscht. Oh and they all love Stalin.

Sweden all the women are supermodels and eat Swedish meatballs, work at IKEA and all drive Saabs or Volvos

Norway wishes they were Sweden

Finland wishes they were Sweden

Iceland wishes they were Sweden

Denmark is torn between wishing to be Sweden or Germany

Britain they all wear bowler hats, three-piece suits and walk with an umbrella, oh they also eat only Bangers and Mash and constantly say things like “Cheerio” and “Old Chap”

Ireland they all are ginger kids, drink copious amount of beer and eat only potatoes and will die if there is a famine in spite of being an island surrounded by water. They also all riverdance, and play the harp. Every Irish is secretly a leprechaun and loves shamrocks and has a pot o’ gold at the end of the rainbow…oh and the Northern Irish are all terrorists and hates Catholics, Protestants, British, and Irish…unless of course they are one of these.

In China everyone works in a rice paddy and wears those pointy straw hats, they also are Kung-Fu masters and shaolin monks everyone of them

Japan every man is a samurai or ninja and all women are geishas.

Mongolians all live in yurts and herd yaks, and all of them long for the day of a revived Mongolian empire.

Canadians are weird and love hockey and sweater vests and say stuff like “ehh” and “aboot”

Mexicans…oh yeah we all know them. They are all dark-skinned, never bath, never work unless it’s picking grapes or mowing people’s lawns in America…or bartending or playing a Mariachi band in one of the vacation spots. They all take long siestas, eat tacos and burritos, and wear sombreros.

Africans? well they all live in tribes and do circle dances and say things like “Zulu”…

Yep because every other nation besides America has a cultural identity right?

Nothing I wrote was based on stereo-types only(my) real experiences of real cultures (plural) in different parts of the U.S. If culture is still defined as it was when I was studying Cultural Anthropology- then defining that culture that we ask folks to accept is very difficult. The culture I grew up in in South east louisiana is very different than the culture a friend of mine grew up in as an African American in Chicago which was a very different culture by the way than another black friend of ours who grew up on the bayous of Louisiana.

The fact is that we are a land of many cultures. And it’s ridiculous to ask someone to leave his or hers behind. But if we do then I think it’s valid to ask - what are we asking them to accept in terms of culture.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I’m with Rick on this one.

1. A nation that does not/can not control its borders is no longer a nation
2. It is unfair to legal immigrants-to-be to legalize illegal immigrants.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

I am with Rick Santorum, I disagree with the Bishops on this. This is a step to far. It is one thing to call for immigration reform, it is another to make a statement like these 33 Bishops have done to say we should be thanking illegal immigrants even though they have broken the law. It is a little bit of insult to every legal immigrant, though I am sure the Bishops are not doing this purposely. You shouldn’t say contempt for the law is acceptable.

Pope Benedict said states have the right to defend borders

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

2241 (b) Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, paragraph 298, says:

Regulating immigration according to criteria of equity and balance is one of the indispensable conditions for ensuring that immigrants are integrated into society with the guarantees required by recognition of their human dignity.

I think I agree with Newt’s Gingrich’s position on immigration, you have to deal with a subset of the people who are there and who fit the credentials for legality, not citizenship and no right to vote. But you have to secure the borders. Not only because of the problem with illegal immigration, but because of the trafficking of drugs, guns and people. It should be a national security priority.

I do not think rejecting the Bishop’s stance on illegal immigration is on par with rejecting doctrinal stances of the Church such as on abortion.

I think the Bishops should be concerned about how breaking licit laws is affecting the souls of the people breaking them.

Well, I myself definitely don’t agree with the Bishops on immigration. But, my only point was that I assumed a lot of Catholics do agree with the Bishops on immigration [Hence, Santorum potentially losing votes… or so I thought] . It would appear that most orthodox and practicing Catholics (as represented by those who care about their Catholic faith enough to post on this board) actually want the border secured and are against illegal immigration.

That’s a pretty big finding for me. It would appear that almost all the Catholics who defend illegal immigrants coming into this country, and support sanctuary cities for them… are Catholics who are not especially orthodox at all. But, part of the social justice liberals who don’t really care about saving souls, so much as helping the poor. [And, I’ll posit, trying to get the poor to live materialistic lifestyles, yep I’ll posit that.]

Indeed, I agree with Newt Gingrich’s position as well.

I am also surprised that no one found it interesting that Santorum goes to Latin mass. Did everyone here already know that? Or is that not very significant in y’alls opinion? It certainly raised my eyebrows to learn that of a politician.

 

[chuckfrmvalyfrg]

Yes ! Accept the culture: become regular attendees of the symphony and Broadway musicals… I mean- become familiar with all of the Motown greats…-I mean get involved in the next Pow-Wow…no! I mean learn to play the accordian, sing Cajun songs and prepare for the next boucherie…Oh wait… i mean get your family to the next big clam bake…oops! I mean- there’s a few thousand head of cattle that need…no that’s not it!..the state fair! uh–the Blessing of the fleet on the east, west, no gulf coast…no the Christmas parade in New york, I mean the boat parade in Petit Caillou…Forget all of that… Just get to Church… The Cathedral- no Synagogue I mean Mosque ok the Temple. Oh Come on Man! Just accept the Culture!

It’s a lot simpler than you make it . How much better would we all be if everyone abided by the three pronouncements on every US denominated coin :

1. Liberty - not equality , not egalite .
2. E Pluribus Unum - Out of ( or from ) many one , Not multiculturalism .
3. In God We Trust - not in secularism/materialism/positivism we trust .

You can embrace all three and still have lots of wiggle room to express yourself .

 

[meltzerboy]

caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/12/santorum-in-iowa-catholic-bishops-are-wrong-on-immigration/

Thought I’d post this, I just found it too interesting not to. [He did not actually use the word wrong, as it turns out]

This is probably the most eye raising quote:

So, is it wise for Santorum to say something like this? I mean, I imagine this might lose some of the few voters he has. I’m sure some Catholics are supporting him, well doesn’t this lose some of that vote… openly criticizing the Bishops?

Anyways, the second most interesting part, is that the article confirms that Santorum and his family attend Latin Mass in Washington D.C. I mean, irregardless of his weak chances of winning the GOP nomination… you can’t say that about too many politicians I’d reckon. Probably even less on the national level.

The only other 2 I’d suspect of going to Latin Mass aren’t even politicians, they’re judges: Scalia and Alito. Anyways, we need him to be in government somewhere. I hope he gets appointed to some cabinet position. If that doesn’t happen, I hope he runs again for public office somewhere. We need good Catholics in government.

There are certain politicians who are more likely to speak their mind than others. I appreciate this, even when I may disagree, since it is so rare for politicians, or anyone for that matter, to do so. In addition, since he is so far behind, Santorum really has nothing much to lose. But I have the feeling he would still be straightforward in expressing his views, no matter how controversial, even if he were more of a contender. He’s a little like Paul in this regard and I think it is an admirable trait.

 

[austenbosten]

Nothing I wrote was based on stereo-types only(my) real experiences of real cultures (plural) in different parts of the U.S. If culture is still defined as it was when I was studying Cultural Anthropology- then defining that culture that we ask folks to accept is very difficult. The culture I grew up in in South east louisiana is very different than the culture a friend of mine grew up in as an African American in Chicago which was a very different culture by the way than another black friend of ours who grew up on the bayous of Louisiana.

The fact is that we are a land of many cultures. And it’s ridiculous to ask someone to leave his or hers behind. But if we do then I think it’s valid to ask - what are we asking them to accept in terms of culture.

Well I think speaking English and waving the American flag instead of the Mexican flag would be considered a culture that is practised by the vast majority of Americans

 

[ringil]

Well I think speaking English and waving the American flag instead of the Mexican flag would be considered a culture that is practised by the vast majority of Americans

Americans of Irish descent often wave and display Irish flags ( I lived in Boston). The French flag is flown down in LA. Are these OK in your eyes?

I say let immigrants wave BOTH flags- why get worked up?

 

[austenbosten]

Americans of Irish descent often wave and display Irish flags ( I lived in Boston). The French flag is flown down in LA. Are these OK in your eyes?

I say let immigrants wave BOTH flags- why get worked up?

Yes because they usually only wave those flags on St. Patty’s day and NOLA entire culture has been Cajun, also a lot of Puerto Ricans fly the flag during their special parades…that’s not the point…none of those flag waivers would ever put those flags over favor of the American flag

When one group of immigrants are waving and saluting another flag at disrespect to the American flag that’s a clear lack of willingness to participate in America.

Now before you change the subject to “well PRs speak Spanish, and Cajuns French have ya gotsa problem wit dat?” No I don’t have a problem I know Italians who speak Italian, but when people are demanding bi-lingual education and others to know Spanish because many refuse to learn then that’s a clear lack of willingness to participate in America…None of your forefathers demanded America cater to their demands or disrespected the flag, why give the new one’s a pass?