Rochester bishop: Vatican isn’t against homosexuals entering priesthood

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The bishop of the New York diocese of Rochester has dismissed a statement from the Vatican banning individuals with “deep-seated” homosexual tendencies from entering the priesthood, saying that he has “always tried to be open” to such persons.

“I know some magnificent gay priests,” said Bishop Matthew Clark, according to the Rochester City Newspaper. “If they are openly gay in terms of living a lifestyle that is incompatible with their basic commitments, we have to intervene. But I have always tried to be open to such candidates.”

lifesitenews.com/news/rochester-bishop-vatican-isnt-against-homosexuals-entering-priesthood
 
Awesome 😃 The best way to change social perceptions is from within a group. Hopefully more gays will join the church and change a few minds.
 
How do you mean? Change minds about what?
Homophobia, or outright oppression of gays, is an issue within many churches. People, here on this forum as well, can’t separate homosexuality from homosexual acts. I have seen more people than I can count, and heard more than I can believe, state that just being homosexual is a sin and that homosexuals are inherently evil. Even by Catholic standards this is not the case. If homosexuals make it into positions of power within the church this might change some minds.
 
“If they are openly gay in terms of **living a lifestyle **that is incompatible with their basic commitments, we have to intervene. But I have always tried to be open to such candidates.”
Incompatible??? Is this now the politically correct terminology for sin?
 
Homophobia, or outright oppression of gays, is an issue within many churches. People, here on this forum as well, can’t separate homosexuality from homosexual acts. I have seen more people than I can count, and heard more than I can believe, state that just being homosexual is a sin and that homosexuals are inherently evil. Even by Catholic standards this is not the case. If homosexuals make it into positions of power within the church this might change some minds.
If your hope of minds changing is limited to respecting the dignity of individuals, then I can agree with you. However, I would say that such minds that need changing are those that are unable to make the distinction between SSA and acts, not the Church herself, nor her hierarchy.

And it goes both ways. Those on the homosexual side that wish to be accepted within the Church must also recognize that homosexual acts are disordered and they are called to celibacy. Those unable to separate their own acts from the dignity of themselves are just as problematic as those unable to discern SSA from homosexual acts. This announcement by the Rochester bishop should not be read by the homosexual community as an endorsement of any particular activity (and the bishop does make that distinction).

What is problematic to me is what Tigg highlighted: "But I have always tried to be open to such candidates.” Is he saying he is open to actively gay applicants to seminary? If so, that is a real problem. However, if he meant it in the sense that you did (those with SSA should not be discriminated against), then I don’t see a problem with his statement. But his wording seems to support the former, not the latter.
 
And it goes both ways. Those on the homosexual side that wish to be accepted within the Church must also recognize that homosexual acts are disordered and they are called to celibacy. Those unable to separate their own acts from the dignity of themselves are just as problematic as those unable to discern SSA from homosexual acts. This announcement by the Rochester bishop should not be read by the homosexual community as an endorsement of any particular activity (and the bishop does make that distinction).

What is problematic to me is what Tigg highlighted: "But I have always tried to be open to such candidates.” Is he saying he is open to actively gay applicants to seminary? If so, that is a real problem. However, if he meant it in the sense that you did (those with SSA should not be discriminated against), then I don’t see a problem with his statement. But his wording seems to support the former, not the latter.
I agree. As long as those who have SSA have demonstrated that they can and HAVE led chaste lifestyles for a significant amount of time before entering the seminary, there’s no reason not to let them in. It goes the same for straight men. If they’ve recently had a sexual relationship with a woman, they’re usually not allowed in either until they TOO can prove they can lead chaste lives.
 
If your hope of minds changing is limited to respecting the dignity of individuals
Yes.
, then I can agree with you. However, I would say that such minds that need changing are those that are unable to make the distinction between SSA and acts, not the Church herself, nor her hierarchy.
The church doesn’t have to change, the people do. Unless you’re saying the church is the people.
And it goes both ways. Those on the homosexual side that wish to be accepted within the Church must also recognize that homosexual acts are disordered and they are called to celibacy. Those unable to separate their own acts from the dignity of themselves are just as problematic as those unable to discern SSA from homosexual acts. This announcement by the Rochester bishop should not be read by the homosexual community as an endorsement of any particular activity (and the bishop does make that distinction).
The thing about religion, is that you need to do what it says. The Catholic doctrine clearly states homosexual acts are sinful. I don’t disagree that’s what it says. I am upset that too many people take it a step too far and say homosexuals themselves, acts or not, are sinful.
What is problematic to me is what Tigg highlighted: "But I have always tried to be open to such candidates.” Is he saying he is open to actively gay applicants to seminary?
No.
If so, that is a real problem. However, if he meant it in the sense that you did (those with SSA should not be discriminated against), then I don’t see a problem with his statement. But his wording seems to support the former, not the latter.
I don’t think he’d support openly gay members in the church…
 
Incompatible??? Is this now the politically correct terminology for sin?
he is saying to live a homosexual lifestyle meaning engaging in homosexual practices.Aprofessed homosexual does not have to give in to sinful desires.Incompatible is meant not in accordance with vows taken;poverty ,celibacy,etc.
 
The Church should use the phrase celibate same sex attracted.

Celibate same sex attracted men who practice chastity, can and should be ordained.

Unfaithful noncelibate same sex attracted men who embrace the homosexual lifestyle should not be ordained.
 
The Church should use the phrase celibate same sex attracted.
If you’re SSA you’re homosexual. Would you prefer to change the wording because of negative connotations traditionally associated with homosexuality or is there another reason?
 
The Church should use the phrase celibate same sex attracted.

Celibate same sex attracted men who practice chastity, can and should be ordained.

Unfaithful noncelibate same sex attracted men who embrace the homosexual lifestyle should not be ordained.
Why do you say that he should be ordained. SSA is a moral disorder, and usually candidates are excluded from ordination because of moral disorders.
 
Why do you say that he should be ordained. SSA is a moral disorder, and usually candidates are excluded from ordination because of moral disorders.
It’s only a moral disorder if you act upon that impulse. We are all driven by impulses, some good and some bad. If we can manage those impulses, in this case if homosexuals can remain celibate, where is the sin?
 
It’s only a moral disorder if you act upon that impulse. We are all driven by impulses, some good and some bad. If we can manage those impulses, in this case if homosexuals can remain celibate, where is the sin?
A moral disorder is defined as an impulse that goes against natural law. Acting on the impulse is a sin, the impulse itself is not a sin. People with SSA are not sinful just because they are being tested with an extra challenge in life, it is not their choice. I personally believe that among Catholics more mortal sins of sexual nature (e.g. fornication, contraception, abortion etc.) are committed by people that do not have SSA.
 
The voice of reason would tell me that a chaste homosexual priest would have more than his share of problems to deal with. Wouldn’t he be constantly struggling with his own intrinsic disorder yet be expected to give counsel and spiritual advice to heterosexual married couples, all the while defending Church teaching on the subject. That’s sounds like a pretty tall order!
 
A moral disorder is defined as an impulse that goes against natural law. Acting on the impulse is a sin, the impulse itself is not a sin. People with SSA are not sinful just because they are being tested with an extra challenge in life, it is not their choice. I personally believe that among Catholics more mortal sins of sexual nature (e.g. fornication, contraception, abortion etc.) are committed by people that do not have SSA.
So you think that heterosexual people commit more sins but homosexuals, who commit less sin, and succeed in fighting their urges, are morally disordered enough to not be an official in the church?
 
The voice of reason would tell me that a chaste homosexual priest would have more than his share of problems to deal with. Wouldn’t he be constantly struggling with his own intrinsic disorder yet be expected to give counsel and spiritual advice to heterosexual married couples, all the while defending Church teaching on the subject. That’s sounds like a pretty tall order!
Does this mean homosexuals should be denied outright? Everyone has their cross to bear.
 
Lynx,

A person who practices the virtue of chastity will become capable of looking past their sexual needs. Chastity enables a person to relate to other people as people (not as potential sexual objects).

With practice, chaste people don’t concern themselves with their internal sexual desires, whether they be same sex attracted or heterosexual attracted.

In the Catholic priesthood (and amoung Catholic religious) the importance is on fidelity. The question is, whether or not a person will and can faithfully commit to a lifetime of obedience to the Church (to their vow with Jesus) and to the practice of chastity.
 
So you think that heterosexual people commit more sins but homosexuals, who commit less sin, and succeed in fighting their urges, are morally disordered enough to not be an official in the church?
I did not say that heterosexual people commit more sins. I said that I believe that among practicing Catholics the heterosexual people probably are more prone to commit sins of sexual nature.

A lot of heterosexual people are still morally disordered for many different reasons, and because of that they cannot be ordained. You have to realize that a lot of people that enter in seminary are not allowed to continue to the ordination.
 
In illuminating the specific phrase referred to by the Vatican:
It is very important to understand that the Church is not speaking about people who simply have same-sex attractions. She’s speaking about those who have several serious impairments:
  1. Actively gay
  2. Embrace or support the gay lifestyle/culture
  3. Deep seated homosexual tendencies (this means more than same-sex attractions. This is a person who identifies himself or herself as gay). When this becomes your identity, then there is a very serious problem here. Heterosexuals do not identify themselves as heterosexuals. They identify themselves as males and females. A person with same-sex attraction must be able to see himself as a whole person, not identify himself by his sexual attraction. Unless he can see himself as a whole person, he cannot relate to members of both genders in a healthy and appropriate way.
  4. Those who struggle to remain chaste. If this is a struggle for the individual, he or she is not a good candidate for either the priesthood or the religious life. Everyone struggles with temptations. The Church is not saying that a priest or religious must be someone who never struggles with temptations. That would be unrealistic. The Church is speaking about the person for whom sexual temptation are a cross.
As to the publicity of the attraction there is something to be considered here. Someone posted it above. If one is celibate and comfortable in one’s celibate state, why should one’s sexual feelings come out into the public forum? Whethere you have same-sex attraction or opposite-sex attractions, this is not a topic for public discussion.

The OP also asked about someone who had come out earlier in life and now wants to become a priest or a brother. That person is disqualified. The very act of coming out is a statement that says to the world that I embrace my sexual attractions, am proud of it, and I don’t care what the world thinks. Otherwise, the person would have exercised some discretion. The act of coming out reveals a deep seated homosexual orientation as well as some difficulties with discretion. Such a person is not a good candidate for either priesthood or religious life.

The Church still loves this person and wants him or her to remain a part of the Church. But the person has identified himself according to his sexual attractions, rather than as a whole man or whole woman. That’s the whole problem with the gay movement. When you identify yourself as gay, you’re making a public display of your sexuality as if that were the defining trait in your humanity and you’re throwing off the balance in your life, because you’re much more than just a sexual being. This is what the Church calls “deep seated”. It becomes an identity, rather than a sexual attraction. I explain it as a sexual orientation that is blown out of proportion.

It’s a very complex issue and there is no perfect answer. Even the guidelines that the Church provides for religious orders and diocesan seminaries, she’s very careful to point out that novice masters for religious and formators of seminarians must really watch what happens in the day to day life in community. In the end, there is not perfect answer that fits every individual. The same struggles with sexuality can be found in heterosexuals. What a formator is looking at is whether there is a struggle. If there is, then the perosn is not suited for this life or for the priesthood, unless the struggle disappears for at least three years, I believe is the number.
Deeply rooted homosexual tendencies refers to persons who are entrenched in that lifestyle, not to the possibility of having SSA. The reason that this was spelled out now is because it had never been done.

We always had a rule that said that we (religious and diocesan) could not admit heterosexual men who are sexually active. No one ever said anything about homosexuals, because these were things that people just did not talk about once upon a time. There was, if you will, a pruddish attitude about sex. You did not mention certain things.

Now the rules are clear for any man who wishes to enter a diocesan seminary or a religious novitiate, regardless of his sexual feelings. He must be celibate and not just recently celibate. The three-year rule was always in place for heterosexuals, except for those who had been married and were widowed.

The rules were not just for priests either. They applied to sisters, nuns and brothers too.
 
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