Rise of the Megachurch

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The Rock Church here in San Diego (the region’s largest mega) does not if I’m not mistaken. Admittedly I’ve only listened to a handful of their sermons but I don’t recall that particular message being used.
 
Padres1969 said:
Wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve found ex-Catholics to make up a sizable portion of my own Episcopal congregation (20-30%). Stands to reason the same would be true in other denominations. And Mega Churches do benefit from being such a large, modern, “cool” experience for the participants. I can see the appeal even if it’s not for me.
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I think there’s an allure to not having to follow the rules of the Catholic Church and to have an interpretation that is easier to follow. Most Christians oppose premarital sex, fornication, or same-sex marriage, especially the conservative Protestant churches, the evangelical churches, and the Catholic Christian churches. I think the Catholic Church has its principles for a reason: to truly live by God’s way and to accept God for who He is rather than who you’d like Him to be. I’m proud to be a Catholic!
 
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EricF said:
Yup! Health and wealth. If you are sickly or destitute, the obviously you just aren’t faithful enough.
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That was what went wrong with Paul. His execution happened because he wasn’t faithfully tithing enough. 😅
 
I think you are on to something. People like to be affirmed. Not so much do people like to be chastised, corrected, challenged, or even taught.
 
I don’t know this church, but having looked over their website I see the signs. Not every prosperity gospel preacher is like Joel Olsteen. This movement has another name: Word of Faith.

Here is a helpful list of warning signs:
  1. The absence of a serious doctrine of the biblical necessity and normalcy of suffering, the absence of a doctrine of suffering.
  2. The absence of a clear and prominent doctrine of self-denial is a tip off that something is amiss.
  3. The absence of serious exposition of Scripture.
  4. The absence of dealing with tensions in Scripture.
  5. Church leaders who have exorbitant lifestyles.
  6. A prominence of self and a marginalization of the greatness of God.
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From this website: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

This is a Protestant website, but Protestant groups are doing some of the best work on exposing the lies of Prosperity/Health and Wealth/Word of Faith.

There are some Catholic writers working on this issue too. Prosperity Gospel has become so pernicious that you even find it in some Catholic Churches.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I can’t think of a Protestant mega church that does not teach at least prosperity gospel lite. Not one.
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It might be then that you are not entirely familiar with term. What makes Prosperity Gospel unique (and abhorrent) is that you will receive material wealth many times over for the tithes you. Like you tithe $1 you get $5 back; it’s basically a spiritual pyramid scheme. You are probably getting this idea from famous televangelists like the Bakers that are in many cases growing rich through this scam. The most insidious part is that they tend to prey on vulnerable sick or desperate people who are stuck at home watching TV; much like happened to my devout Catholic aunt.

Prosperity Gospel

Many Mega Churches I’m aware of offer mainly an easily accessible or watered down version of standard Protestant theology. Mainly God’s grace is available free to all if you accept it (note no mention of tithe). As opposed to tithing is your way to God’s graces as Prosperity Gospel preaches. I know the difference my be lost on some Catholic ears but this is the very important difference.
mrsdizzyd said:
There are some Catholic writers working on this issue too. Prosperity Gospel has become so pernicious that you even find it in some Catholic Churches.
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Yep…it’s SO important to separate building size and the name on the sign.
 
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Even if you drop the pay to play aspect, the prosperity theology still persists. I can demand x y z of God. If I don’t get it I’m not faithful enough. Those who are faithful don’t suffer. Etc.

I know full well what it is. It might be out of fashion to demand money as a sign of faith, but demands and self are still at the heart.

I grew up surrounded by this stuff. Refer back to the 6 signs I posted. None of them require tithing.

I will say that I can think of one well known mega church pastor that does not push prosperity: Rick Warren.
 
I pray that those who are attracted to megachurches will become disillusioned by them
and receive the grace of everything that Our Lord Jesus Christ has to offer.

Thanks be to God for the sacraments!

Emotions can mislead! May they follow reason and their will, enlightened by Him.

This life is not a piece of cake…we all have challenges, there will always be some kind of suffering in this life. Suffering is a school, and Jesus in us helps us learn from it, and purifies us when we surrender to Him.
 
Dorothy said:
Emotions can mislead! May they follow reason and their will, enlightened by Him.

This life is not a piece of cake…we all have challenges, there will always be some kind of suffering in this life. Suffering is a school, and Jesus in us helps us learn from it, and purifies us when we surrender to Him.
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In my opinion I think there is a misconception around the Protestant idea of God’s grace is available for free if we just accept it. The idea is that this frees one to serve his neighbor more fully without being obsessed with salvation. This does not mean a pass on any sin, it means we act from an appreciation of this gift we can’t give away and not doing so is sin.
 
True. But I’m reading Bishop Barron’s book, ‘To Light a fire on the Earth’. It’s possible when its combined with beauty.

I love the Church. I love the Truth in it. I love it’s links to Christ and the apostles. I think we as Catholics just need to remind others of that love.
 
I think both sides ideas of justification can be misconstrued. But people on both sides can be flat out wrong. I know of Catholics who talk about not needing to go to confession because ‘They are a good person’ and ‘Do good things’. I’ve known Protestants who insist on once saved always saved… no matter what they do. Or they kind of dodge with ‘Well, if Mr. Jones who used to lector at our Church started drinking and carousing he must never have been really saved to beginwith…’.

Both are wrong.
 
Jimbo said:
True. But I’m reading Bishop Barron’s book, ‘To Light a fire on the Earth’. It’s possible when its combined with beauty.

I love the Church. I love the Truth in it. I love it’s links to Christ and the apostles. I think we as Catholics just need to remind others of that love.
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Indeed, it just seems to me some Catholics, especially many here, are not comfortable with anything not Catholic® despite years of Ecumenicalism and many declarations of shared theology.
 
I’m glad you bring that up. This mindset definitely goes both ways…indeed I’ve seen it present in several different religions (Christian and non-Christian). I think we all need to work on being a bit more tolerant of others’ beliefs even if we believe they are wrong. I admit that I was extremely intolerant when I was younger 😦
 
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PJH_74 said:
Indeed, it just seems to me some Catholics, especially many here, are not comfortable with anything not Catholic® despite years of Ecumenicalism and many declarations of shared theology.
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I’m comfortable with a lot of things that are not Catholic. Heck, I was Baptist for 30 years. Differences of opinion are one thing. I have no problem respecting people’s decisions. However, as important as it is to reach out, the overarching goal is to bring people back to the Truth. That cannot be lost sight of.
 
Angel_Gabriel said:
I’m glad you bring that up. This mindset definitely goes both ways…indeed I’ve seen it present in several different religions (Christian and non-Christian). I think we all need to work on being a bit more tolerant of others’ beliefs even if we believe they are wrong.
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I’ve often said too…which would you prefer, parents obsessed with the sports career their child will never have or people taking their children to even a watered down experience with Christ on Sunday mornings? I guess I’m not one prone to absolutes or black and whites. Many of my views tend to recognize that there is the ideal, which we should not lose sight of, but also that incremental gains are real victories. Also that sometimes breaking free somewhat from that ideal represents the best way to achieve the most we can of that ideal.
 
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Emotion-driven beliefs, the gospel of prosperity, easy rules (come as you are, when you feel like it), lack of judgment as long as you tithe heavily, etc. are very attractive to fallen human nature. It is like hyperventilation - it can be sustained for a time, but sooner or later one simply passes out (the door). They publicize stats on growth, but not on decline. The high profile failures have been spectacular. Look at Robert Schuller’s rapid, meteoric rise - and subsequent decline and fall at the Crystal Cathedral in Orange county, CA. It’s now Catholic. That was a coup on the part of the diocese.
 
po18guy said:
Emotion-driven beliefs, the gospel of prosperity, easy rules (come as you are, when you feel like it), lack of judgment as long as you tithe heavily, etc. are very attractive to fallen human nature
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I’d not be so quick to throw all of those in the same basket as I explained previously. Not everyone connects with incense, volumes of theology written in a dead language, and statues on the wall; especially people born outside of the Catholic Church and to a lesser degree Lutheran and Episcopalian Churches.
 
While it is true that people born outside the Catholic church will not understand Catholicism, that is where salvation is found.

It isn’t about where we connect but where is salvation.
 
Augustinian said:
I’m sure that’s true in some places. But I think that large growing churches are more of a danger to small protestant congregations than to the Catholic Church.
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I don’t think that they go to mega-churches, but a lot of people I went to Catholic grade school with aren’t practicing Catholics anymore.
 
Did I specifically say that ALL were the same?

Wouldn’t that be jus’ plain ignant?

Not the first time I have been accused of that.

Rather, dig into history and you will find exactly zero mega churches.
Zero “bible churches.”
Zero “worship services”
Zero “altar calls”
Zero “sinner’s prayers”

What you will find is the Apostolic Church which Christ founded.
 
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