Risen Christ Cross above Altar

  • Thread starter Thread starter rich123456
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If one is not careful, soon their will be an empty cross which is typical of almost every protestant church who even has a cross, even many Anglican or Epsicopal churches only have a cross.
You and this Bernadette person from 2011 are both missing the point that a crucifix is required to be on or near the altar during Mass and is generally placed there at other times as well, regardless of whether there is also a Risen Christ above the altar.

I thought someone already posted the Church rule regarding crucifixes in the thread.

So no, we are not eliminating Jesus on the cross from the Catholic Church. Especially after at least half a century with the Risen Jesuses also in the Church and we still have mandatory crucifixes. Not to mention Stations of the Cross in just about every church dealing pictorially with the entire crucifixion.

Again, it’s fine to have a preference in church decor, but to keep insisting that the Church is elimating the crucifix from its consciousness entirely when people are repeatedly explaining otherwise seems a bit extremist.
 
Last edited:
Well, sure He is risen! And it is theological, but the mass is not a theological study, not an exhibition It is a sacrifice! First, last and always a sacrifice. That aspect has been perhaps de-emphasized sine the 60s.

Saint Paul preached Christ, and Christ crucified. We cannot forget that either. Indeed, a crucifix must be present at all Holy Sacrifices of the Mass.

AFAIK, these “resurrectifixes” occurred nowhere on earth until the good ol’ USA in the 1970s. Hmmm…
 
AFAIK, these “resurrectifixes” occurred nowhere on earth until the good ol’ USA in the 1970s. Hmmm…
Um, in the same thread that the OP quoted some lady as claiming the Episcopals invented them, and in which you yourself posted, back in 2011, a person also posted this:
40.png
The risen Christ crucifix Traditional Catholicism
I hope my earlier comment didn’t go unnoticed. But the Risen Christ on a cross is an age-old tradition in the Byzantine Rite. Its not something modern, nor is it Protestant in origin. Its Catholic (or some would say, Orthodox). Although I do agree that how it is used somewhat overboard in some RC parishes. I do agree with its use during the Easter season, but not beyond.
In other words, the “Resurrectifix” is a very old Catholic tradition. We have already had one Byzantine Catholic (DeniseNY) posting in this thread trying repeatedly to explain that; it’s falling on deaf ears.

The portrayal of Christ as suffering on the cross only dates to the 1200s in Italy, at which point Byzantine influence in general was waning and due to the influence of some Italian artists, the agonized Christ on the crucifix replaced the serene “Christus Gloriosus” of the Byzantines.

It’s fine for people, including parish priests, to have a preference for one or the other representation, but emphasizing Risen Christ is not a 20th century idea that originated in USA.
 
Last edited:
Statues and symbols have meaning. The crucifix above the altar is there to unite us with Christ in our suffering, to remember that He suffered and died for our sins. It’s a reminder that we are sinners, and that no matter how bad we have it, that Christ suffered, was humiliated, and died for us. When someone gets bored or antsy during Mass, a gaze at the crucifix serves as a reminder to offer our sufferings up for the Lord.

The crucifix evokes pain and suffering; and pain and suffering in themselves evoke a sense of respect, quiet, contemplation. It is there to help us reflect on our lives and our own sins. The hope and joy of the Resurrection is wonderful, but joy does not lead to the same type of penitential reflection that suffering does.

Having the “resurrexifix” or whatever others have called it, to me, leads to a false sense of security. As if “yes, without a doubt, we’re all going to rise with Christ!” It’s not a guarantee.

We talk about the “mystery” of evil and suffering in the world. Nobody really contemplates or complains about joy. Thinking about “joy” doesn’t really lead one to change their lives in a meaningful way.

More proper would be a crucifix above the altar, and a view of the resurrected Christ at the back of Church - to contemplate our sins and sufferings upon entering and during Mass, but recognizing our hope on the way out.

a final note - nobody can see the tiny crucifixes on the tabernacle or elsewhere on the altar; it is a weak argument to claim that they lead to the same type of reflection that the standard, large crucifix above the altar does
 
Last edited:
So how did the Church survive its first 1200 years without agonized portrayals of Jesus on the crucifix, given that the image of suffering Jesus on the cross dates from the 1200s in Italy?
 
The risen, glorified body of Christ does not deny, but only validates his passion, suffering, and death…many have died, only one has risen in the glorified form, which is the impetus for our belief that we will, on the last day, will also rise because he defeated death! And, I would like to think my Franciscan brothers and sisters have it right!

440px-Kruis_san_damiano|360x500
 
I have seen and heard of many souls who have had their lives changed while meditating in front of the crucified Jesus.

Some thoughts:

The Mass is primarily a sacrifice - Jesus’ necessary sacrifice, and our own necessary sacrifice.

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to take up your cross and follow in my footsteps. To make your life about Jesus is to accept a life of sacrifice.

When Satan offered Jesus “all these kingdoms will be yours…” it was a real temptation. Because Jesus could have achieved his goal without any pain, suffering, torture, crucifixion. Jesus chose the path of sacrifice instead. As we should.

And…….when Peter suggests with horror that Jesus should not have to suffer, Jesus rebukes him saying “Get behind me Satan.” (as in…get behind me and follow in my footsteps.) Jesus is again reaffirming that following in his path is one involving pain, suffering, sacrifice.

The crucified Jesus conveys to me all of these things. The risen Jesus (or empty cross) does not. They say something about the reward, but nothing about the hard work or the daily road ahead. At least for me. I need to be reminded regularly that the path I must choose is not the broad easy path, but the narrow painful one.
 
Regarding “the little crucifix on the altar is not enough”, this is the altar of the FSSP parish where I attended Mass today. Taken after Mass of course, but it looked the same during High Mass. There was also a normal sized traditional gold processional crucifix that was carried in, placed on a stand off to the side in the sanctuary, and carried out at the end.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Now in fairness, this church, which is old, does have a very large crucifix in it also… on the back wall of the church next to the exit.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

My point being that if a one-foot-high crucifix on the altar works for the FSSP, it works for me. The large art on this altar is clearly directed to Jesus as King of the Universe and Mary as Queen of Heaven. Works for me.
 
Last edited:
I am good with it. As long as it can be seen clearly.
 
Last edited:
SORROW FIRST, THEN JOY……GREAT JOY!

Yes, I have formed my opinion on why a Crucifix large or small needs to be front and center in every Catholic Church. This is my passion. This is what we the people need. And I will yell it out for all to hear. Not with any other motive except to help others find a deeper Catholic faith. Because this is the best way to bring others to what we have been gifted in Christ Jesus. We are Catholic Christians. We preach Christ Crucified. We have a Cancer, and this is our darkness, our sin. We have the Confessionals; we have our very own beautiful hospital. The joy of being healed starts with the Crucified Christ.

“Try looking at pain as something that transforms. Once you learn to hold opposites together, you can find happiness.” Richard Rohr, O.F.M.

32 years later, with so many struggles in between my new Catholic faith brought me back to that room when I was eight years old where my mother laid. She was gone. We won’t find a place, home or church here on earth that will protect us from sin. This room through the years has clearly shown me this. Church is not a place to condemn others or ourselves because of our sin, rather a battlefield with the great physician at its very core. Forgiveness at its very core.

Like the room with the soft yellow light where I stood with my father and his father, I have found peace in a place where there seldom is any. But from my mother’s room and yours there is a hall that leads to the center of all homes, to the center of our very own souls. In this room there is the cross, there is our Savior upon it…you want to grab everyone you have ever known, ever loved and even hated…you want to pull everyone that you have ever hurt and been hurt by to the very foot of this cross and take a good long hard, honest look at what our savior Jesus has done, is doing for each one of us. To be pulled into death on a cross, to move beyond our cross upon are saviors back through its dark passions of a self-centered self into our Shepard’s arms… into our Fathers love forever. The cross stands in heaven and earth as the great divide… on the dark side a crucified savior with a beam of soft yellow light piercing the void, forming a narrow path, a beacon of hope for the lost, for us. On the back side is the light of God illuminating heaven while exposing the pit of death in which we are delivered from. This is our door home. We should not take the backside, the resurrection and place it in front to ease our pain. This door in our Churches must remain as is. I know it seems harsh. It’s not. Its tough love.
 
Yes, it was a Polish-American parish. It was having trouble staying afloat so they and the Archdiocese all worked out a deal to let FSSP take over and use it as a Latin Mass Parish while still having some Polish language Masses.

I forgot it used to be a Polish parish till I got there and saw the eagle and a bunch of statues/ pictures of Polish saints and blesseds.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I have formed my opinion on why a Crucifix large or small needs to be front and center in every Catholic Church.
Your opinion. Please recognize that this opinion is entirely your own and that the spirituality of others is often not similar to yours. We are all called to different relationships with God and our devotionals, iconographic attachments, and personal expressions of faith are all different and they should be. Do not force your spirituality on someone else because you believe it to be right.
 
It’s not so much aged off and died, it’s that their descendants have become more well-off and moved to wealthier areas outside the original parish. We have the same issues with Italians. They built these beautiful churches for themselves and then within a couple generations everybody has moved away. Often they become “National Parishes” which means all the people who moved away still support the old church and come back there to worship at least on holidays, other times another Catholic ethnic group like Latino or Vietnamese moves into the old neighborhood and starts using the church, and in other cases they get a religious order to move in and run the church in connection with the order’s monastery or school. The particular city where this church is located already has nine Polish National Parishes and probably can’t get support or diocesan approval for any more, so they got the FSSP to come in since they still have the very nice ad orientem high altar.
 
Last edited:
Its not so much a personal opinion as it is a calling. Comes from deep within and it can’t be contained.
I do not believe it should be contained. Only God knows for sure. I am not where many are here…not yet.
The Church I attended in Utah had a life size bronze Crucifix. The Church I attend now has a life-size Golden Crucifix. Sorry about your loss. I know the pain. Having Christ in our lives, very much alive makes it all worth it. His light is very bright indeed. God I love Easter. I remember how it felt to be there for the first time at the Easter Vigil in 1999. I was baptized on that night.

For many years I had some great Easter egg hunts and family dinners with many who are now gone. But when I realized I was really at Easter for the first time in my life …this sticks with you forever.
 
“Try looking at pain as something that transforms. Once you learn to hold opposites together, you can find happiness.” Richard Rohr, O.F.M.
Not to jump all over you on Christmas, but Fr. Richard Rohr is a controversial figure and his teachings aren’t universally embraced on this forum. One of our priest posters just spoke out against some of his theology on here not long ago. If one is interested in the theology of suffering, I think Mother Angelica and Ven. Fulton Sheen are much, much better to read than Fr. Rohr.
 
I take comfort in knowing that my opinion is formed from our Lords Passion. I am just who I am. Another fallen Catholic in need of Gods Grace. My opinion formed from not only our Lord Himself but backed up by over 2000 years of Saints and sinners alike. The Crucifixion first and foremost. Everything else follow this.
“As they were looking on, so we too gaze on his wounds as he hangs. We see his blood as he dies. We see the price offered by the redeemer, touch the scars of his resurrection. He bows his head, as if to kiss you. His heart is made bare open, as it were, in love to you. His arms are extended that he may embrace you. His whole body is displayed for your redemption. Ponder how great these things are. Let all this be rightly weighed in your mind: as he was once fixed to the cross in every part of his body for you, so he may now be fixed in every part of your soul.” – St. Augustine

O souls! seek a refuge, like pure doves, in the shadow of the crucifix. There mourn the Passion of your divine Spouse, and drawing from your hearts flames of love and rivers of tears, make of them a precious balm with which to anoint the wounds of your Saviour. – St. Paul of the Cross
 
Last edited:
This may be true of this particlar forum, but as far as I know Fr. Rohr is a priest in good standing.
His teachings may not be to the liking if some on this forum, but that doesn’t make them wrong.
 
We used His book for many years to help bring others into the Church. (A survey of the Catholic Church.)
Great book / RCIA approved.
 
Last edited:
This may be true of this particlar forum, but as far as I know Fr. Rohr is a priest in good standing.
His teachings may not be to the liking if some on this forum, but that doesn’t make them wrong.
The last person who advocated Fr. Rohr on the forum repeatedly has now been suspended. That’s all I know.
My impression from that whole business is that Fr. Rohr’s teachings are controversial like I said.
Has nothing to do with him being a “priest in good standing” or not. There are plenty of “priests in good standing” who say and do things that are a little bit questionable and probably not good discussion fodder on this forum.

If people want to have another thread on Fr Rohr, they can go for it, I’m not going to be reading any author that a trusted priest whom I actually know speaks against. I personally would not use his books for RCIA.

The topic here (suffering being “transformative” ) has also been controversial in the past for the very reasons that Jharek posted. The subject is emotional for people who have suffered or seen someone suffer. But again, if you all want to talk about that, go for it.

I think I’ll mute this thread now as I’ve posted enough in it, and I really don’t want to participate in yet another Father Rohr thread as they have not gone well in the recent past. Have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top