Right to life: Canadian Style, eh?

[markomalley]

For those who are horribly in favor of socialized medicine, consider the following example of one Samuel Golubchuk.

The Canadian Jewish News version of the story.
The LifeSiteNews.com version of the story.
Editorial/Analysis pieces: here, here, and here.

My comment: when you have a situation where the same government that finances all health care sets up a rule where a physician (on the government payroll) has sole authority to make a life-or-death decision, there is a massive potential for a conflict of interest.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We have only to look north and see our future.

The day will come when people retire and are euthanized on the same day. That would solve the Social Security problem!

 

[BamaRider]

Thats terrible. You gotta go to court to *keep *a family member alive?

But that is what ya get when you turn your healthcare over to the govt. There are only so many beds and doctors to go around, and* they *decide who is gonna get what.

A bad thing to say, but I’m sure they felt there was a patient on th list that had a better chance of making it, and needed the man’s bed.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Our Canadian health care system is less than perfect.

The question is, is your U.S. system better than ours?
Not according to your fellow American Michael Moore.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Our Canadian health care system is less than perfect.

The question is, is your U.S. system better than ours? Not according to your fellow American Michael Moore.

We have clinics all along our border that cater to Candians who are so dissatisfied with your system that they come here to pay for their medical care out of their own pockets.

Do you have Americans flocking to Canada for medical care?

 

[rlg94086]

Our Canadian health care system is less than perfect.

The question is, is your U.S. system better than ours?
Not according to your fellow American Michael Moore.

Bah! He is American-in-name-only.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

vern humphrey:

We have clinics all along our border that cater to Candians who are so dissatisfied with your system that they come here to pay for their medical care out of their own pockets.

Hi yall. Me up in Canada.

Oh there are dire problems up here in the Troo North and some of us do end up south of the border trying to save our lives.

But there are also dire problems south of the border.

Pitting ourselves against each other is not going to solve the systemic barriers in both countries.
vern humphrey:

Do you have Americans flocking to Canada for medical care?

Yes. We have had such an influx of Americans using the health care cards of their friends and relatives to get health care (mostly obstetrical intervention) that the Liberals instituted a photo ID program which we can’t afford.

Now some folks have photo ID and some folks don’t. And the resulting level of govt interference in health care has elevated the rate of identity theft and fraud. Go figure.

The best defence against health care nightmares is to be fully informed and to never-give-a-inch on your free will. But lots of folks want to take the easy way out and never have to think for themselves. That is true in the US AND Canada.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hi yall. Me up in Canada.

Oh there are dire problems up here in the Troo North and some of us do end up south of the border trying to save our lives.

But there are also dire problems south of the border.

Pitting ourselves against each other is not going to solve the systemic barriers in both countries.

Yes. We have had such an influx of Americans using the health care cards of their friends and relatives to get health care (mostly obstetrical intervention) that the Liberals instituted a photo ID program which we can’t afford.

Now some folks have photo ID and some folks don’t. And the resulting level of govt interference in health care has elevated the rate of identity theft and fraud. Go figure.

The best defence against health care nightmares is to be fully informed and to never-give-a-inch on your free will. But lots of folks want to take the easy way out and never have to think for themselves. That is true in the US AND Canada.

To quote Kipling:

My son, if I, Haifez thy father, take hold of thy knees in my pain
Demanding thy name on stamped paper for one day
or one hour – refrain!

Are the links of they fetters so light that thou cravest another man’s chain?

Let us fix our system (and I have given extensive examples of how we can do that) and not import someone else’s mistakes.

 

[AgnosTheist]

We have clinics all along our border that cater to Candians who are so dissatisfied with your system that they come here to pay for their medical care out of their own pockets.

money rules in america. if you have it you can have the best medical treatment in the world. Mr.Moore raised a lot of important issues that you need to address.

Do you have Americans flocking to Canada for medical care?

No. And thats because you need to be a Canadian citizen to qualify. And very few Americans can trick our system.

 

[vern_humphrey]

money rules in america. if you have it you can have the best medical treatment in the world. Mr.Moore raised a lot of important issues that you need to address.

When you cite Michael Moore, you need to remember, sometimes he slants the truth.

No. And thats because you need to be a Canadian citizen to qualify. And very few Americans can trick our system.

Apparently very few Canadians can, as well.

We’ve had a Canadian on these forums brag how a friend of his father’s, afraid he would die before his number came up on the list, tried to get treatment in America (for which Canada would not pay – even though he was a Canadian taxpayer.)

He was punished by being sent to the bottom of the list in Canada, and died without treatment.

 

[rpp]

No. And thats because you need to be a Canadian citizen to qualify. And very few Americans can trick our system.

And we would want to exactly why? I mean, why would we risk frostbite just to have our appendix taken out? (Just good natured ribbing. Said in jest. please here it the same way. )

 

[AgnosTheist]

When you cite Michael Moore, you need to remember, sometimes he slants the truth.

i know how much a propagandist he is. but he still did raise some important issues. or was he lying too about the scores of millions of americans who dont have healthcare?

We’ve had a Canadian on these forums brag how a friend of his father’s, afraid he would die before his number came up on the list, tried to get treatment in America (for which Canada would not pay – even though he was a Canadian taxpayer.)

like i said, its less than perfect. thank god it worked on people i know. kidney failure. heart failure. taken cared of without a hassle.

 

[vern_humphrey]

i know how much a propagandist he is. but he still did raise some important issues. or was he lying too about the scores of millions of americans who dont have healthcare?

Define “Lie.”

Did he point out that most of those people who have health insurance (not health care) choose not to have it – making a rational choice not to pay premiums?

Did he point out that most of the people who don’t have health insurance are young and healthy?

Did he point out that many of the people who don’t have health insurance are illegal immigrants?

Did he point out the Massachusetts “solution” was to force people to buy health insurance – whether they want it or not – or pay higher taxes? And did he explain how that** helps** the poor?

like i said, its less than perfect. thank god it worked on people i know. kidney failure. heart failure. taken cared of without a hassle.

And we have had one reported case where a dis-satisfied Canadian was punished by being sent to the foot of the list – a death sentence without a trial.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Did he point out that most of the people who don’t have health insurance are young and healthy?

My sister in law was young and healthy when suddenly her kidneys failed.

And we have had one reported case where a dis-satisfied Canadian was punished by being sent to the foot of the list – a death sentence without a trial.

a less than perfect system. is the u.s. system better? how?

 

[BamaRider]

And herein lies the difference for me in Alabama and my friends north of the border.

BCBS insurance mostly paid by the agency I worked for, my share is couple hundred a month.

Fire Dept diagnosed me with hernia (not job related) sent me to my private practice guy same day.

Confirmed diagnosis that afternoon, lined up follow up appt. with the surgeon for 2 days later.

Surgeon evaluated me, asked when I wanted to get fixed up. “Gimme a couple of weeks doc, I’m training for half marathon and ain’t got time for a operation right now.” “Ok come see me when it’s over, in the meantime no lifting, and you’re off work.”

Took sick report to fire dept and put on sick leave till operation and recovery.

finished race, went back to doc for surgery appt. Went in 2 days later. Checked in hospital the night before. Private room, round the clock nurse care, private bath, TV, Wi Fi, snack bar down the hall, read the paper and relaxed. The guy that lays me out for the operation comes by to meet me, and answers any questions.

Next morning they wheel me into surgery and fix me up. Wake up in post op. “How ya feel? Do you need anything?” Sleep off the anesthia and went home that evening.

Enjoyed the 6 weeks convalensce sick leave before returning to duty. I was good to go in a week, but every one is afraid of gettin sued so they practice defensive medicine, so I had NO choice but to take a 6 week paid vacation.

Not even the richest of Canadians can get his hernia fixed in that manner.

When you surrender something over to the govt whether it be health care, education, etc, you give up a little of your freedom. A guess its up to each society how they wanna do it. But ya can’t have both. I know which way I go.

 

[vern_humphrey]

My sister in law was young and healthy when suddenly her kidneys failed.

And based on that, you feel people are not capable of making their own decisions for themselves?

a less than perfect system. is the u.s. system better? how?

I’m not sure I understand your question.

 

[AgnosTheist]

BamaRider,

how do you get that kind of health insurance? how much is it?

 

[AgnosTheist]

And based on that, you feel people are not capable of making their own decisions for themselves?

what do you mean?

I’m not sure I understand your question.

I’d like to understand how the U.S. healthcare is better than ours. Sure our problem is the lineups, but the best thing about it is that everyone gets healthcare no matter of age or financial status. Theres no fees whatsoever, and there is no cost limit. Just the line up for more serious illnesses. Must be because of our doctor shortages…our top talents are moving south to make more money.

so in what ways are the u.s. system better? no lineups for those with insurance. what else?

 

[vern_humphrey]

what do you mean?

You said,

My sister in law was young and healthy when suddenly her kidneys failed.

Now why would you say that – unless you feel people should not be allowed to decide to not carry insurance?

I’d like to understand how the U.S. healthcare is better than ours. Sure our problem is the lineups, but the best thing about it is that everyone gets healthcare no matter of age or financial status. Theres no fees whatsoever, and there is no cost limit. Just the line up for more serious illnesses. Must be because of our doctor shortages…our top talents are moving south to make more money.

That’s what happens when you try to force the economy to perform.

so in what ways are the u.s. system better? no lineups for those with insurance. what else?

No long waiting lines, lots of health care professionals (some of whom came here from Canada) and up-to-date technology.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Now why would you say that – unless you feel people should not be allowed to decide to not carry insurance?

im not saying that. but look at it this way…by our human nature when we are healthy, especially when we are young, we feel invincible, durable and thus we tend to procrastinate on insurance until disaster strikes when it is too late. so in some cases its good to have Big Brother make insurances for everybody.

That’s what happens when you try to force the economy to perform.

No long waiting lines, lots of health care professionals (some of whom came here from Canada) and up-to-date technology

Health care should be more about the common joe than Doctor Who. I believe Doctors deserve some wealth, but not too much at the expense of the public.

So how do you get your insurance? How much do you get by how much you pay?