Role of the Temple

[majick275]

I think it wouldbe interesting to discuss the LDS view of the role of the Temple in their church today as compared to the role of the Jewish Temple in Jesus time.(preferably from LDS sources)

I would like to contrast this with the Catholic view that there is no need for modern Temples. (preferably from Catholic sources)

No attacks just informative discussion please.

 

[ForeverAdam]

majick275:

would like to contrast this with the Catholic view that there is no need for modern Temples. (preferably from Catholic sources)

We believe in having “temples” too. The argument of, “we don’t need a temple” against Mormonism is too Protestant in nature to be used by us. For example, in the dedication prayers for a Catholic Church it is called a “temple” and, of course, the Eastern Church to this day calls their church, “temples.” Mother Angelica calls her beautiful “Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament” a “temple” that is dedicated to the Divine Infant.

Basically, there is no difference between Catholic and LDS views of the need of a temple, generally speaking. Both of us believe that there are certain sacred rites (Holy Mass and the sacraments for us, Endowment for them) that are needed for our salvation. Both of us believe that certain building are “set apart”, hallowed, if you will, for the administration of these sacred rites. And neither of us believe that the presence of God is limited to the temple, we simply believe that the temple and its rituals are for our benefit unto eternal life.

In Christ,

Adam

 

[MEP]

I think one difference though is that Catholics don’t close off their sacred spaces to outsiders. We share our sacred rites with everyone in an evangelical way whereas Mormons have to “pass a test” essentially to get their recommend which gets them into a temple. Their “churches” are really more like meeting halls and the “chapel” is more of a lecture hall than a sacred space as we Catholics would understand it.

I think that’s where most of the confusion about potential differences between the two faiths come from. Catholics think (or should think at least) that their churches are sacred spaces and that the mass is one of their most sacred rites. But because we don’t guard it behind closed doors like the Mormons do with their temple rites (endowments, sealings, baptisms for the dead), there appears to be more difference than there really is.

The real difference is not in the temple but in their churches, where communion isn’t anywhere near as important to them as the Eucharist is to us.

 

[majick275]

Well, I equate Catholic (and LDS) chapels with synagogues of old. Places of worship and spiritual learning.

The Jewish Temples served a purpose that I think is no longer necessary in Catholic doctrine. That being the place of sacrifice for sin offerings. Catholic teaching that Jesus has taken care of this still requires a church but not a “temple” in the old testament sense.

I am quite interested in the LDS view of the Jewish Temple and their belief in how that became there temples of today.

I understand that cathedrals and churches are dedicated holy places where the real presence is expereienced in the eucharist, but I’m sure that LDS folks feel similar about their chapels.

Knowing the emphasis that LDS place on Temple worship I would like to see more of a comparison with the “original” Temple and from the Catholic side, I would like to learn more about why that specific type of Temple is no longer needed.

Sorry for not being clearer earlier but I’m still new here.

 

[MEP]

majick275:

I understand that cathedrals and churches are dedicated holy places where the real presence is expereienced in the eucharist, but I’m sure that LDS folks feel similar about their chapels.

That’s the thing though. LDS “churches” aren’t really churches in the sense that we Catholics understand the term. The church building is made up of many rooms, usually including a kitchen and gym, and a single large “chapel”. The majority of the church space is dedicated to what we would think of as a parish hall (the kind of place where we have coffee and doughnuts or the kinds of rooms where we have RCIA meetings). This building is used primarily for the same purposes that we use parish halls for – meetings, classes and social gatherings.

The chapel is used for meetings as well, not just the sacrament meeting but usually also a “priesthood” meeting and other meetings. The sacrament meeting that they have really isn’t comparable to a Catholic mass either. The actual sacrament is really a minor aspect of the service, most of it involves general announcements, the releasing and assigning of members from/to their callings and several “talks” delivered by members of the congregation. The mormon services that I’ve attended (more than a few) have all felt very similar to a board meeting or a professional conference and not very much like a religious experience at all (not trying to insult anyone here, just saying that it’s not what I’m used to).

The rest of the time, the church is used solely for meetings and classes. It’s more like a Knights of Columbus hall or a Parochial School than it is a church as Catholics would understand it. And all the mormons I know and am friends with essentially think of it that way, as a focus for their community rather than as a sacred space. It’s a meeting hall and not a church, even though they use the terms “church” and “chapel” to describe it.

Knowing the emphasis that LDS place on Temple worship I would like to see more of a comparison with the “original” Temple and from the Catholic side, I would like to learn more about why that specific type of Temple is no longer needed.

The Mormon temple really doesn’t compare with the Jewish temple. Jewish temples were a place for offering holocausts and as far as I know, Mormons don’t burn sacrifices in their temples. They do perform several other rituals though that are pretty unique to their faith.

1. Sealing - This is usually done in the form of bonded marriage but families can be sealed together as well (and perhaps others that I’m not aware of). This basically means that those who are sealed in the temple ceremony are bound together for all eternity. So, for example, a man and wife sealed in the temple will be married in heaven as well as on Earth.
2. Baptisms for the Dead - This is where Mormons baptize those members of their family that did not have the opportunity to be baptized in life. Basically, each mormon is expected at some time to be baptized in the temple as a sort of proxy for one of the deceased. Since baptism is required to enter paradise, this allows those who could not receive a mormon baptism a chance to get into heaven as long as they lived a good life (and accept the LDS gospel after their death while still in “prison” – sort of like our purgatory but that’s really a bad analogy).
3. Endowments - I’m not sure if this a temple ceremony or part of being allowed into the temple in the first place. From what I understand, it basically entails making a “covenant” with God – sort of a fair exchange. The endowed promises to do something or improve their way of life in some way in exchange for a blessing. I could be totally wrong about this part and I probably am so I do hope that one of the mormons on this boards corrects my misunderstandings (again, I mean no offense if anything I’ve said is inaccurate).

There’s really nothing in the Mormon temple that resembles ancient Jewish temples (perhaps architecture or symbols, but I have no idea since I’ve never been in one). There was no baptism in Jewish temples and really no “endowments”. Most of the Mormon temple ceremonies borrow heavily from Masonic ritual so it might be more accurate to compare them to a Masonic lodge than to a Jewish temple.

We don’t have temples like the Mormons have because we don’t believe in the baptism of the dead. We don’t believe in endowments (though some of our devotional rites seem to serve a similar purpose, but that may be due to my misunderstandings of endowments) and we don’t practice the rites of sealing like Mormons do. Basically, there’s nothing about a Mormon temple that is the same as a Jewish temple and we don’t have something similar as Catholics because until Joseph Smith came around, no one else did either.

 

[honeybear]

MEP:

That’s the thing though. LDS “churches” aren’t really churches in the sense that we Catholics understand the term. The church building is made up of many rooms, usually including a kitchen and gym, and a single large “chapel”. The majority of the church space is dedicated to what we would think of as a parish hall (the kind of place where we have coffee and doughnuts or the kinds of rooms where we have RCIA meetings). This building is used primarily for the same purposes that we use parish halls for – meetings, classes and social gatherings.

The chapel is used for meetings as well, not just the sacrament meeting but usually also a “priesthood” meeting and other meetings. The sacrament meeting that they have really isn’t comparable to a Catholic mass either. The actual sacrament is really a minor aspect of the service, most of it involves general announcements, the releasing and assigning of members from/to their callings and several “talks” delivered by members of the congregation. The mormon services that I’ve attended (more than a few) have all felt very similar to a board meeting or a professional conference and not very much like a religious experience at all (not trying to insult anyone here, just saying that it’s not what I’m used to).

The rest of the time, the church is used solely for meetings and classes. It’s more like a Knights of Columbus hall or a Parochial School than it is a church as Catholics would understand it. And all the mormons I know and am friends with essentially think of it that way, as a focus for their community rather than as a sacred space. It’s a meeting hall and not a church, even though they use the terms “church” and “chapel” to describe it.

The Mormon temple really doesn’t compare with the Jewish temple. Jewish temples were a place for offering holocausts and as far as I know, Mormons don’t burn sacrifices in their temples. They do perform several other rituals though that are pretty unique to their faith.

1. Sealing - This is usually done in the form of bonded marriage but families can be sealed together as well (and perhaps others that I’m not aware of). This basically means that those who are sealed in the temple ceremony are bound together for all eternity. So, for example, a man and wife sealed in the temple will be married in heaven as well as on Earth.
2. Baptisms for the Dead - This is where Mormons baptize those members of their family that did not have the opportunity to be baptized in life. Basically, each mormon is expected at some time to be baptized in the temple as a sort of proxy for one of the deceased. Since baptism is required to enter paradise, this allows those who could not receive a mormon baptism a chance to get into heaven as long as they lived a good life (and accept the LDS gospel after their death while still in “prison” – sort of like our purgatory but that’s really a bad analogy).
3. Endowments - I’m not sure if this a temple ceremony or part of being allowed into the temple in the first place. From what I understand, it basically entails making a “covenant” with God – sort of a fair exchange. The endowed promises to do something or improve their way of life in some way in exchange for a blessing. I could be totally wrong about this part and I probably am so I do hope that one of the mormons on this boards corrects my misunderstandings (again, I mean no offense if anything I’ve said is inaccurate).

There’s really nothing in the Mormon temple that resembles ancient Jewish temples (perhaps architecture or symbols, but I have no idea since I’ve never been in one). There was no baptism in Jewish temples and really no “endowments”. Most of the Mormon temple ceremonies borrow heavily from Masonic ritual so it might be more accurate to compare them to a Masonic lodge than to a Jewish temple.

We don’t have temples like the Mormons have because we don’t believe in the baptism of the dead. We don’t believe in endowments (though some of our devotional rites seem to serve a similar purpose, but that may be due to my misunderstandings of endowments) and we don’t practice the rites of sealing like Mormons do. Basically, there’s nothing about a Mormon temple that is the same as a Jewish temple and we don’t have something similar as Catholics because until Joseph Smith came around, no one else did either.

Curious. Your description of the LDS temple is very similar to the Kingdom Hall down the street from me.

 

[Chris-WA]

majick275:

I think it wouldbe interesting to discuss the LDS view of the role of the Temple in their church today as compared to the role of the Jewish Temple in Jesus time.(preferably from LDS sources)

I would like to contrast this with the Catholic view that there is no need for modern Temples. (preferably from Catholic sources)

No attacks just informative discussion please.

I also have often wondered about this very subject and I’m glad to see you started this thread. In speaking with LDS members, they point to the importance of the Jerusalem temple in the bible as support for the necessity of temples today. Yet I fail to see many similarities between the Jerusalem temple and LDS temples. They seem to be very different in most aspects–their purpose, function, structure, etc.

The Jerusalem temple was the very center of society for ancient Israel. It was the religious, politcial, and financial center. I’ve heard it described as ancient Israel’s Vatican, Washington DC, and Wallstreet all in rolled into one. Above all other things, what made it so special was the holy of holies, the room wherein God himself dwelled in the form of the Shekinah (sp?) glory cloud. This room was so sacred that only the high priest could enter once a year, and had a rope tied around his leg so others could pull out his body in case he died inside.

One primary function of the temple was to offer animal sacrifices at the alter in atonement for sins and to cleanse Israel’s addiction to the pagan gods of Egypt. When Christ passed on the cross, the veil separating the holy of holies tore down the middle, thus removing the separation of God from his people. Animal sacrifices were no longer required, because Christ’s sacrifice fully accomplished what the animal sacrfices could not.

Now compare this with modern day LDS temples. To my understanding, there is no holy of holies or glory cloud dwelling within. There are no sacrfices because none are needed. So it seems to me that Christ’s death and resurrection removed the primary purpose of the temple, which may be one reason why no Christians attempted to rebuild one after the Jerusalem temple was destroyed by the Romans.

Of course, the ancient temple was also used for other reasons, but all seem to pale in importance compared to what I described above. I don’t think the ancient temple rituals are a mystery because the Jews have preserved that history.

 

[MEP]

honeybear:

Curious. Your description of the LDS temple is very similar to the Kingdom Hall down the street from me.

Perhaps you already got this and I’m wasting my breath with clarification, but it’s important to note that “church” and “temple” are not the same thing in LDS. My description of their churches might remind you of the Kingdom Hall, but those are not the sacred spaces that Mormons consider their temples.

Mormon temples are usually built nowhere near their churches (the meeting hall-like place I described). The temples also aren’t open on Sunday, and no one is allowed to go to them except during the other days of the week.

I just want to make sure that people understand I’m describing two very different things in my earlier posts. The chapel is inside the church. And the temple is usually nowhere near that building (in fact LDS temples are pretty rare compared to stake centers and churches (I forgot what they actually call their churches… Ward halls or something? I don’t remember)).

 

[Casen]

There are indeed some similarities between temple and tabernacle practices in ancient Israel and modern LDS temples but also many differences. LDS believe in modern revelation and the Doctrine and Covenants, a compilation of modern revelations, tells us there are certain things that were kept hidden from the world until the “Dispensation of the Fulness of Times” which we believe began with Joseph Smith’s first vision. In other words, LDS may point to the importance of the ancient temple in Jerusalem as evidence that temples are important but we don’t believe modern temple practices must exactly duplicate those in ancient Israel.

BTW – LDS churches (where members meet on Sunday and during the week for activities) are officially called Meeting Houses.

 

[majick275]

Casen,
I don’t disagree with you there, but my original thought for this thread was more the “role” of the Temple rather than the practices. I understand that you are limited in your ability to discuss specific practices(and I respect that) so I was hoping to look more at the place within jewish societ that the temple held as compared to the modern temples.

From the Catholic side I view the Jewish Temple as a symbol of Gods presence where you had to go to atone for sins. This is no longer necessary (as evidenced by the rending of the vail duirng the crucifiction) since Jesus atoned for All sins and had brought the presence of God to all people. (the Holy Spirit, the real presence of the Eucharist) Perhaps some of the Catholic “scholars” here can elaborate. (or correct me if needed)

 

[Casen]

The temple in ancient Israel was the center of the community and its construction was considered the crowning achievement of a King. There were also synagogues in ancient Israel where the word of God was preached and studied but the temple was something separate, unique and considered special. For King Solomon the temple overshadowed all of his other accomplishments and the plans for the temple were revealed to King Solomon by God. In the Israelite society it was a symbol of stability and unity within the community and the practices therein were considered so essential to the community that when people could not realistically visit the temple because of distance there were other temples built such as at Leontopolis (Egypt), and Arad and Elephantine. The destruction of the temple was symbolic of the dissolution of the community and a separation from God.

The Israelite temple built by Solomon was directionally oriented with the main entrance facing East (symbolic of the coming of the Messiah) and the site of its construction was considered holy, built upon Mount Moriah, the very spot where Abraham nearly sacrificed his son Isaac, symbolic of the coming sacrifice God the Father would make with His Son.

Access to the Israelite temple was restricted to certain individuals considered pure. Israelite temples were divided into three sections, each representing a progressively higher state, reaching toward God. The central focus of the temple was the offering of a sacrifice; preferably a lamb if affordable but pigeons were acceptable sacrifices for the poor and the sacrifice was symbolic of the coming atonement. The role of the temple was to unify ancient Israel in the worship of the Great Jehovah.

LDS have meeting houses just as Jews have synagogues and just as the temple in ancient Israel was separate and had a different purpose so it is with LDS temples. Early church members built temples at great sacrifice, as did ancient Israel. For the construction of the Kirtland temple, the first Mormon temple, women in the church crushed their china so it could be added to the stucco to make it “glisten” in the sun. If you’ve ever seen one of the early pioneer temples such as the Saint George, Manti, or Logan temples they are remarkable structures considering the poverty of the early members. The Salt Lake temple was built of solid granite blocks (16 foot thick foundation, 9 foot thick walls at the base tapering to six feet at the top) that had to be hauled by oxen one block at a time 15 miles down a canyon and across the valley to the building site. It cost 3.5 million to build the Salt Lake temple and 40 years to complete. Like the temple of Solomon early LDS temples were considered a crowning achievement for the society and were a symbol of sacrifice, stability, and unity within the society. Modern LDS temple practices differ from ancient Israel practices and animal sacrifices are obviously not performed because we believe the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the ultimate sacrifice ended the practice, but the central focus of LDS temple practices is the atonement, just as it was in ancient Israel. The role of the temple is to bring members closer to God and to unify the society of members in worshipping Jesus Chirst.

 

[majick275]

Very interesting post Casen. I will think on this some before adding my own ideas. Thank you.

 

[MEP]

Casen:

Access to the Israelite temple was restricted to certain individuals considered pure. Israelite temples were divided into three sections, each representing a progressively higher state, reaching toward God.

I think this has always been one of my major hangups with the Mormon church. The Hebrews did this, and now Mormons do to. Access to the temple is restricted only to those who have cleansed themselves to a certain degree. And yet, the temple is supposed to be where people can get closest to God in this life.

Matthew 9:10-13 (NAB)
While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” He heard this and said, “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. Go and learn the meaning of the words, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”

The whole purpose of going toward God in this life is to seek atonement, you said yourself the primary purpose of visiting a Mormon temple is atonement. Why deny that to the people who need it most?

It would seem to me that the Hebrew notion of only allowing the more righteous members of the community into certain spaces was antithetic to what Christ taught in his ministry on Earth. Not just from the above scripture example either – the message of inclusion of all people who come willingly to God is found throughout the Gospels and Acts. I never understood the Mormon arguments for keeping the temple exclusive. We have our most sacred rites out in the open. Our holy spaces are open to all. We separate our sacred spaces from our parish halls, but we don’t separate them from the children of God.

 

[Casen]

MEP:

The whole purpose of going toward God in this life is to seek atonement, you said yourself the primary purpose of visiting a Mormon temple is atonement. Why deny that to the people who need it most?

The Hebrews excluded certain people from the temple because of instruction from Jehovah. Since we as Christins accept the Old Testament as scripture we must ask ourselves why God would do such a thing.

While it is obviously true that Christ invites everyone to come to Him there is also the doctrine of doctrinal and spiritual progression in the scriptures, *line upon line, here a little and there a little * (Isaiah 28:10). Christ spoke in parables and told his disciples, *it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given * (Matt 13:13).

LDS will accept anyone into their temples but preparation and obedience at a certain level is expected first. Paying a full tithing (10%) for example is a measure of ones commitment to the gospel and a testimony of the atonement is a good measure of whether you are ready to learn more . The idea is to feed members the doctrinal milk to a certain level before they attempt to consume the meat. Paul said, I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. (1 Corinthians 3:2)

There is some interesting evidence that esoteric teachings were a part of early Christianity and there is even evidence that Christ himself instituted such teachings, perhaps during the period between the resurrection and ascension (my personal opinion); a period where the Bible says very little. Anyway, we could discuss the topic of esoteric teachings in more detail if you would like. The point is that temples are the best place to disseminate such teachings.

 

[majick275]

Here is the Catholic view (as I see it) described in the Biblical Theology Terms addendum to the NAB.

“The Temple at Jerusalem was the place to which people went to worship and praise God (Ps 42:3). In teh New Testament, Jesus likens his body to a Temple (Jn 2:19.) At his death the veil of the temple was torn, thus indicating that the temple was no longer a symbol of God’s presence. The body of Jesus, the new temple (Jn 10:17), present in the Eucharist, will be present in many places throughout the world until the end of time. Since the body of Christ is the Church, she too has the spiritual qualities of a temple (1 Cor 3:10-17), and her members are temples of the Holy soirit (1 Cor 6:19).”
I see the Jews going to actually atone for their sins, NOT “focus on the atonement”. (I realize that is a very fine distinction)

I also think that the LDS temple today does not focus on atonement to anywhere near the level of the old testament vesion. (this is difficult to debate here due to necessary propriety of not revealing specific details of temple ceremony)

I think that you will find many differences in who was alowed in the temple (and what parts) if you compare the two and I still feel a litle "creeped out that the first thing you encounter in most LDS temples today is a cash register. (either beehive clothing sales at the outer door or the clothing rentals inside; also the cafaterias that charge a bit much to be considered just enough to cover actual expenses.)

I think Jesus replaced the old testament temple with himself and that the ordinances performed in modern LDS temples were never perormed of old and are at best irrelevant to salvation/exaltation else we would find much more of them in scripture. (especially BoM with it’s alleged “fullness of the Gospel”)

 

[flameburns623]

majick275:

I think it wouldbe interesting to discuss the LDS view of the role of the Temple in their church today as compared to the role of the Jewish Temple in Jesus time.(preferably from LDS sources)

I would like to contrast this with the Catholic view that there is no need for modern Temples. (preferably from Catholic sources)

No attacks just informative discussion please.

Boyd K. Packer wrote a book well worth knowing about on the topic of the LDS Temples I will quote a couple of passages from a booklet based upon this. The bibliographical information follows:

The Holy Temple, by Boyd K. Packer, Bookcraft, 1980. Citations used here based upon a booket copyright 1982 by Intellectual Reserve,Inc.
page 2:

We (Mormons) do not discuss the temple ordinances outside the temples. It was never intended that the knowldege of these temple cermonies would be limited to a select few who would be obligated to ensure that others never learn of them. It is quite the opposite in fact. With great effort we urge every soul to qualify and prepare for the temple experience. Those who have been to the temple have been taught an ideal: someday every living soul and every soul who has ever lived shall have the opportunity to hear the gospel and to accept or reject what the temple offers . . . The ordinances and ceremonies of the temple are simple. They are beautiful. They are sacred. They are kept confidential lest they be given to those who are unprepared. Curiosity is not a preparation. Deep interest itself is not a preparation. Preparation for the ordinances includes preliminary steps: faith, repentance, baptism, confirmation, worthiness, a maturity and dignity worthy of one who come invited as a guest into the house of the Lord.

pages 5-6:

Before going to the temple for the first time, or even after many times, it may help you to realize that the teaching of the temple is done in a symbolic fashion. The Lord, the Master teacher gave much of His instruction in this way . . . The late Dr. John D. Widtsoe of the Quorom of the Twelve . . . said on one occaision:

The temple ordinances encompas the whole plan of salvation as taught from time to time by the leaders of the Church and elucidate matters difficult of understanding. There is no warping or twising in fitting the temple teachings into the great plan of salvation. The philosophical completeness of the endowment is one of the great arguments for the veracity of the templie ordinances . . . The Endowment and the temple work . . . fall clearly into four distinct parts . . . I doubt that the Prophet Joseph Smith, unlearned and untrained in logic, could of himself made the thing so logically complete.

Pages 20-21:

If we would understand both the history and the doctrine of temple work we must understand what the sealing power is. We must envision, at least to a degree, why the keys of authority to employ the sealing power are crucial–crucial not just to the ordinance work of the temple but to all ordinance work in all the Church throughout the world . . . .We use the word keys in a sympolic way. Here the keys of priesthood authority represent the limits of the power extende from beyond the veil to mortal man to act in the name of God upon the Earth . . . The keys of the sealing power are synonymous with the keys of the everlasting priesthood.

Hopefully this contributes somewhat to the conversation. Copying all of this is laborious and one might want to seek out the book cited in a library or from the publisher for more information. James E. Talmage also wrote a book on the Mormon temple ordinances.

 

[majick275]

Thank you. I have Packers book on the temple but you seem to have catured the essence in your post.

 

[Casen]

majick275:

I think that you will find many differences in who was alowed in the temple (and what parts) if you compare the two and I still feel a litle "creeped out that the first thing you encounter in most LDS temples today is a cash register. (either beehive clothing sales at the outer door or the clothing rentals inside; also the cafaterias that charge a bit much to be considered just enough to cover actual expenses.)

I can appreciate the Catholic argument that the temple is no longer necessary since Christ’s atonement and we could certainly discuss the topic but the nitpick over cafeteria pricing and clothing rentals is pretty lame and doesn’t contribute to the discussion. The last time I was at the SL temple I had a roast beef dinner for about $3.50. Are you suggesting that is too much? Is the church gouging temple patrons? When I forgot my white pants they charged me $1.10 for a rental pair as I recall. Too much for you??

 

[BJ_Colbert]

MEP:

I think this has always been one of my major hangups with the Mormon church. The Hebrews did this, and now Mormons do to. Access to the temple is restricted only to those who have cleansed themselves to a certain degree. And yet, the

It would seem to me that the Hebrew notion of only allowing the more righteous members of the community into certain spaces was antithetic to what Christ taught in his ministry on Earth. Not just from the above scripture example either – the message of inclusion of all people who come willingly to God is found throughout the Gospels and Acts. I never understood the Mormon arguments for keeping the temple exclusive. We have our most sacred rites out in the open. Our holy spaces are open to all. We separate our sacred spaces from our parish halls, but we don’t separate them from the children of God.

I guess it is similar as it was when I went to the Vatican, I was not allowed into the inner areas to meet the Pope, because I was not one of those privey to this area of the Vatican. There were many places off limits to just average people off the street. It is the same in our Temples, it takes special preparation and commitment, and the average sightseer off the street is not ready to make that kind of commitment and would not understand the ceremony. It has taken me many years to prepare and fully understand the Temple endowments and I still must attend often to stay prepared for Temple attendence.
As far as money changing, the only cash register is not at the entrance of the Temple, that is where they check the recommend, and welcome the Temple attendees and direct them to the proper area for the session they are attending. It is only in the clothing area where those who do not have their own temple clothing may rent the clothing they need for the cost of the dry cleaning. The entire outfit of clothing which includes shoes and stockings is $4.00. I consider that reasonable. I have never eaten in the Cafeteria, but I know it is incredibly inexpensive and the quality of the food is superb.
Also since Temples are not open on Sunday, this taking of money is not done on the Sabbath.
I was just as shocked (as you were about clothing rental), when the Catholic parish my husband attends, had a carnival outside in the parking lot on Sunday right after mass, and also advertised their Bingo games at the pulpit in the Church. Do you know how many elderly women are addicted to this gambling and spend their entire social security check for this pastime? The Catholic church is raking it in to the detirment of the elderly and poor.
I think this desecration of the Sabbath day is much more outrageous than renting Temple clothes in the dressing area of the LDS Temple, for a fee to cover the cleaning.
It is amazing the things that shock Catholics when they are not bothered in the least by Carnivals on the Sabbath and the dress code of the parishners, which is not at all respectful of the holy place they are attending, and the Lord, they are worshipping. The dress of the mass attendees is also shocking to me. They come in all manner of dress, from cutoffs to work out and jogging clothes. My husband said he is also shocked by this, and that in the past people dressed in their best clothes to worship God.
Just another example of how things are changed by man, from the original ways the Church was established.
Also, to answer MEP, our Sacrament is every bit as ,and maybe more important as your Eucharist. The only difference is that we are reconfirming our commitment to God and following his commandments, and also renewing our baptismal covenant, with repentance from our weekly sins. We are remembering Jesus Christ and His Body and Blood which He sacrificed for us.
The main difference I see in your Eucharist and our Sacrament is that you believe you are actually eating flesh and blood. We believe the Sacrament represents His flesh and blood. In seriousness and importance it is the same.
The problem here is that we do not understand each other’s beliefs and therefore take offense at the things we do not understand. I do not understand Bingo(never played it for money)and I do not understand Carnivals on Sunday after Church. That is not to say they are wrong for you, but for me they are shocking.
No matter how fervently we explain our beliefs, you as Catholics will never understand the true concept, and it will remain a mystery to you.
We on the other hand feel the same about some of your beliefs, they are difficult to understand, and some of our questions are just swept away with explanations such as “It is a Mystery and we are not supposed to understand”
I appreciate all of the attempts to explain Catholic principles and practices, and I really have learned a great deal that I did not know before. Thank you for trying.
BJ

 

[majick275]

Casen:

I can appreciate the Catholic argument that the temple is no longer necessary since Christ’s atonement and we could certainly discuss the topic but the nitpick over cafeteria pricing and clothing rentals is pretty lame and doesn’t contribute to the discussion. The last time I was at the SL temple I had a roast beef dinner for about $3.50. Are you suggesting that is too much? Is the church gouging temple patrons? When I forgot my white pants they charged me $1.10 for a rental pair as I recall. Too much for you??

More the principal than anything. So yes too much for me. I just find it inappropriate (based on what Jesus did) for this type of commerce to be in a temple. I don’t want this to detract from the main discussion though.