Road map to persecution?

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Road map to persecution?

U.K. REGULATIONS INCREASE PRESSURE ON CHRISTIANS

By ED VITAGLIANO

Many Christians in the United Kingdom (U.K.) fear that new laws passed by Parliament, designed to protect homosexuals from discrimination, will soon be used to threaten the religious freedoms of those who refuse to accept that lifestyle.

That fear seemed to materialize almost immediately, after a bishop in the Church of England was hauled before an employment tribunal when he refused to hire as a youth worker a non-repentant homosexual man.

The Right Reverend Anthony Priddis, Bishop of Hereford, was brought up on charges of sexual orientation discrimination by John Reaney, and the case is a potential blockbuster.

Read full article here:
afajournal.org/0607uk.asp
 
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A bill in Congress could make it a crime for pastors and churches to speak against homosexuality

afa.net/hatecrime2.asp
 
As an matter of interest can gays be taken to the Employment Tribunal if they refuse to employ Christians?

If they can, then does that count as anti-gay persecution? Which would mean that Christians and gays are equally persecuted and as for Christian gays . . .

Not always being allowed to get your own way isn’t persecution, Dafur is persecution.
 
There has already been a thread here discussing the bills in Congress and neither the House nor Senate versions have anything in them to suggest that speaking against homosexuality will be a crime. The AFA headline is an out and out lie.

I don’t like the proposed legislation, think it’s unnecessary, and could lead to later abuses if court interpretations expand the scope of it. Neither do I like the lies scare tactics employed by AFA and others in their efforts to drum up opposition to it.
 
Hi Silvername, welcome to CAF. 👋
A bill in Congress could make it a crime for pastors and churches to speak against homosexuality
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I agree with Bob. AFA and other groups have tried this scare tactic over and over with this bill (which itself has been introduced over and over, in each succeeding Congress… all to no avail).

I don’t think the bill is going to become a law, at least with President Bush in office. That should give time to AFA to come up with a better organizing tactic than making stuff up.
 
I’m not a homosexual and would feel weird in the presence of anyone who is, but they are still people. Some are really sick, but their are others whoo have some really good ideas and are normal people. They can’t help but feel an attraction for the same sex. It isn’t really their fault. Homosexuals don’t say, “I’m gonna rebel against God and love whoever.” If God is truly loving, he’d understand this and be very disappointed on how we are treating some of the homosexuals out there.

I believe he is.
 
I’ve read the bill. It it dealing with crimes of violence not speech.

However it does call for a higher punishment if a crime is deemed a hate crime. Now to deem a crime a hate crime the prosecutor has to assume that thoughts and beliefs of the criminal.

This is a very dangerous road to go down… our laws protect speech and hence they must protect thought since speech comes from our thoughts.

A straight man kills a homosexual. In most cases I’ve heard of this would automatically be called a hate crime. But who really knows what was in the mind of the murderer?

IMHO, all crimes are based on hate so all crimes are hate crimes.

We need to punish the act, not ones thought.

It is any more horrific for a person to kill a gay man then it is for a person to rape and kill a woman? Every day hundreds of women are raped and killed in the USA. It’s so common that we have forgotten that this is THE MOST PREVALENT hate crime. It is to prevalent that we accept it as almost normal. I don’t hear the choir calling for stiffer punishment of this hate crime.

Punish the crime and not the thoughts. If we punish the thoughts, then we open the door to let in a totalitarian government.
 
Kaninchen said:
As an matter of interest can gays be taken to the Employment Tribunal if they refuse to employ Christians?

If they can, then does that count as anti-gay persecution? Which would mean that Christians and gays are equally persecuted and as for Christian gays . . .

Not always being allowed to get your own way isn’t persecution, Dafur is persecution.
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There are different kinds of persecution. Being executed for your beliefs and that is the most obvious. Hence many people confuse extermination with persecution. In reality organisations such as Amnesty International and the UN recognise different ‘levels’ of persecution. Persecution is, in essence, punishment for what a person believes and inhibition of the living out of that belief. Level 1 persecution could be harressment, social stigma and non-govenment sanctioned bullying, level 2 would be government sanctioned fines on beliefs and certain actions, level 3 governemt custody and ‘re-education’ of children and so it goes on up to sanctioned extermination. Of course, not all persecution is government sanctioned so it’s a complex area.

In east Germany during the cold war people found to attend a Church would be denied education and work. Execution was not the primary means of quelling the masses - though it did happen. Just because Christians were not killed did not mean they were not persecuted.

Laws in the UK do seem to be moving towards punishing Christians for incorrect beliefs. Certainly I see the day soon in which Christians will be denied work for holding certain beliefs. This is already proving to be the case with work in the civil service. Anyway, let’s not contain persecution to extermination. There are other ways of punishing a person’s beliefs and curtailing their freedom of expression. Verious secular lobbies have been very keen to remind us of this and seem hell bent on applying the preceived persecution they think they had us on Christians. I think the days of faith schools are coming to an end here on that basis.
 
Jedinovice said:
Laws in the UK do seem to be moving towards punishing Christians for incorrect beliefs.
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We’ve had this conversation before and I would suggest that the whole ‘persecution’ thing is hyperbole - hyperbole which is an ‘victimist’ insult to all those who have been persecuted, including your Christian martyrs and all those who were targets of the Stasi State you talk about (the Stasi were equal opportunity nasties, by the way, it wasn’t just Christians).

You didn’t answer the question about whether gays (who have been discriminated against for centuries) would be taken to an Employment Tribunal if they refuse to employ Christians (who haven’t).
 
Kaninchen said:
We’ve had this conversation before and I would suggest that the whole ‘persecution’ thing is hyperbole - hyperbole which is an ‘victimist’ insult to all those who have been persecuted, including your Christian martyrs and all those who were targets of the Stasi State you talk about (the Stasi were equal opportunity nasties, by the way, it wasn’t just Christians)…
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It is? Who are you to dictate to us Catholics what persecution is Mr. Pharisee?
 
Kaninchen said:
We’ve had this conversation before and I would suggest that the whole ‘persecution’ thing is hyperbole - hyperbole which is an ‘victimist’ insult to all those who have been persecuted, including your Christian martyrs and all those who were targets of the Stasi State you talk about (the Stasi were equal opportunity nasties, by the way, it wasn’t just Christians).

You didn’t answer the question about whether gays (who have been discriminated against for centuries) would be taken to an Employment Tribunal if they refuse to employ Christians (who haven’t).
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Do you even know what persecution is?
 
Kaninchen said:
I know that, with many here, it appears to mean “when the law doesn’t do precisely what we want it to do”.
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So when the law says that we can’t speak our opinion that’s not persecution? Do you desire to lecture to us Catholics about what martyrdom is, because it won’t work.
 
bones_IV said:
So when the law says that we can’t speak our opinion that’s not persecution?
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Depends on what ‘speaking your opinion’ means, really, doesn’t it? “All witches are very naughty and won’t go to heaven” would be one thing, “We must burn all the witches now!” would be quite another.
Do you desire to lecture to us Catholics about what martyrdom is, because it won’t work.
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Err, I think that a reading of the thread would reveal that you’ve got the impulse to lecture the wrong way around. Mind you, perhaps I should save that line (amended, obviously, for faith/social circumstances) for initial response the next time a “persecution” thread turns up. You won’t mind, I take it?
 
Kaninchen said:
Depends on what ‘speaking your opinion’ means, really, doesn’t it? “All witches are very naughty and won’t go to heaven” would be one thing, “We must burn all the witches now!” would be quite another.
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Illogical statements and reading into something that’s not there.
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Kaninchen:
Err, I think that a reading of the thread would reveal that you’ve got the impulse to lecture the wrong way around. Mind you, perhaps I should save that line (amended, obviously, for faith/social circumstances) for initial response the next time a “persecution” thread turns up. You won’t mind, I take it?
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Seems like you’re looking to bury your head in the sand again huh?

“That fear seemed to materialize almost immediately, after a bishop in the Church of England was hauled before an employment tribunal when he refused to hire as a youth worker a non-repentant homosexual man.”
 
bones_IV said:
Illogical statements and reading into something that’s not there.
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Oh dear.
Seems like you’re looking to bury your head in the sand again huh?
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Wow!
“That fear seemed to materialize almost immediately, after a bishop in the Church of England was hauled before an employment tribunal when he refused to hire as a youth worker a non-repentant homosexual man.”
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Would a gay be hauled before the Employment Tribunal for not employing a Christian man?
 
Kaninchen said:
Oh dear.

Wow!

Would a gay be hauled before the Employment Tribunal for not employing a Christian man?
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I get the impression you’re more interested in trotting out victim hood then you are in finding out the truth aren’t you? Seems like you’ve been bitten by the political correctness bug.
 
bones_IV said:
I get the impression you’re more interested in trotting out victim hood then you are in finding out the truth aren’t you? Seems like you’ve been bitten by the political correctness bug.
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I’ve obviously been very, very naughty.
 
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