RIP Pope Shenouda III

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Sad that this great and courageous man died. Copts need him now more than ever.
Please refer to him as a Monophysite leader and not a Coptic leader since there are three rival Coptic churches:
  1. Coptic Catholic Church - in communion with Rome
  2. Coptic Monophysite Church - led by the late Shenouda III
  3. Coptic Chaldean Syrian Church - in communion with Assyrian Church of the East
Shenouda III is neither great nor courageous as he did not dare to speak against Mohamed’s false teachings. The Monophysite Copts need a new leader who will be willing to become a Uniate a la the Chaldean Church or Maronite Church or Coptic Catholic Church.
 
Please refer to him as a Monophysite leader and not a Coptic leader since there are three rival Coptic churches:
  1. Coptic Catholic Church - in communion with Rome
  2. Coptic Monophysite Church - led by the late Shenouda III
  3. Coptic Chaldean Syrian Church - in communion with Assyrian Church of the East
Shenouda III is neither great nor courageous as he did not dare to speak against Mohamed’s false teachings. The Monophysite Copts need a new leader who will be willing to become a Uniate a la the Chaldean Church or Maronite Church or Coptic Catholic Church.
The Oriental Orthodox, including the Coptic Orthodox, are not-nor have they every been-monophysites. They do not accept the heresy of Eutyches, which denies the true humanity of Christ, and they never did. If they are monophysites, then so was St. Cyril of Alexandria and the other Fathers of the Third Ecumenical Council.
 
May God rest his soul.

Just a question: who elects his successor? Do the Copts have a conclave like we Roman Catholics?

I’m just askin’…
 
May God rest his soul.

Just a question: who elects his successor? Do the Copts have a conclave like we Roman Catholics?

I’m just askin’…
Patriarchal candidates selection and election
The candidates for the Apostolic Throne of Alexandria must be at least 40 years old, and a lay person, a monk, a Hieromonk (Monk Priest or Monk Archpriest), or even a general bishop (not shepherding a diocese), as has been recently the practice (although it is against the definition of the candidates of the Canon Laws). The election is done when a draw is made by a blindfolded child selected from the congregation of a folded paper that has written on it the name of the candidate. This draw is made out of the three runner finalist candidates who are elected from several candidates through several elections made by the members of The Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church and the General Lay Council of the Church, rather than being elected by other clergymen.
This ceremony is done at the end of a Hierarchical Divine Liturgy, presided by the Locum tenens of the Throne, along with the entire body of the Holy Synod and in the presence of all members of the General Lay Council of the Church and in front of all the congregation. The last time this was seen was in 1971 after the departure of Pope Cyril VI, where Bishop Shenouda, general bishop and administrator of the Bishopric of Christian Education, became Pope Shenouda III.
In accordance with the old Coptic church tradition, for nineteen centuries it was essential that the Pope should not have been a Bishop beforehand. However, Pope Cyril VI was the only Monk in the 20th century to be chosen as the Coptic Pope without being a Bishop /Metropolitan before becoming the Pope. Before him, there were three Bishops / Metropolitans who became Popes: John XIX (1928–1942) , Macarius III (1942–1944) and Pope Yousab II. After him, Pope Shenouda III was a Bishop before becoming a Pope.[8]
From Wikipedia
 
Memory Eternal! May God grant him rest and a place in the heavenly kingdom. :highprayer:
 
Eternal rest grant unto him oh Lord and may perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen.

My condolences to all of our Coptic brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat ei.
Requiescat in pace.
Amen.
 
May God rest his soul.

Just a question: who elects his successor? Do the Copts have a conclave like we Roman Catholics?

I’m just askin’…
If I remember correctly (Shenouda has been around since before I was born), there are a series of elections, like in a run-off voting system, but out of the certain number of finalists (I don’t know the number, probably below ten), straws are drawn or some other method of random assortment selects the new one.
 
Please refer to him as a Monophysite leader and not a Coptic leader since there are three rival Coptic churches:
  1. Coptic Catholic Church - in communion with Rome
  2. Coptic Monophysite Church - led by the late Shenouda III
  3. Coptic Chaldean Syrian Church - in communion with Assyrian Church of the East
Shenouda III is neither great nor courageous as he did not dare to speak against Mohamed’s false teachings. The Monophysite Copts need a new leader who will be willing to become a Uniate a la the Chaldean Church or Maronite Church or Coptic Catholic Church.
He is greater and more courageous than either of us (I see we’re both ex-Muslims: I am a Copt from Egypt with nominal/secular parents who converted to Shafi’i Sunni Islamic orthodoxy when I was 10-11 years old), realize, that if he spoke too vociferously, the government (especially the new Islamist one) would murder him, and not just that, but murder more Copts than they already do, and dissolve the church. He has to walk a fine line. Granted, if he stepped over the line, it would be nothing that Christians haven’t experienced under Domitian and Diocletian, but that fervor was fading by the third century even, as evidenced by Origen’s writing An Exhortation to Martyrdom. And, the entire system of governance, sustenance, and nation-states today is set up in such a way that much greater violence could be brought to bear with much less the martyrs could do to avoid it.

It’s better the Copts (and, from my experience, 99.9% of Copts are Coptic Orthodox: Shenouda is our representative, and speaks for us) do as they have been - still under some of the stiffest persecution of Christians in the world - than Egypt become like the KSA, and, soon, I believe, in other Arabian countries (and maybe even the Asian Persian Iran) where Christianity has been wiped from the face of the land (although, out of 27 million enforced-under-pain-of-death Muslims in KSA, I believe estimates put the rate of Catholicism at 800,000 and others at 200,000).

I left the Coptic Church of my ancestry for true orthodoxy, but they are not a cult any more than the Eastern Orthodox Churches or Anglicanism or Lutheranism is a cult, or (mainstream, not Hare Krishna) Hinduism is a cult (at least in any sense other than the Latin cultus, a regime of worship, like “the Cult of the Saints”).

Things like Jehovah’s Witnessism and Mohammedanism are cults. Don’t water down the word by using it to refer to all other religions that you disagree with.

I believe the Mono/miaphysites have valid holy orders, although I’m not sure, and I’m also relatively sure John Paul the Great signed a concord with them stating that the mono/miaphysite Christology is compatible with or a “different way of saying” the orthodox Hypostatic Union formula of Christology (I believe he did the same with the Nestorian church of the East).
 
May his memory be eternal. God bless him and grant him eternal rest with His saints.
 
The Oriental Orthodox, including the Coptic Orthodox, are not-nor have they every been-monophysites. They do not accept the heresy of Eutyches, which denies the true humanity of Christ, and they never did. If they are monophysites, then so was St. Cyril of Alexandria and the other Fathers of the Third Ecumenical Council.
Mar Cyril of Alexandria was certainly not a Monophysite / Eutychian but a “Nestorian” according to many scholars ! This is because he repented of his Monophysite heresy and abandoned the Third Ecumenical Council held in 431 A.D. for what is called wrongly called “Nestorianism” but properly the Orthodox faith of Mar Theodoros of Mopsuestia. Have you read the Epistle of Mar Ibas to Mar Mari the Persian? This is what my Bishop Mar Ashur Bawai Soro of our Holy Chaldean Church of the East taught us.

You should make yourself aware of the fact that Mar Cyril of Alexandria reconciled with Mar John of Antioch (who the Oriental Orthodox reject as a saint) and accepted the two natures as Orthodox as taught by the doctor of the Universal Church, Mar Theodoros of Mopsuestia (who was injustly condemned by Justinian at the Fifth Council in what is known as the Three Chapters Controversy). There is a poster here called Isa al Misry who explained this very well. He also posts on Orthodox Christianity.NET forums.

The Nestorian Assyrian Church of the East accepts the COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON 451 AD as their Third Ecumenical Council and venerates both Martha Maryam and Mar Kyrillos as saints. The Assyrians reject the Council of Ephesus 431 AD as heretical moreover as Mar Cyril himself abandoned it. This is enough proof that Mar Cyril is a “Nestorian” who renounced his Monophysite heresy for Chalcedonian Orthodoxy at what scholars call “Cyrillian-Johanine Reconciliation Agreement” that accepts the two natures dogma as Orthodox.

The present Coptic Monophysite Church accepts the man Dioscoros of Alexandria as a saint despite this man Dioscoros of Alexandria being a murderer who was defrocked as a Bishop by the Holy Council of Chalcedon 451 AD. As you know, no Orthodox Bishop like Mar Cyril or Mar Theodoros of Mopsuestia has ever committed a terrible sin as murder!

Dioscoros of Alexandria is very much like the founder of the Pan Arab religion called “Islam”, the false prophet Mohamed. Catholics and Orthodox alike must ask the Coptic Monophysite Church leadership, particularly Pope Shenouda III’s successor to apologise for the murderous acts done by Dioscoros of Alexandria at the Robber Council of Ephesus 449 AD.
 
Mar Cyril of Alexandria was certainly not a Monophysite / Eutychian but a “Nestorian” according to many scholars ! This is because he repented of his Monophysite heresy and abandoned the Third Ecumenical Council held in 431 A.D. for what is called wrongly called “Nestorianism” but properly the Orthodox faith of Mar Theodoros of Mopsuestia. Have you read the Epistle of Mar Ibas to Mar Mari the Persian? This is what my Bishop Mar Ashur Bawai Soro of our Holy Chaldean Church of the East taught us.

You should make yourself aware of the fact that Mar Cyril of Alexandria reconciled with Mar John of Antioch (who the Oriental Orthodox reject as a saint) and accepted the two natures as Orthodox as taught by the doctor of the Universal Church, Mar Theodoros of Mopsuestia (who was injustly condemned by Justinian at the Fifth Council in what is known as the Three Chapters Controversy). There is a poster here called Isa al Misry who explained this very well. He also posts on Orthodox Christianity.NET forums.

The Nestorian Assyrian Church of the East accepts the COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON 451 AD as their Third Ecumenical Council and venerates both Martha Maryam and Mar Kyrillos as saints. The Assyrians reject the Council of Ephesus 431 AD as heretical moreover as Mar Cyril himself abandoned it. This is enough proof that Mar Cyril is a “Nestorian” who renounced his Monophysite heresy for Chalcedonian Orthodoxy at what scholars call “Cyrillian-Johanine Reconciliation Agreement” that accepts the two natures dogma as Orthodox.

The present Coptic Monophysite Church accepts the man Dioscoros of Alexandria as a saint despite this man Dioscoros of Alexandria being a murderer who was defrocked as a Bishop by the Holy Council of Chalcedon 451 AD. As you know, no Orthodox Bishop like Mar Cyril or Mar Theodoros of Mopsuestia has ever committed a terrible sin as murder!
Okay, you summed up the problems I have with Chalcedon perfectly well.
The statement that St. Cyril repented of his “Monophysite heresy” disgusts me. He never was a monophysite, ever. If that is so, the Council of Ephesus and the Council of Constantinople II are monophysite. Monophysitism is the theory that the two natures mingled, that the divine nature had swallowed the human nature, something which St. Cyril refutes in the 433 reunion.

And St. Cyril nestorian? Consider this quote by St. Cyril

“μία φύσις τοῦ θεοῦ λόγου σεσαρκωμένη - One Incarnate Nature of God the Word”

and

“We confess that He is Son of God and God according to the Spirit, Son of Man according to the flesh, not Two Natures to that One Son, One [Nature] worshipped the other unworshipped, but One Nature of God the Word Incarnate, worshipped with His flesh with One worship: nor Two Sons, One, Very Son of God and worshipped, the other the man out of Mary not worshipped, made by grace son of God just as men too are (St Cyril of Alexandria, Against Theodore of Mopsuestia, ch 11)”

The Council of Ephesus was never abrogated, how much Ibas and Theodoret would have wanted that, and neither was the mia physis formula.

And yes I’ve read the letter of Ibas to Maris, and it did say that St. Cyril repented of his “errors” and embraced the teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia (the teacher of the heresiarch Nestorius) with the 433 reunion, if you have read St. Cyril’s later epistles you would have known that Cyril refuted that nonsense. Besides, in the 5th Ecumenical Council this letter was condemned and everyone who defended it anathematised. So reconsider if you want to continue defending it.

And yes, the fact that Nestorius himself and the Nestorian Church of Persia embraced the Tome of Leo and Chalcedon is an indication that something is terribly wrong with both. The definition of Chalcedon is disastrous, and can only be accepted as orthodox in the light of the Fifth Ecumenical Council. That Council (553) admitted that many interpreted Chalcedon in an heretical sense and saw Chalcedonas the rehabilitation of Nestorianism in the Church. After 553 however that was fixed. Funny thing is that the West and the Pope were heavily opposed to this and saw this as an insult to Pope Leo I.

Also Dioscorus was a very sensible man. He saw the Nestorian conspiracy coming. The unrepentent heretics Theodoret of Cyrrhus (the author of the twelve counter-anathemas against St. Cyril), Ibas of Edessa and others still resented their defeat at Ephesus and with the Eutyches affair they saw their chance to reintroduce their vile teachings into the Church. For that end they sought out a powerful ally and friend and found one in Pope Leo of Rome. Who was befriended and supported Theodoret, who never condemned Nestorius and was still a heretic.

In 449 Dioscorus sabotaged their sinister plots and excommunicated and deposed Theodoret and Ibas amongst others. However, for some strange reason Pope Leo I rehabilitated amongst others the still unrepentent nestorian Theodoret to his See even before Chalcedon.

In 451 when Theodoret entered Chalcedon the Egyptians wanted to oust him for being a Nestorian. The Roman legates and the nestorian orientals stepped in and came up with a Creed that absolutely rejected the * from two natures (ek duo phuseon)* and inserted in two natures (en duo phusesin). And if that wasn’t bad enough, the council declared Ibas and his heretical letter mocking St. Cyril and teaching nestorians “orthodox”. Luckily the 5th Council corrected that.

Besides, Dioscorus wasn’t an heretic. The council refused to condemn him for heresy, for he was orthodox. They could only depose him on procedural grounds. And about Dioscorus killing someone, I doubt it.

Also, I don’t think the RCC considers your teaching orthodox.
 
Okay, you summed up the problems I have with Chalcedon perfectly well.
The statement that St. Cyril repented of his “Monophysite heresy” disgusts me. He never was a monophysite, ever. If that is so, the Council of Ephesus and the Council of Constantinople II are monophysite. Monophysitism is the theory that the two natures mingled, that the divine nature had swallowed the human nature, something which St. Cyril refutes in the 433 reunion.

And St. Cyril nestorian? Consider this quote by St. Cyril

“μία φύσις τοῦ θεοῦ λόγου σεσαρκωμένη - One Incarnate Nature of God the Word”

and

“We confess that He is Son of God and God according to the Spirit, Son of Man according to the flesh, not Two Natures to that One Son, One [Nature] worshipped the other unworshipped, but One Nature of God the Word Incarnate, worshipped with His flesh with One worship: nor Two Sons, One, Very Son of God and worshipped, the other the man out of Mary not worshipped, made by grace son of God just as men too are (St Cyril of Alexandria, Against Theodore of Mopsuestia, ch 11)”

The Council of Ephesus was never abrogated, how much Ibas and Theodoret would have wanted that, and neither was the mia physis formula.

And yes I’ve read the letter of Ibas to Maris, and it did say that St. Cyril repented of his “errors” and embraced the teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia (the teacher of the heresiarch Nestorius) with the 433 reunion, if you have read St. Cyril’s later epistles you would have known that Cyril refuted that nonsense. Besides, in the 5th Ecumenical Council this letter was condemned and everyone who defended it anathematised. So reconsider if you want to continue defending it.

And yes, the fact that Nestorius himself and the Nestorian Church of Persia embraced the Tome of Leo and Chalcedon is an indication that something is terribly wrong with both. The definition of Chalcedon is disastrous, and can only be accepted as orthodox in the light of the Fifth Ecumenical Council. That Council (553) admitted that many interpreted Chalcedon in an heretical sense and saw Chalcedonas the rehabilitation of Nestorianism in the Church. After 553 however that was fixed. Funny thing is that the West and the Pope were heavily opposed to this and saw this as an insult to Pope Leo I.

Also Dioscorus was a very sensible man. He saw the Nestorian conspiracy coming. The unrepentent heretics Theodoret of Cyrrhus (the author of the twelve counter-anathemas against St. Cyril), Ibas of Edessa and others still resented their defeat at Ephesus and with the Eutyches affair they saw their chance to reintroduce their vile teachings into the Church. For that end they sought out a powerful ally and friend and found one in Pope Leo of Rome. Who was befriended and supported Theodoret, who never condemned Nestorius and was still a heretic.

In 449 Dioscorus sabotaged their sinister plots and excommunicated and deposed Theodoret and Ibas amongst others. However, for some strange reason Pope Leo I rehabilitated amongst others the still unrepentent nestorian Theodoret to his See even before Chalcedon.

In 451 when Theodoret entered Chalcedon the Egyptians wanted to oust him for being a Nestorian. The Roman legates and the nestorian orientals stepped in and came up with a Creed that absolutely rejected the * from two natures (ek duo phuseon)* and inserted in two natures (en duo phusesin). And if that wasn’t bad enough, the council declared Ibas and his heretical letter mocking St. Cyril and teaching nestorians “orthodox”. Luckily the 5th Council corrected that.

Besides, Dioscorus wasn’t an heretic. The council refused to condemn him for heresy, for he was orthodox. They could only depose him on procedural grounds. And about Dioscorus killing someone, I doubt it.

Also, I don’t think the RCC considers your teaching orthodox.
You should check out the book “The Russian Church and the Papacy” by Vladimir Soloviev, it does mention Ephesus. If I find it later, I’ll jump back into this discussion.🙂
 


I believe the Mono/miaphysites have valid holy orders, although I’m not sure, and I’m also relatively sure John Paul the Great signed a concord with them stating that the mono/miaphysite Christology is compatible with or a “different way of saying” the orthodox Hypostatic Union formula of Christology (I believe he did the same with the Nestorian church of the East).
COMMON DECLARATION OF POPE PAUL VI AND OF THE POPE OF ALEXANDRIA SHENOUDA III (1973):

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/anc-orient-ch-docs/rc_pc_christuni_doc_19730510_copti_en.html

Also (2004), The First Meeting of the International Joint Commission for Theological Dialogue Between the Catholic Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/anc-orient-ch-docs/rc_pc_christuni_doc_20040130_report-i-meeting_en.html

Blessed Pope John Paul II wrote in SPEECH OF THE HOLY FATHER JOHN PAUL II AT THE ARRIVAL CEREMONY (2000)

“Mr President, Your Holiness Pope Shenouda, Your Beatitude Patriarch Stephanos, Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, Dear People of Egypt, As-salámu 'aláikum – Peace be with you!”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000224_egypt-arrival_en.html
 
In short, in 20th century, Christological disputes between churches were put to end.
First is between the Catholic Church and the Oriental Church, although differing in formulation both acknowledge compatible Christology. The Oriental Church is not monophysite.

Full list of common declarations with Churches of Oriental tradition can be accessed here:
Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity: Dialogue with the Oriental Orthodox Churches

The second achievement is between the Catholic Church and the Assyrian Church of the East. Again, although differing in formulation both acknowledge compatible Christology. The Assyrian Church of the East is not nestorian.

Common declaration with the Assyrian Church of the East can be accessed here:
Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity: Dialogue with the Assyrian Church of the East

In short, there is no more obstacle regarding Christology.
This document snippet is a great conclusion regarding Catholic-Oriental Christological issue:
First of all, Their Holinesses confess the faith of their two Churches, formulated by Nicene Council of 325 A.D. and generally known as “the Nicene Creeds”. The confusions and schisms that occurred between their Churches in the later centuries, they realize today, in no way affect or touch the substance of their faith, since these arose only because of differences in terminology and culture and in the various formulae adopted by different theological schools to express the same matter.
Accordingly, we find today no real basis for the sad divisions and schisms that subsequently arose between us concerning the doctrine of Incarnation.
In words and life we confess the true doctrine concerning Christ our Lord, notwithstanding the differences in interpretation of such a doctrine which arose at the time of the Council of Chalcedon.
[Common Declaration: Pope John Paul II and the Syrian Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, Mar Ignatius Zakka I Iwas, 184]
 
Please refer to him as a Monophysite leader and not a Coptic leader since there are three rival Coptic churches:
  1. Coptic Catholic Church - in communion with Rome
  2. Coptic Monophysite Church - led by the late Shenouda III
  3. Coptic Chaldean Syrian Church - in communion with Assyrian Church of the East
Shenouda III is neither great nor courageous as he did not dare to speak against Mohamed’s false teachings. The Monophysite Copts need a new leader who will be willing to become a Uniate a la the Chaldean Church or Maronite Church or Coptic Catholic Church.
Your disrespect for the reposed Coptic Orthodox Pope is shameful, sir, and you should apologise for your tone and comments!

Rome itself has repudiated the “uniate” model of church union that you praise so highly (and it would even be wrong to speak of my Church, the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, to be in communion with Rome since Rome does for us whatever the Russian Orthodox Church affirms should be done - such as deny acknowlegement of a patriarchate for the UGCC).

Be that as it may, there is no longer any misunderstanding between the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Churches on the score of Christology.

The Coptic Orthodox Church has always affirmed the Cyrillian Christology and much more can be read on this in the ecumenical reports on this subject.

“Miaphysite” is the term they apply to themselves while condemning “monophysism.” And where and when did this Pope persecute Coptic Catholics???

Please provide some evidentiary proof for your outlandish and outrageous claims.

Alex
 
I was very sad to learn about this. God bless his Holiness Pope Shenouda.
 
Okay, you summed up the problems I have with Chalcedon perfectly well.
The statement that St. Cyril repented of his “Monophysite heresy” disgusts me. He never was a monophysite, ever. If that is so, the Council of Ephesus and the Council of Constantinople II are monophysite. Monophysitism is the theory that the two natures mingled, that the divine nature had swallowed the human nature, something which St. Cyril refutes in the 433 reunion.

And St. Cyril nestorian? Consider this quote by St. Cyril

“μία φύσις τοῦ θεοῦ λόγου σεσαρκωμένη - One Incarnate Nature of God the Word”

and

“We confess that He is Son of God and God according to the Spirit, Son of Man according to the flesh, not Two Natures to that One Son, One [Nature] worshipped the other unworshipped, but One Nature of God the Word Incarnate, worshipped with His flesh with One worship: nor Two Sons, One, Very Son of God and worshipped, the other the man out of Mary not worshipped, made by grace son of God just as men too are (St Cyril of Alexandria, Against Theodore of Mopsuestia, ch 11)”

The Council of Ephesus was never abrogated, how much Ibas and Theodoret would have wanted that, and neither was the mia physis formula.

And yes I’ve read the letter of Ibas to Maris, and it did say that St. Cyril repented of his “errors” and embraced the teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia (the teacher of the heresiarch Nestorius) with the 433 reunion, if you have read St. Cyril’s later epistles you would have known that Cyril refuted that nonsense. Besides, in the 5th Ecumenical Council this letter was condemned and everyone who defended it anathematised. So reconsider if you want to continue defending it.

And yes, the fact that Nestorius himself and the Nestorian Church of Persia embraced the Tome of Leo and Chalcedon is an indication that something is terribly wrong with both. The definition of Chalcedon is disastrous, and can only be accepted as orthodox in the light of the Fifth Ecumenical Council. That Council (553) admitted that many interpreted Chalcedon in an heretical sense and saw Chalcedonas the rehabilitation of Nestorianism in the Church. After 553 however that was fixed. Funny thing is that the West and the Pope were heavily opposed to this and saw this as an insult to Pope Leo I.

Also Dioscorus was a very sensible man. He saw the Nestorian conspiracy coming. The unrepentent heretics Theodoret of Cyrrhus (the author of the twelve counter-anathemas against St. Cyril), Ibas of Edessa and others still resented their defeat at Ephesus and with the Eutyches affair they saw their chance to reintroduce their vile teachings into the Church. For that end they sought out a powerful ally and friend and found one in Pope Leo of Rome. Who was befriended and supported Theodoret, who never condemned Nestorius and was still a heretic.

In 449 Dioscorus sabotaged their sinister plots and excommunicated and deposed Theodoret and Ibas amongst others. However, for some strange reason Pope Leo I rehabilitated amongst others the still unrepentent nestorian Theodoret to his See even before Chalcedon.

In 451 when Theodoret entered Chalcedon the Egyptians wanted to oust him for being a Nestorian. The Roman legates and the nestorian orientals stepped in and came up with a Creed that absolutely rejected the * from two natures (ek duo phuseon)* and inserted in two natures (en duo phusesin). And if that wasn’t bad enough, the council declared Ibas and his heretical letter mocking St. Cyril and teaching nestorians “orthodox”. Luckily the 5th Council corrected that.

Besides, Dioscorus wasn’t an heretic. The council refused to condemn him for heresy, for he was orthodox. They could only depose him on procedural grounds. And about Dioscorus killing someone, I doubt it.

Also, I don’t think the RCC considers your teaching orthodox.
Very good sir! Dioscoros was actually the nephew of St Cyril of Alexandria who zealously upheld his uncle’s Christology. He did, in fact, physically attack St Flavian of Constantinople as he believed Flavian to have uttered approval of Nestorianism . . . Flavian did die as a result of that attack. It wasn’t surprising that such theological debates ended in violence - as we know, even the great St Nicholas of Myra in Lycia physically attacked Arius and punched him in the face during the first Ecumenical Council . . . People take their religious beliefs seriously . . .
 
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