Rising Protestant tide sweeps Catholic Brazil

[rien]

One can actually learn more about Catholicism - in some cases - outside the Catholic Church than within it. For example, you may take RCIA from someone who believes in liberation theology, under the guidance of a priest who deemphasizes spirituality for resistance to corporate greed, in a parish sympathetic to homosexual rights. You may never learn of the resurrection, which is preached over at First Baptist. Core Catholic doctrine may be denied or ignored, as documented on posts on CAF, in favor of theological novelty by those who disregard both the authority of Scripture and of the Church. Meanwhile, down the street, First Baptist may vociferously preach, teach and model a Biblical lifestyle wholly in accord with Catholicism, while departing on some issues. The priest in this case might reject almost all of Catholicism, while the Baptist pastor in this situation might, oddly, be far more Catholic in his theology and teaching than the priest. The question is who is closer to truth when you look past the label.

The person leading the RCIA at the parish closest to m - this is in the US - teaches that beleif in the real Presnce is optional and emphasizes the social Gospel. She is bringing in a good number of converts but this once orthodox parish is now anything but. About half the orthodox beleivers have converted to Eastern Orthodoxy or dropped out altogether. As in giving up. No support from the bishop here or frankly from Rome either.

Problem is, many priests and bishops really don’t beleive - if they did and felt they’d lose their souls for leading sheep astray they would not have allowed the catechital disaster of the past several decades. I am talking US here but the situation in Brazil is probably generally analogous.

 

[OriginalJS]

More catechizing won’t cut it, as someone else already posted, because you’re still remaining at the level of the intellect. That’s part of the reason the Pentecostals and Charismatics are growing: they know how to change people’s lives, bodies, and hearts, as well as minds. Healings and exorcisms really make sense – and are powerful – in a culture (South America, Africa, e.g.) where people really believe in the supernatural. The Catholic Church still has potential regarding its own vibrant power of healing and exorcism, so the game is by no means over on this issue.

The other reason for Pentecostal and Charismatic attractiveness has to do with the link between Protestantism and capitalism. Latin Americans want TVs, cars, computers – all the things Gringos already have, and Pentecostals/Charismatics are not afraid to say that God wants you to have those things too. This may be an area where the Church is much more vulnerable, compared to the Pentecostals.

This hits the nail on the head. Many condemn “prosperity theology” but it sure has strong appeal. For a lot of people the concept of living in a fancy house and driving expensive cars is quite attractive, especially if you believe that God wants you to be rich. The magisterium had better get its head out of the sand and counterattack now using some up to date methods that will exert strong appeal.

 

[Elzee]

More catechizing won’t cut it, as someone else already posted, because you’re still remaining at the level of the intellect. That’s part of the reason the Pentecostals and Charismatics are growing: they know how to change people’s lives, bodies, and hearts, as well as minds. Healings and exorcisms really make sense – and are powerful – in a culture (South America, Africa, e.g.) where people really believe in the supernatural. The Catholic Church still has potential regarding its own vibrant power of healing and exorcism, so the game is by no means over on this issue.

The other reason for Pentecostal and Charismatic attractiveness has to do with the link between Protestantism and capitalism. Latin Americans want TVs, cars, computers – all the things Gringos already have, and Pentecostals/Charismatics are not afraid to say that God wants you to have those things too. This may be an area where the Church is much more vulnerable, compared to the Pentecostals.

I wish this line of thinking wasn’t correct,but I’m afraid you’re right.

 

[Nohome]

Problem is, many priests and bishops really don’t beleive - if they did and felt they’d lose their souls for leading sheep astray they would not have allowed the catechital disaster of the past several decades. I am talking US here but the situation in Brazil is probably generally analogous.

I suspect this is the case for Brazil as well as the rest of the world. That said, there are some priests and bishops that truly believe.

Nohome

 

[THurifer2]

So it is better if the man is an epileptic drunk on a sidewalk, as long as he is Catholic (but totally uninformed and unformed in faith) than as a healed, Jesus-loving praise singer and prayer warrior who is living a holy life before God?

He wasn’t a Catholic when he was an epileptic drunk.

It drives me bonkers when people call themselves somthing of which they have nothing to do with. I have talked to people who say they are Catholic but disbelieve nearly everything the church teaches and haven’t set foot inside of a Church for decades…That is not a Catholic in my opinion. .

What made this man a Catholic? Because he was a Brazilian? I would be willing to bet that one is considered a Catholic in Brazil if they are not registerd in a protestant church…even if they have never set foot inside of a Catholic church.The man was likely no more Catholic than he was Buddhist. It is good that he found Christ…now he just needs to keep on seeking to come all the way home.

 

[Truthstalker]

He wasn’t a Catholic when he was an epileptic drunk.

It drives me bonkers when people call themselves somthing of which they have nothing to do with. I have talked to people who say they are Catholic but disbelieve nearly everything the church teaches and haven’t set foot inside of a Church for decades…That is not a Catholic in my opinion. .

What made this man a Catholic? Because he was a Brazilian? I would be willing to bet that one is considered a Catholic in Brazil if they are not registerd in a protestant church…even if they have never set foot inside of a Catholic church.The man was likely no more Catholic than he was Buddhist. It is good that he found Christ…now he just needs to keep on seeking to come all the way home.

The OP says he is a “former Catholic.”

 

[THurifer2]

The other reason for Pentecostal and Charismatic attractiveness has to do with the link between Protestantism and capitalism. Latin Americans want TVs, cars, computers – all the things Gringos already have, and Pentecostals/Charismatics are not afraid to say that God wants you to have those things too. This may be an area where the Church is much more vulnerable, compared to the Pentecostals.

Yes it is easy to sell prosperity theology to those who have little. Unfortunately it is a false theology which is not of the narrow way.

 

[Truthstalker]

Yes it is easy to sell prosperity theology to those who have little. Unfortunately it is a false theology which is not of the narrow way.

Not all charismatics or evangelicals are of the health and wealth variety. Many of these converts are really being helped by God.
The question perhaps you should ask yourselves is why God is working in miraculous ways outside the Catholic Church in ways He does not seem to be working within it, at least in Brazil. Underestimating the theological appeal of evangelical and pentecostal theology without understanding it well enough to refute it will only cause further losses to the Catholic Church.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Not all charismatics or evangelicals are of the health and wealth variety. Many of these converts are really being helped by God.
The question perhaps you should ask yourselves is why God is working in miraculous ways outside the Catholic Church in ways He does not seem to be working within it, at least in Brazil. Underestimating the theological appeal of evangelical and pentecostal theology without understanding it well enough to refute it will only cause further losses to the Catholic Church.

It has been my impression that Social Justice, Liberation Theology, etc have been more a Catholic offering. The Protestant groups seem to thrive by ignoring these and pushing a basic belief and trust in God. I have seen Catholic groups criticizing the fundamentalists for their failure to push Social Justice.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I was brought back to the Catholic Church through faith in Jesus Christ, who was introduced to me by a TV evangelist, Oral Roberts.

Faith is from God. Religion is how we respond to that faith.

Jim

 

[Holly3278]

Too bad it isn’t Catholicism that is sweeping the nation. I would support this at least somewhat if the nation were not already Catholic but was Pagan or something instead. However, the nation is already Catholic and therefore I do not think I can support this, especially not if this Protestant revival is causing Catholics to leave the faith.

 

[Nohome]

Too bad it isn’t Catholicism that is sweeping the nation. I would support this at least somewhat if the nation were not already Catholic but was Pagan or something instead. However, the nation is already Catholic and therefore I do not think I can support this, especially not if this Protestant revival is causing Catholics to leave the faith.

I guess that depends on what you think it means to be Catholic. If you are truly Catholic, there is no way any protestant view could cause you to “leave the faith”. Surely we are talking about people who already left or never were Catholic in the first place.

While 96 percent of young Catholics back the use of condoms to prevent pregnancy and sexually-transmitted diseases, only three percent oppose it, according to the Ibope Institute survey.

In addition, 79 percent of young Brazilian Catholics do not agree with the Vatican’s opposition to sex before marriage, while 20 percent favor abstinence. the poll showed.

Moreover, 88 percent believe someone can use contraceptives and remain a good Catholic, while 62 percent consider the Church behind the curve because of its views on condoms and pre-marital sex, the survey showed.

Rafael Cifuentes, head of the Life and Family Episcopal Commission of Brazil’s Conference of Bishops, said the Brazilians who were surveyed were “young people who say they are Catholic but do not practice Catholicism.”

“They are Catholics only by name,” he said.

newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view_article.php?article_id=64362

Brazil is a very Catholic nation with very few Catholics.

Nohome

 

[Seagirt]

I think the success of Fr. Marcelo Rossi shows that people want to feel God’s presence. Its not an intellectual thing so perhaps improved catechesis isn’t the answer.

The Church needs to be sure that it is meeting the needs of its people. So in addition to its well known material services to the poor, perhaps the Church would do well to start speaking their “language”, too. Find out what they envision themselves seeking and meet them there.

PEOPLE everywhere want better lives for themselves and their children. The Catholic Church must do more to criticize the oppressive poverty and corruption of the LATIN countries. The wealthy classes have been successful in holding on to their wealth and preventing a middle class from emerging. The Drug cartels must be stopped. These poor, oppressed people will look to anything-- whether Pentacostolism or Leftist regimes, that offer hope in hopeless times.

 

[Nohome]

These poor, oppressed people will look to anything-- whether Pentacostolism or Leftist regimes, that offer hope in hopeless times.

Historically, this is something the Church has been able to provide. It appears that now other are simply doing a better job.

Nohome

 

[Joe_Kelley]

PEOPLE everywhere want better lives for themselves and their children. The Catholic Church must do more to criticize the oppressive poverty and corruption of the LATIN countries. The wealthy classes have been successful in holding on to their wealth and preventing a middle class from emerging. The Drug cartels must be stopped. These poor, oppressed people will look to anything-- whether Pentacostolism or Leftist regimes, that offer hope in hopeless times.

Good theory, but it isn’t working. The Catholic Church is currently doing that much more vigorously than the fundamentalists, and the people are turning to the fundamentalists. Continuing with more of the same will probably achieve more of the same results.

 

[M-Dent]

While praising the efforts of catechists and lay movements and the church’s educational and charitable works, the pontiff said there has been “a certain weakening of Christian life in society overall” and in the church “due to secularism, hedonism, indifferentism and proselytism by numerous sects, animist religions and new pseudoreligious phenomena.”

Noting that “the church has the great task of guarding and nourishing the faith of the people of God and reminding the faithful that … they are called to be disciples and missionaries,” the pope emphasized that catechesis and Sunday Mass must be the foundations of church life.

It is “necessary to intensify the catechesis and the faith formation not only of children, but also of young people and adults,” he said, a task that must be done not only through homilies, lectures and courses, but with other methods, including the print and electronic media and Internet.

Calling Sunday Mass “an effective way of teaching the faith,” the pope urged families to participate together in the weekly Eucharist. He made no mention of the particular challenge this poses in Latin America, which is home to 43 percent of the world’s Catholics but has about 7,000 lay people per priest, the highest ratio in the world.

In some rural areas, such as the Andes, a priest visits villages only once a year. Those communities depend on lay leaders for catechesis and liturgies. In some areas the shortage of priests has been a factor in the rise of evangelical churches.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0702714.htm

Without the Eucharist and the grace offered from it there is little hope hedonism can be overcome.

The devil knows very well how to beat a human and that’s to get in the middle of a person and God’s grace.