Rock Music

[TOP]

Reminds me of Black Sabbath preaching in After forever. Doesn’t seem to fit. Tim

 

[Matas]

  So, what is my point?  I'm trying to show that music itself DOES in fact contribute to certain moods, even if the listener is unaware that it has taken place.  That being said, we CAN potentially claim that an entire genre of music is opposed to God, if and only if, that genre is defined by the mood created by the music ITSELF, irrelevant to the lyrics.  Does such a genre exist?

That is the question.

Nicely said, Frank. Having lived it, I don’t need to rationalize it. Rock music from my past life doesn’t fit in with my new life as a devout Catholic. I look at all rock/pop/modern music with suspicion.

 

[mpb74]

I fully agree that some lyrics do not fit with the music being played

Before I forget, I fought the law goes I fought the law and the law won. He was paying for his crimes… The song actually starts out
" Busting rocks out in the hot sun, I fought the law and the law won"
My older sister wore out a rock album with a similar song “Mama Tried” by Merle Haggard. It was covered by this rock band. The catch line was " I turned 21 in prison doing life without parole" That prospect terrified me. When the group of kids I hung out with, We lived in a major US City with plenty of opportunity for trouble, began engaging in criminality that song always stuck in my head. Out of an original crew of appx 25 kids, only 3 of us had never been arrested by our 17th birthdays. I was one of them. Was that song the whole reason, no, but ot played a positive part.

We can say some rock music is evil, therefore rock music is evil and should be avoided. This establishes that some music is evil. The same logic can state, Some music is evil therefore all music should be avoided. Music is art and some of it is evil therefore all art ougth to be avoided.

I have never been at a satanic ritual, hopefully I will never be, but in so many movies and TV shows I’ve seen they seem to be singing hymn like songs to satan. These sound similar to what I often hear in church. It’s fair to assume the lyrics are quite different.Now given the nature of many of those who create these movies and shows I am quite sure more than a few of them are personally familiar with real satanic rituals, and are showing a relatively realistic reproduction of what goes on.

I am really enjoying this thread. I am just coming back to the church and expect to learn a lot from many on this board. I am learning positive things on this board, even from those I disagree on the present subject. My wife and I will be attending Mass this Saturday, We have to work Sunday. This will be the first time in a while. Unfortunately we will not be able to receive communion at this point, as we have not taken the steps neccesary to have our sins absolved. Hopefully in the future we will have clear conciences. Dan

PS, In the interest of keeping things light, I believe the only truly evil music is rap, and then only when it is being used to torture enemy combatants. That is a line I can not cross. LOL

 

[JFonseka]

Thanks for your comments, cue. I appreciate your taking the time to reply.

My point is such music isn’t inherently evil, or base, or wrong. Sure, it might lead someone to a distorted view of themselves or the world, but that isn’t cause to dub the material bad. But neither can one call such art inherently good … not even if it leads one closer to God.

Follow me: If I listen to a song about lost love, perhaps I might 1) turn inward and wallow in hopelessness at the misery of having lost my own love and as a result, drift further from the Lord … or I may 2) identify the emotional torment within me, build up a resolve to overcome such misery, and turn to my Lord for strength.

BOTH of those actions are just as likely to happen were we to give the same material (or art or song, say) to two different people. But NEITHER action appropriates the song itself as being inherently good or evil.

I agree with you, because I know what you mean, the love songs seem so nice, but it makes me sad because I think of relationship problems I have had and I do just that, wallow in misery, without moving on. I think it affects certain people though, some people who have not had lost love or now are married aren’t affected because their love is their with them, so the music isn’t bad, but it affects people who are in different situations

 

[mpb74]

A song about lost love can be a positive thing. It makes me think, Did I do something to screw up a loving relationship I wanted to continue. Wow, I did do this, that or the other thing to mess things up. Why did I do that. I will not do that in any future relationship. Or even, I will not do that in the marriage I am . Did I hurt this person I loved dearly. I will never do anything like that in the future because It will hurt an innocent person, whom I on top of being innocent I also love.
Hearing these songs often makes me think of how my selfishness hurt my partners and myself so often. It also reminds me of how a few women I loved destroyed me emotionally. But then I think how fortunate I am in that my marriage of 20 years is healthy and honest. My wife and I both know when we are hurting the other and step back. We would rather gnaw our fingers off than deeply wound one another. Dan

 

[JFonseka]

A song about lost love can be a positive thing. It makes me think, Did I do something to screw up a loving relationship I wanted to continue. Wow, I did do this, that or the other thing to mess things up. Why did I do that. I will not do that in any future relationship. Or even, I will not do that in the marriage I am . Did I hurt this person I loved dearly. I will never do anything like that in the future because It will hurt an innocent person, whom I on top of being innocent I also love.
Hearing these songs often makes me think of how my selfishness hurt my partners and myself so often. It also reminds me of how a few women I loved destroyed me emotionally. But then I think how fortunate I am in that my marriage of 20 years is healthy and honest. My wife and I both know when we are hurting the other and step back. We would rather gnaw our fingers off than deeply wound one another. Dan

This is also true, like I said above earlier that it affects different people in different ways and married couples are not affected with the same emotions that present in lost-love songs, however a single person may.

 

[Julianna]

Frank…I do agree that grunge rock is depressing. I guess I am old school rock and rock and roll and I didn’t get the angst filled lyrics in the music of that era. It was also at that same time I was teaching CCD to 7th graders. I did find that that U2 had a better message to counteract the message that grunge was giving. I don’t believe that grunge lyrics are an influence of satan…rather they are more the ramblings of a young man (Kurt Cobain for ex) who has not used his gift and talent in a positive manner. Alot of his inner negativity comes out in his songs. He could have done better. I also don’t hand out kudos to the devil for every ill that plagues mankind…as satan is vain (one of the reasons he was cast out)…so I don’t credit him with anything.

Found a nice peice of lyrics from an unusal place. Guess?

Why dont we listen to
The voices in our hearts
cause then I know we’d find
Were not so far apart
Everybodys got to be happy
Everyone should sing
For we know the joy of life
The peace that love can bring

I agree this is a great discussion and is a teachable moment. But you give satan far more credit than deserved.

 

[Alda]

I agree this is a great discussion and is a teachable moment. But you give satan far more credit than deserved.

I’ll admit I haven’t read the whole thread but just wanted to jump in because I agree with the above statement.

 

[cue]

This is also true, like I said above earlier that it affects different people in different ways and married couples are not affected with the same emotions that present in lost-love songs, however a single person may.

You are right on target. Different people will do different things with different music. That is why I insist that we cannot use what people do with the music as criteria for deciding if it is an occasion of sin or not. Instead, we have to see if there is anything that the music does to us, whether we know it or not. The examples above are about things that people do (wallowing in misery, not moving on, etc.). But is there something that the music does to us before we choose that action? The research indicates there is. It states that rock (or at least grunge rock) has a unique affect on people, a very different affect from what New Age or Classical music does. This includes stress, heart-rate, etc.–things we are probably not aware of.

 

[mpb74]

JFonseka, I agree that that pain in past relationships is lessened, in fact virtually non existent when in a healthy marriage based on unconditional love and respect.
However many single Catholics aspire to loving marriages and have a better chance of finding one if they are aware of the defects of character that ruined promising relationships.

Cue, are you stating that just the rythmns of rock music, sans lyrics, is what causes the occasion of sin? perhaps I missed that in my eagerness to assert my contentions. If that is your point, we have been discussing apples and oranges. That is my fault, I apologize.

Dan

 

[RenaissanceMare]

Now see, I find myself not listening to songs based on if their lyrcis are bashing God or religion. If they’re not, then it’s a matter of taste, or so I thought. Except for rap…which seems to be flowing over into lifestyle and quite frankly if I see one more white kid running around trying to look and sound like a gang banger I’m gonna barf.

I do agree that music stirs emotions, because that’s how I choose what to listen to. When I’m feeling down, nothing gets me smiling again like Weird Al. And when I’m feeling crabby, I tend to listen to things like the Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana. I never thought that the songs might be further causing my mood instead of helping to vent it out then go back to happy, as I’ve always felt it does. Since Nirvana’s lyrics aren’t blatantly blapshemous, I never thought it could be an occasion of sin…

So if a song makes you feel amourous, angry, vengeful, etc. you aren’t supposed to listen to it? What about songs that make you cry because they’re sad or because the lyrics just hit home with you? At one point is emotion evoked negative or positive? I’d like to hear some talk on that.

 

[FrankLawrence]

Since Nirvana’s lyrics aren’t blatantly blapshemous, I never thought it could be an occasion of sin…

So if a song makes you feel amourous, angry, vengeful, etc. you aren’t supposed to listen to it? What about songs that make you cry because they’re sad or because the lyrics just hit home with you? At one point is emotion evoked negative or positive? I’d like to hear some talk on that.

As for Nirvana not being blasphemous, “Stay Away,” certainly is. Not sure what the intent or meaning behind the song, “Lithium” is, but that MAY be blasphemous as well. The words, “I’ll kill you,” in that song don’t sound appropriate either.

As other posters said, different songs can evoke different emotions in different people. Also, we are not always aware of the impact that such lyrics are having on us.

Now, take traditional Irish drinking songs, for example. Now, if we don’t drink, we may think, “Well, I can listen to this all I want and as you can see, I’m staying sober so it isn’t effecting me.” Not necessarily. There are other subtle things that may be impacting you. For example, the song, “Whiskey In The Jar,” glamourizes stealing and sends a “We can’t trust women” message. “Finnigan’s Wake” has whiskey acting as an agent of what could be implied resurrection, which borders on blasphemy. “Captain Kelly’s Kitchen” a.k.a. “Courting In the Kitchen,” refers to love as “the devil’s own invention.” “Whiskey, you’re the devil,” despite the title lyrics says, “Whiskey you’re me darling drunk or sober,” so think of what the implications are if those two lyrics are combined.

On ths issue at hand, though, yes, even if the lyrics themselves are not bad, the mere music (irrelevant to the lyrics) can impact our moods. Studies show, from what I heard, that classical music calms babies down, or helps them when they sleep, or something like that.

 

[ishii]

I think it is safe to say that rock music is not inherently evil, but like a lot of things, (tv and movies, for example) it can be both good and bad. One thing I have not noticed in the discussion so far is a definition of rock. It is a huge genre that includes (unfortunately) the likes Marilyn Manson and other “shock” type performers as well as the likes of artists such as Bob Dylan and Elvis Presley. It can be represented in songs that are subversive (Imagine, by John Lennon) or beautiful, (Julia, by John Lennon). It can be nothing more than a catchy song about a girl ( Peggy Sue, by Buddy Holly) or it can be a serious song about a casualty of the rock lifestyle (Dark Side of the Moon). And everything in between. So you have to use your common sense in choosing what to listen to, just like you do with anything else. For me, rock music gives me a great deal of joy and pleasure. Unfortunately I have not noticed very much good rock music in recent years (with the exception of Coldplay). Good thing there was so much good rock music in the 50’s and 60’s. Ishii

 

[BobP123]

A song about lost love can be a positive thing.

How would this be different than reading a novel about lost love?

Is it about lyrics or is it the combination of the right pitches that is “positive”? Just curious.

 

[RenaissanceMare]

<<< As for Nirvana not being blasphemous, “Stay Away,” certainly is. Not sure what the intent or meaning behind the song, “Lithium” is, but that MAY be blasphemous as well. The words, “I’ll kill you,” in that song don’t sound appropriate either.

As other posters said, different songs can evoke different emotions in different people. Also, we are not always aware of the impact that such lyrics are having on us. >>>

Okay, I don’t think the final lyric of “Stay Away” is very nice at all, though it might mean “happy” and not what everyone else thinks, but I don’t think “Lithium” is blasphemous. I mean…I always saw the “light my candles in a daze/'cause I’ve found God” as a positive lyric, but that’s just me. I’m the kind of person that sees the glass half full.

I agree that some of Nirvana’s lyrics might be inappropriate, but it would be sad to say they all are useless. Google the lyrics to “All Apologies”, which I’ve found to be a comfort. Why? It’s a very depressing song. But sometimes just knowing another person has felt the same way you have is a comfort. Or is that not the effect it has on people?

I’m trying hard to turn my life over to Christ, and it’s no easy task for a control freak like myself. This thread sort of makes me wonder if I shouldn’t go through my CD collection and see what I’ve “outgrown”. Anyone else feel like that after reading this thread?

Though that creates a big feeling of conflict within me…because then there’s alot of other things I enjoy: horror movies, Stephen King novels, TV shows like Boston Legal and X-Files… At what point does it stop? When is entertainment JUST entertainment? Not something we’re basing our lives on, just something we listen to/watch/read for a little escape from reality and because it gives us enjoyment?

 

[mpb74]

I’m becoming a better Catholic, perhaps more slowly than I should. I too get a lot from many songs. As to knowing someone has felt the same way as you do, I try to remember there is nothing new under the sun. I am not so unique as to feel something that no one has ever felt before I felt it.
I wasn’t taught Catholic Catachism or theology, despite going to Catholic school. I did get a healthy concience there however. So I took what I believed was right from what I experienced. mostly that was the culture of my times. If and when the time comes to jettison some things, they will be history. Dan

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

hi i really like rock music and listen to it all the time, i was just wondering is it a sin to listen to it or does it go against the faith in any way ?

No, rock music is not inheritelly wrong so there is no problem in listening to it. If fact there are many Christian rock bands. The issue here is more that you should be careful what you are listening to. There is a lot of unchristian music especially when you move into the realm of metal. Many bands have strong ties to Satanism, occult and are anti-christian. They often reflect it in their dark lyrics. Take an example of many black metal bands! I guess you are asking about rock music in general and not extreme metal but even in this case I would think about what I’m listening to (and not everything that is not anti-christian is good).

 

[cue]

One thing I have not noticed in the discussion so far is a definition of rock. It is a huge genre that includes (unfortunately) the likes Marilyn Manson and other “shock” type performers as well as the likes of artists such as Bob Dylan and Elvis Presley.

That is a very good point. However, I do not think we can all agree on precisely what rock is. I think we know what we are generally speaking about. A discussion of genre may not be within the scope of this thread.
When I use rock, I mean what people associate in general with the rock genre. I am not set on speaking about every single song in a particular genre.

So if a song makes you feel amourous, angry, vengeful, etc. you aren’t supposed to listen to it? What about songs that make you cry because they’re sad or because the lyrics just hit home with you? At one point is emotion evoked negative or positive? I’d like to hear some talk on that.

If a kind of music makes you more hostile, it makes you more likely to sin–it makes it easier for you to blow at someone or something. If a situation makes it easier for you to sin, moves you toward sin, it is what we call an “occasion of sin.” The evocation of emotion is not bad in itself, but only if these makes it easier to sin. In regard to the study that indicated that grunge makes a person more hostile, it does not necessarily mean that they will be aware of feeling more hostile. Again, I do not understand this question fully, but I think I would say that music which manipulates emotion is not harmful (is not an occasion of sin) unless it manipulates those emotion into disorder (like hostile). It is tricky, though, because I am not using emotion in a general way. I should probably use disposition instead. Music can make us feel good (emotion) but dispose us to sin (disposition).
Let me give an example. A grunge song may have funny lyrics and an up-beat tempo. Now, while and after listening to the song, a person could feel happy or amused but that does not change, necessarily, that he is more disposed to sin.

 

[DocCormac]

Hi all,

As I worked for many years as an international photographer for the music industry, this seems an appropriate thread for my first post.

I saw many things backstage I’d never seen in my life until that point. A six-foot high, long overused bong that had its own road case. Underage drinking by the gallon. Nearly complete lack of dignity for the human body, usually female. Raging hormones by the truckload. Idolatry so thick you had to wipe your lenses free of the pheromones.

I thought it’d be easy to shrug off after a while. But it wasn’t, and that’s why I got out. It started to affect me, as the affliction of moral relativism always does.

Of the thousands of musicians I photographed in the 90s, I’d say maybe a dozen ran clean, from what I could tell. A band from Saint Louis called Stir impressed me for many years, just as another midwestern outfit called Cutters did. The photography I did for them was some of my favorite work – but these honest guys did not make it in the industry. You can guess why.

Cue is right on: in general, rock music disposes the listener to thoughts, feelings, and desires that are not in line with healthy Catholic living. How are the musicians themselves living? I’ve been there; I’ve seen it. And I am very wary.

GandalftheWhite is also right on: be careful about what you’re listening to, especially if it’s rock music. The mind has an incredible capacity to memorize, especially if the data is attached to a tune.

Forming a healthy conscience means taking the extra step of reading the lyrics and contemplating them before choosing to listen to them multiple times.

 

[mpb74]

I’ve learned a bit from this thread including from those I’ve disagreed with. Many offer a different point of view than mine, so I automatically think they are wrong. For I have an oversized ego and think I know it all. That situation is improving, thankfully. I am trying to become in athletic terms, coachable. I’ve never cared for any songs or artists that celebrate hedonism. I don’t like anything that glorifies violence, wanton sexuality, or anything that pulls the needle on my moral compass south of basic decency. Though I’ve not been religious in many years until recently I was gifted with a healthy conciense, and always known right from wrong. Not incorruptible, obviously, but not easily led either. One of my rare strengths. I see now that some can be easily led astray by music and lyrics that point them the way that “feels good”. I do however enjoy many slightly off color tunes, many from genre’s other than Rock & Roll. I think I’ve always liked them because they make me laugh. And laugh at myself. Someday they may cease to amuse me, but not because I don’t hear them, but because I change. I don’t there is a perfect Catholic, just millions seeking perfection and accepting the best human hope of progress. I guess that’s why we’re practicing catholics, not masters. Thanks Guys, you’ve helped me Dan