Right-wing fringe group building multimedia empire near Detroit

[HOTI]

They do so illicitly, violating canon law. Some end up in full schism or excommunicated.

I don’t want to derail the thread, but since the issue did relate to Voris’ group, I became curious. Do you know if the Church has legal means to get Catholics for Choice to cease and desist - perhaps trademark infringement? CFC is not Catholic, so canon law and excommunication probably means nothing to them.

 

[Latias]

I don’t want to derail the thread, but since the issue did relate to Voris’ group, I became curious. Do you know if the Church has legal means to get Catholics for Choice to cease and desist - perhaps trademark infringement? CFC is not Catholic, so canon law and excommunication probably means nothing to them.

Lol.

Catholicism TM. Scientology is trademarked and their intellectual property is held by the Religious Technology Center.

 

[Wedge_Antilles]

Except.

Mr. Voris is neither a priest, saint or agent of the Catholic Church. Your comparison is not better than that of Miley Cyrus, an entertainer turned crusader. He is not operating in any capacity for the Catholic Church. That does not mean he may not do some good for some people, or that what he is doing is wrong. But it does mean that his voice carries no more authority than a non-Catholic lay media person saying the same thing. If what he says is true, then that truth has its own weight, as it would if delivered by an atheist.

And oh, the money-changers. Really? I assure you Michael Voris is not Jesus.

When I weigh and discern the spirit in something that is said, the tone is everything. St. Paul told us what the fruits of the Spirit are, that we are to know them by their fruits. While “Gentle Jesus” was quite direct and zealous, He got his reputation for gentleness because that is what he was characterized most by. So, while I cannot judge Michael Voris, as I do not know anything about him off the air, I can judge his on air persona and message as not demonstrating, on the whole those fruits that St. Paul described. In fact, his attack on the Church for its visible display of these* same *fruits of the Holy Spirit, his so-called “Church of Nice,” is why I do not deem his programming as credible.

St. Anthony was St. Anthony when he was doing his thing either. And the notion that only Priests or “agents” (as though they have a list titled “agents”) can spread the word of God is just your opinion. He has as much right to do so as anyone else. What he shouldn’t do is act as though he is an official arm of the Vatican, which unlike the National Catholic Reporter, he has agreed to do.

There can be no debate about his right and duty to promote the intentions and teachings of the Church; the dispute from where I sit is whether he does, which by and large is just a variety of opinions in most cases.

 

[TMC]

It is Voris who makes his living slandering the Church not I, but I agree that our viewpoints appear to be incompatible. I will continue to turn to the Church to learn what the Church teaches.

 

[commenter]

I don’t want to derail the thread, but since the issue did relate to Voris’ group, I became curious. Do you know if the Church has legal means to get Catholics for Choice to cease and desist - perhaps trademark infringement? CFC is not Catholic, so canon law and excommunication probably means nothing to them.

You are right, in that CFC or for that matter National Catholic Reporter, which some call “Fishwrap”, are in defiance of any internal Church law or authority.

Unfortunately there is no secular legal protection for the word “Catholic”. Many denominations have that in their name. The only thing you can do is question if a given institution or ministry is recognized by their local diocese. Even this has only limited usefulness. Some long established ministries or publishers were “approved” or grandfathered in by their local ordinary decades ago, but have drifted since then. They seem to know how far they can “drift” and still be “approved” by their local diocese. So be cautious about publishers or ministries approved 100 years ago.

Still, being “approved” by the local diocese is important, especially for newer ministries. Being unapproved puts Church Militant in the same company as National Catholic Reporter, SSPX, and CFC, even though Church Militant is in my opinion more reliable. You might say “being unapproved gives them independence and objectivity” but then all the other unapproved outfits would say the same thing.

 

[J_Peterson]

“SLIPPERY SLOPE WARNING”
This is the argument I hear from Catholics who go to non denominational churches.

Anti-Catholic Catholics are almost there already.

 

[J_Peterson]

while Mike Voris may rub some the wrong way, his heart is n seeing the Church return to her true calling. It seems that he has gotten under the (thin) skin of some. Last year, or the year befpre an attack was launched on him by someone using his past indiscretions against him. It was a terrible smear campaign. Now he is labeled right wing frige group. Makes me wonder.
I sure am glad that progressives are soooooo tolerant. I would hate to see what they would be like otherwise.

Does he accept Vatican II?

 

[pnewton]

Does he accept Vatican II?

Yes. He is in no way schismatic.

 

[pnewton]

St. Anthony was St. Anthony when he was doing his thing either. And the notion that only Priests or “agents” (as though they have a list titled “agents”) can spread the word of God is just your opinion.

That is not and never has been my opinion. It is a ridiculous assumption.

 

[pnewton]

I don’t want to derail the thread, but since the issue did relate to Voris’ group, I became curious. Do you know if the Church has legal means to get Catholics for Choice to cease and desist - perhaps trademark infringement? CFC is not Catholic, so canon law and excommunication probably means nothing to them.

That is an excellent legal question and one I do not know the answer to.

 

[pnewton]

My comment related to the above post is around this whole notion of tone. Jesus was gentle, but for you to dismiss his reaction in the temple with the money changers is baffling to me.

If I appeared dismissive of it, I apologize. What I want to do is place those few minutes in the perspective of a three year ministry. In fact, from a practical matter, his very gentleness highlights the righteous anger that he demonstrated. Think of how it is with you. What grabs your attention the most, the man who is always angry and forceful yelling and angry over some injustice, or the meek and humble man who never raises his voice, yelling and angry over some injustice.

Be angry and sin not. More to the point, be smart about when to unleash anger when it is most useful.

 

[J_Peterson]

Yes. He is in no way schismatic.

I did a search and you are correct. He just believes that the Catholic Church has been implementing Vatican II wrong all these years. So he is for his version of Vatican II it seems and the rest are not “authentic” Catholics. I’ll continue to pass on his version of Catholicism. It offers me nothing.

If I appeared dismissive of it, I apologize. What I want to do is place those few minutes in the perspective of a three year ministry. In fact, from a practical matter, his very gentleness highlights the righteous anger that he demonstrated. Think of how it is with you. What grabs your attention the most, the man who is always angry and forceful yelling and angry over some injustice, or the meek and humble man who never raises his voice, yelling and angry over some injustice.

Be angry and sin not. More to the point, be smart about when to unleash anger when it is most useful.

That’s rather nice way of putting it. Jesus got angry a few times but I don’t consider it to be his defining characteristic or what I want to imitate. Should we run around calling people Satan because Jesus did it to Peter?

We should be careful of anger. There is nothing, not even sexual desire, that robs us of our freedom more than anger. We aren’t Jesus and it’s not as easy for us to determine if our anger is sinful or not. I assume it’s almost always a sin.

 

[Wedge_Antilles]

I did a search and you are correct. He just believes that the Catholic Church has been implementing Vatican II wrong all these years. So he is for his version of Vatican II it seems and the rest are not “authentic” Catholics. I’ll continue to pass on his version of Catholicism. It offers me nothing.

That’s rather nice way of putting it. Jesus got angry a few times but I don’t consider it to be his defining characteristic or what I want to imitate. Should we run around calling people Satan because Jesus did it to Peter?

We should be careful of anger. There is nothing, not even sexual desire, that robs us of our freedom more than anger. We aren’t Jesus and it’s not as easy for us to determine if our anger is sinful or not. I assume it’s almost always a sin.

I agree about anger. Now go tell that to the folks who opposed Trump on the World News Forum or the folks protesing various things related to Trump’s election. Talk about a seething anger that even if denied, is obviously to everyone else.

I’d start they with curbing anger.

 

[pnewton]

I agree about anger. Now go tell that to the folks who opposed Trump on the World News Forum or the folks protesing various things related to Trump’s election. Talk about a seething anger that even if denied, is obviously to everyone else.

I’d start they with curbing anger.

That is a good idea, but the one person we can change is ourselves. The great political divide has been created by this constant redirection toward others.

 

[Ernie07]

If I appeared dismissive of it, I apologize. What I want to do is place those few minutes in the perspective of a three year ministry. In fact, from a practical matter, his very gentleness highlights the righteous anger that he demonstrated. Think of how it is with you. What grabs your attention the most, the man who is always angry and forceful yelling and angry over some injustice, or the meek and humble man who never raises his voice, yelling and angry over some injustice.

Be angry and sin not. More to the point, be smart about when to unleash anger when it is most useful.

I see what you mean. Very fair insights. I guess for me I don’t see Voris as angry as much as I see him as intense. Maybe it’s a fine line, but for me anger can quickly turn to being consumed by it (that’s me!) while intensity is more about having a laser focus on an issue of importance to you. I totally see what you and others speak to regarding anger though and I appreciate everyone’s thoughts on it.

-Ernie-

 

[HOTI]

That is an excellent legal question and one I do not know the answer to.

Thanks anyway, and please don’t ever change your avatar.

You are right, in that CFC or for that matter National Catholic Reporter, which some call “Fishwrap”, are in defiance of any internal Church law or authority.

Unfortunately there is no secular legal protection for the word “Catholic”. Many denominations have that in their name. The only thing you can do is question if a given institution or ministry is recognized by their local diocese. Even this has only limited usefulness. Some long established ministries or publishers were “approved” or grandfathered in by their local ordinary decades ago, but have drifted since then. They seem to know how far they can “drift” and still be “approved” by their local diocese. So be cautious about publishers or ministries approved 100 years ago.

Still, being “approved” by the local diocese is important, especially for newer ministries. Being unapproved puts Church Militant in the same company as National Catholic Reporter, SSPX, and CFC, even though Church Militant is in my opinion more reliable. You might say “being unapproved gives them independence and objectivity” but then all the other unapproved outfits would say the same thing.

Somewhere in my head I think I now remember the National Catholic Reporter being called fishwrap. Wasn’t there some saying or rhyme to help us remember the National Catholic Register was the good one?

Anyway, I was just thinking along the lines of 501c3 entity. What if another organization used Salvation Army in its name yet was a charity to provide free prostitution. Seems as if SA would be able to sue.

It’s ironic how Catholics for Choice can ignore the Church and keep the name, yet Voris was obedient to canon law and loses it.

 

[Fiasco]

Another long-winded post! What a fiasco!****
**

Except.

Mr. Voris is neither a priest, saint or agent of the Catholic Church.

So? MV is making up for what is lacking in parts of the heirarchy. If things were OK, he wouldn’t have to.

Your comparison is not better than that of Miley Cyrus, an entertainer turned crusader.[And what a crusader!!! Plus, her election night emotional outpouring was sort of heart-wrenching.] He is not operating in any capacity for the Catholic Church. That does not mean he may not do some good for some people, or that what he is doing is wrong. But it does mean that his voice carries no more authority than a non-Catholic lay media person saying the same thing. If what he says is true, then that truth has its own weight, as it would if delivered by an atheist.

The reason for his desire for total independence was brought up in an earlier post two pages back.

And oh, the money-changers. Really? I assure you Michael Voris is not Jesus

He’s certainly not Jesus. He’s a repentant sinner, and follows our Lord’s example when it comes to “the hard sayings”.

When I weigh and discern the spirit in something that is said, the tone is everything. St. Paul told us what the fruits of the Spirit are, that we are to know them by their fruits.

The same applies to Voris…and to bishops.

So, while I cannot judge Michael Voris, as I do not know anything about him off the air, I can judge his on air persona and message as not demonstrating, on the whole those fruits that St. Paul described. In fact, his attack on the Church for its visible display of these* same *fruits of the Holy Spirit, his so-called “Church of Nice,” is why I do not deem his programming as credible.

Being NICE has it’s place, but not to the point of selling the Faith short for the sake of not wanting to offend anyone. In the business of saving souls, that attitude can lead to the opposite outcome. Our Lord mentioned HELL a lot of times, something conveniently forgotten by some who should know better.***
Being NICE can be false charity, and that’s one of the very deadly current errors Voris is exposing!
Political correctness!***

It’s no good turning a blind eye. The Church in the spiritually bankrupt West is in bad shape. For their own sakes, and for the sake of the flock, some people need to be called out.
Decades ago, Scott Hahn likened the state of the Church in the US to the Church in Laodicea. A warning there!
Some people have to be shocked into realising the sorry state of affairs.
We know the Holy Spirit sustains the Church, but regional collapse can still happen.

“SLIPPERY SLOPE WARNING”
This is the argument I hear from Catholics who go to non denominational churches.

The slope was slippery long before MV came on the scene. He’s doing his bit to help slow down the exodus.*** And to wake people up!

---

Who are the fishwrap people? Fishwrap refers to newspapers that are so useless you just use them to wrap fish or place in litter boxes. At least that is my understanding. Do you mean all the papers Soros funds as well? That link had plenty of information for anyone interested.

Sorry…the National Catholic Reporter. BTW:you forgot liners for bird cage bottoms.

Right now I am trying to figure out how an organization that promotes abortion gets to use the name, Catholic. I don’t know what you mean by “there shouldn’t be any place for a group like Church Militant…”. Even lay Catholics are called to evangelize.

Again: sorry! What was meant was: if those entrusted with feeding and guarding the flock did just that, there’d be no need for outfits like Church Militant. That’s the tragedy of it.

As far as the Church in the USA goes, Cardinal Burke and some other like-minded shepherds seem not far from being lone voices…crying in the wilderness.

One place where i have to part company with MV and Co is the state of the pre-Vatican II Church. i’m just old enough to remember… it wasn’t a golden age, regardless of what some Traditionalists think. There were problems which needed to be cleaned up; and the subversives were already lying in wait, ready to whisper to the itchy ears…
Those extremist groups which brand the Church “the Vatican II sect” are horribly deceived.

 

[Fiasco]

Somewhere in my head I think I now remember the National Catholic Reporter being called fishwrap. Wasn’t there some saying or rhyme to help us remember the National Catholic Register was the good one?

.

That last idiotic post took hours, but:
change “Reporter” to “Distorter”, and you more or less have a rhyme.

 

[HOTI]

Another long-winded post! What a fiasco!******

Sorry…the National Catholic Reporter. BTW:you forgot liners for bird cage bottoms.

Again: sorry! What was meant was: if those entrusted with feeding and guarding the flock did just that, there’d be no need for outfits like Church Militant. That’s the tragedy of it.

As far as the Church in the USA goes, Cardinal Burke and some other like-minded shepherds seem not far from being lone voices…crying in the wilderness.

One place where i have to part company with MV and Co is the state of the pre-Vatican II Church. i’m just old enough to remember… it wasn’t a golden age, regardless of what some Traditionalists think. There were problems which needed to be cleaned up; and the subversives were already lying in wait, ready to whisper to the itchy ears…
Those extremist groups which brand the Church “the Vatican II sect” are horribly deceived.

Ok, thanks. We are on the same page.

 

[HOTI]

That last idiotic post took hours, but:
change “Reporter” to “Distorter”, and you more or less have a rhyme.

I just wrote a poem of the many uses, but fear it might get me in trouble…