Rogue priest asks clergy to push Knights from parishes, exploit insurance policies [CNA]

[WillieWonka]

I’d be very interested in learning how an individual borrowing against a group insurance policy weakens the ability of the organization to donate money. The premiums are going to an insurance company, not the organization. There are various types of insurance (whole life, term life, etc) but in any case, the insurance company doesn’t let the organization donate the insurance company’s money.

 

[Sir_Knight]

CNA deliberately misquoted the priest. The source proves it. If you believe that the blog was changed then prove it.

We already have the facts! We have CNA falsely attributing a quote to that priest and the source which proves it. There’s no evidence that the blog was edited.

Evidence has been provided.

As I said, if you have evidence to support your assertion that Father Farrow edited his blog then feel free to provide the proof. Otherwise, you’re just grasping at straws.

Who is grasping at straws now?

 

[TMC]

I don’t know anything about Farrow, but I agree that if he advocated borrowing money without intending to repay that was wrong.

That said, the KoC’s focus on political issues and campaigns is the reason I don’t get involved with them. I am sure that, like most national organizations, different chapters have different agendas and practices. I thought about joining a few years ago, but when I talked with the Knights I knew it was all about raising money to advocate about the Pledge of Allegiance and for or against different laws. They also raise money for the local food bank and for the organization that help unwed and at risk pregnant women, etc, but I would just as soon give money directly to those groups. The activities they did themselves were mostly political.

I’m not saying that they shouldn’t do political things, but for years I thought they were a charitable service organization, but now I think of them as more of a political group. Has it always been that way?

 

[SamH]

I don’t know anything about Farrow, but I agree that if he advocated borrowing money without intending to repay that was wrong.

That said, the KoC’s focus on political issues and campaigns is the reason I don’t get involved with them. I am sure that, like most national organizations, different chapters have different agendas and practices. I thought about joining a few years ago, but when I talked with the Knights I knew it was all about raising money to advocate about the Pledge of Allegiance and for or against different laws. They also raise money for the local food bank and for the organization that help unwed and at risk pregnant women, etc, but I would just as soon give money directly to those groups. The activities they did themselves were mostly political.

I’m not saying that they shouldn’t do political things, but for years I thought they were a charitable service organization, but now I think of them as more of a political group. Has it always been that way?

And the problem?

 

[Aramis]

I don’t know anything about Farrow, but I agree that if he advocated borrowing money without intending to repay that was wrong.

That said, the KoC’s focus on political issues and campaigns is the reason I don’t get involved with them. I am sure that, like most national organizations, different chapters have different agendas and practices. I thought about joining a few years ago, but when I talked with the Knights I knew it was all about raising money to advocate about the Pledge of Allegiance and for or against different laws. They also raise money for the local food bank and for the organization that help unwed and at risk pregnant women, etc, but I would just as soon give money directly to those groups. The activities they did themselves were mostly political.

I’m not saying that they shouldn’t do political things, but for years I thought they were a charitable service organization, but now I think of them as more of a political group. Has it always been that way?

Actuall, Civil politics are forbidden in council. Exceptions being when the church calls for defending the faith.

And CA Prop 8 is the perfect exemplar: the bishops called for supporting it, and the KofC rallied behind it. Much the same happened in Alaska.

I don’t know where you’re at, but your local council has probably been sorely misrepresented.

 

[TMC]

And the problem?

I don’t have a problem with them doing it, but its not where I want to put my time and efforts.

Actuall, Civil politics are forbidden in council. Exceptions being when the church calls for defending the faith.

And CA Prop 8 is the perfect exemplar: the bishops called for supporting it, and the KofC rallied behind it. Much the same happened in Alaska.

I don’t know where you’re at, but your local council has probably been sorely misrepresented.

I’m not sure how civil politics is defined, and this was a few years ago, but this particular KofC chapter seemed to put a fair amount of time and effort into keeping “under God” in the pledge of allegiance, and it was my impression that similar things occupied a lot of their time. I’m not saying they were a bad group. I just didn’t realize that KofC was a politically active group and I was not looking to get involved in that kind of advocacy.

 

[godhavemercy]

I’d be very interested in learning how an individual borrowing against a group insurance policy weakens the ability of the organization to donate money. The premiums are going to an insurance company, not the organization. There are various types of insurance (whole life, term life, etc) but in any case, the insurance company doesn’t let the organization donate the insurance company’s money.

The cash value in the insurance policy belongs to the members and not the insurance company basically what he father is asking is to divest which is in my opinion is worse than borrowing against the insurance policy.

If you are divesting it means you are surrendering the insurance policy and taking the cash surrender value. if enough members do that it could bankrupt an insurance company, like for example the run on banks to take out the savings from their bank accounts.

Insurance companies like bank work on reserve . the keep a percentage to cover claims and surrender value and the balance is invested in lending or reasl estate etc… if they need to pay back large number of members and they do not have sufficient funds to do that they will have to sell assets at firesale price to cover.

I don’t think the KoC members will fall for this scheme

God Bless

 

[tm30]

CNA deliberately misquoted the priest. The source proves it. If you believe that the blog was changed then prove it.

My you’re awfully quiet all of a sudden…

 

[wcknight]

I really do not think we have much of a problem here. We have a renegade priest calling for folks to support a position that the Catholic Church condemns. There is nothing for us to be afraid of.

What we do have a problem with is the notion that we are somehow heavy into politics. That has never been the case. We are ONLY into supporting the moral positions set down by the Church, such as pro-life. We want to keep “under God” in the pledge of allegiance because it is the right thing to do, not because it is pussed by the far right or far left or whatever.

We are NOT a political organization in any way or form. No one is even allowed to bring up politics at all. We do however have a moral responsiblity to speak up for the unborn or for the poor or for the disenfranchised.

IF we appear to be a bit more conservative or right leaning, it is only because morality and the Catholic Church in particular, tends to lean that way. We have both Democrats and Republicans, but most importantly we have very staunch devout Catholics who are 100% pro-American.

IF you are avoiding the Knights because of politics then you are avoiding us for the wrong reason. Devout Catholics who join the knights always become better Catholics. The best knights are always great Catholics. You can not be a decent knight without first becoming a good Catholic.

IF you see us involved in politics at all, it is only because the Church thinks we should be involved. We don’t dabble in that arena unless we believe there is a moral imperative.

 

[TMC]

I really do not think we have much of a problem here. We have a renegade priest calling for folks to support a position that the Catholic Church condemns. There is nothing for us to be afraid of.

What we do have a problem with is the notion that we are somehow heavy into politics. That has never been the case. We are ONLY into supporting the moral positions set down by the Church, such as pro-life. We want to keep “under God” in the pledge of allegiance because it is the right thing to do, not because it is pussed by the far right or far left or whatever.

We are NOT a political organization in any way or form. No one is even allowed to bring up politics at all. We do however have a moral responsiblity to speak up for the unborn or for the poor or for the disenfranchised.

IF we appear to be a bit more conservative or right leaning, it is only because morality and the Catholic Church in particular, tends to lean that way. We have both Democrats and Republicans, but most importantly we have very staunch devout Catholics who are 100% pro-American.

IF you are avoiding the Knights because of politics then you are avoiding us for the wrong reason. Devout Catholics who join the knights always become better Catholics. The best knights are always great Catholics. You can not be a decent knight without first becoming a good Catholic.

IF you see us involved in politics at all, it is only because the Church thinks we should be involved. We don’t dabble in that arena unless we believe there is a moral imperative.

I guess I agree with everything you said, except for the part about “Under God” in the pledge. I don’t see that as a moral imperative or a Catholic issue, and I would rather see efforts and assets applied elsewhere.

That said, I don’t dispute that the Knights are good Catholics or that KofC is a good organization. I think that maybe the chapter I looked into was not a good fit for me. It certainly seemed political to me, but that was probably because they happened to be focusing on the pledge issue at the time, and that seems like a political issue to me. I am in a different parish now, so maybe its worth looking into again.

 

[rlg94086]

I’m not sure how civil politics is defined, and this was a few years ago, but this particular KofC chapter seemed to put a fair amount of time and effort into keeping “under God” in the pledge of allegiance, and it was my impression that similar things occupied a lot of their time. I’m not saying they were a bad group. I just didn’t realize that KofC was a politically active group and I was not looking to get involved in that kind of advocacy.

The KofC worked hard to get “under God” into the pledge, so it would make sense for us to work hard to keep “under God” in the pledge. The only reason it appears the knights are involved in a partisan political issue is that one of the major parties tends to be opposed to any mention of God.

Other than that, we are very active regarding life issues and supporting our parishes and priests.

 

[m134e5]

It is a shame that this priest is/was a chaplain at a Newman center (a Catholic ministry on university campuses). I know Newman centers aren’t exactly well-known for their fidelity to the Church (they actually have kind of a reputation for being pretty bad)…but they could be great- and that, perhaps, is the place where orthodoxy and reverence are needed the most- in the middle of a secular college, where modernism, consumerism, political correctness, and immoral behavior are often hailed as virtues.

It is a very serious sin to provide, under the guise of Catholicism, a heterodox church environment for people who are just starting to go their own way in life. At that time, perhaps more than ever, people need the Church as it is- not as some heterodox Catholics wish it would be.

 

[holy_moly]

Do you not know how the Internet works? What a page says at any given moment in time is not proof of what it said in the past.

Nowya seeit, nowya don’t?

 

[holy_moly]

kpeople: Ok folks, listen up. kpeople:

There is a simple way to verify this, which I have just done. Namely, by checking Google’s prior cache of the blog in question.

Here is how the blog reads at this moment in time:

1. Divest the full amount of your Knights of Columbus life insurance policy immediately. Take the check and invest the funds with an LGBT friendly fund. If every priest and K of C insurance policy holder were to do this, it would create a considerable capital drain on K of C and cripple their ability to write large checks to thwart LGBT legislation and ballot initiatives.
   **
   Here is how the blog appeared on Jul 1, 2009 13:38:17 GMT:
   **
2. Borrow the full amount against your Knights of Columbus life insurance policy immediately. Take the check and invest the funds with an LGBT friendly fund. Do not pay back the loan. If every priest and K of C insurance policy holder were to do this, it would create a considerable capital drain on K of C and cripple their ability to write large checks to thwart LGBT legislation and ballot initiatives.

You can access Google’s cache of the blog by visiting this link:

74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:fathergeofffarrow.blogspot.com/2009/06/boycott-knights-of-columbus.html

This is Google’s cache of fathergeofffarrow.blogspot.com/2009/06/boycott-knights-of-columbus.html. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Jul 1, 2009 13:38:17 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime.

CNA did NOT falsify the quotation from the blog; the blog was changed.

Carry on.

Impressive! :bowdown: