Roman Catholic Church = "Christ's One Church." Do you mean to exclude all other Christians by saying this?

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The label “Christ’s One Church for the salvation of the world” is often attached to the Church of Rome by Roman Catholics. I will ask this as directly as I possibly can: Do you, like the current Pope, claim that all Christians outside the Church of Rome are not part of Christ’s church and consequently do not have the “means of salvation?”

Here’s his link. msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/
 
In the abstract, yes. Heretics have separated themselves from the unity of the Church and are therefore cut off from the Body of Christ and cannot be saved.

However, to be a heretic, one must deny certain truths of the faith in a spirit of obstinancy. Through Baptism we are born into that one Body. So Baptized non-Catholics, if they be of good will and are solicitous of the truth, then they are not cut off. St. Augustine explains:

“Those are by no means to be accounted heretics who do not defend their false and perverse opinions with pertinacious animosity especially when their error is not the fruit of audacious presumption but has been communicated to them by seduced and lapsed parents, and when they are seeking the truth with cautious solicitude and ready to be corrected.”

On the practical level these days, this is how the Church treates separated Christians–not charging them with the sin of separation of their forefathers that founded their communities, but nevertheless urging them to fulfill their call and enter fully into unity with Church.
 
Salvation is a gift from God. Men are not fit to justify the worthiness of their neighbour.
 
luda_111 said:
Salvation is a gift from God. Men are not fit to justify the worthiness of their neighbour.
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Nobody is judging an individuals “worthiness” but their religion. I can say wicca is a religion from satan but I cannot go so far as to condemn anyone’s soul since only God knows if someone interiorly repents before they die. The same with protestantism, islam, hinduism and every other false religion.
 
buffalo said:
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of truth

If you find yourself in heaven, you will be Catholic, an it will have been through the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that Christ founded for this very reason.
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I would never think of assuming I know what God will do. I believe that the true and original church of God is the Catholic Church, but I would not presume to be so certain as to claim that ONLY Catholics will be allowed into Heaven. I don’t believe that God would condemn a faithful Methodist to Hell because they are not Catholic.
 
tr1strev said:
I would never think of assuming I know what God will do. I believe that the true and original church of God is the Catholic Church, but I would not presume to be so certain as to claim that ONLY Catholics will be allowed into Heaven. I don’t believe that God would condemn a faithful Methodist to Hell because they are not Catholic.
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Read it close. Think about it.
 
mmmcounts said:
The label “Christ’s One Church for the salvation of the world” is often attached to the Church of Rome by Roman Catholics. I will ask this as directly as I possibly can: Do you, like the current Pope, claim that all Christians outside the Church of Rome are not part of Christ’s church and consequently do not have the “means of salvation?”

Here’s his link. msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/
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Hi

Here is what the Church teaches in her Catechism …

*Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:

838 “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.” With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.” *
 
tr1strev said:
I would never think of assuming I know what God will do. I believe that the true and original church of God is the Catholic Church, but I would not presume to be so certain as to claim that ONLY Catholics will be allowed into Heaven. I don’t believe that God would condemn a faithful Methodist to Hell because they are not Catholic.
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I’m sure that’s perfectly fine for whatever religion you belong to, but Catholics believe that the Church’s dogma is Divinely revealed, and that the Church doesn’t err when it definitively proposes something for belief by all the faithful. Because of this, we can know that God does not raise to heaven those who separate themselves from the Church in an obstinate way or who culpably fail to enter it.

*“The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation” *- Mortalium Animos, Pope Pius XI
 
Dauphin said:
I’m sure that’s perfectly fine for whatever religion you belong to, but Catholics believe that the Church’s dogma is Divinely revealed, and that the Church doesn’t err when it definitively proposes something for belief by all the faithful. Because of this, we can know that God does not raise to heaven those who separate themselves from the Church in an obstinate way or who culpably fail to enter it.
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Very precise and true. 👍 Good post.
 
tr1strev said:
I would never think of assuming I know what God will do. I believe that the true and original church of God is the Catholic Church, but I would not presume to be so certain as to claim that ONLY Catholics will be allowed into Heaven. I don’t believe that God would condemn a faithful Methodist to Hell because they are not Catholic.
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You don’t have to know the mind of God, you just have to follow what has been revealed by God to his Church. What has been revealed is that the ordinary way to eternal salvation is through Baptism, the Sacraments, and following the successors to the Apostles as Jesus instructed. God, of course, does not have to follow the rules. 😉 In his mercy, he may bring many more to heaven but it would be in spite of the “rules” not because of them.
 
Dauphin said:
I’m sure that’s perfectly fine for whatever religion you belong to,

I am Catholic as I’m sure you noticed, your sarcastic response notwithstanding. You do not and cannot know what God will do with each soul that comes to him. Don’t pretend that you do.
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tr1strev said:
Dauphin;4937428:
I’m sure that’s perfectly fine for whatever religion you belong to,

I am Catholic as I’m sure you noticed, your sarcastic response notwithstanding. You do not and cannot know what God will do with each soul that comes to him. Don’t pretend that you do.
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This is a strawman argument. No one is claiming to know the soul of each person, only what the Catholic Church teaches dogmatically. It’s certainly possible that a non-Catholic would invisibly unite themselves the the Church before death and assent to Catholic doctrine, but this doesn’t prevent us from proclaiming what the Church teaches. There is no salvation nor remission of sins outside of the the Church; it is the only ark of salvation.

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino

“Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.” - Pope St. Gregory the Great, Moralia
*
“Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control.”* - Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quidem
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I am surprised that none of you have mentioned the all-important document, Dominus Iesus, written by the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger when he was Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. The document says, in part, that:
in connection with the unicity and universality of the salvific mediation of Jesus Christ, the unicity of the Church founded by him must be firmly believed as a truth of Catholic faith. Just as there is one Christ, so there exists a single body of Christ, a single Bride of Christ: a single Catholic and apostolic Church (51). Furthermore, the promises of the Lord that he would not abandon his Church (cf. Mt 16:18; 28:20) and that he would guide her by his Spirit (cf. Jn 16:13) mean, according to Catholic faith, that the unicity and the unity of the Church, like everything that belongs to the Church’s integrity, will never be lacking (52).
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The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity rooted in the apostolic succession (53) between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: ‘This is the single Church of Christ… which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt 28:18ff.), erected for all ages as the pillar and mainstay of the truth’ (1 Tim 3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him (54). With the expression subsistit in, the Second Vatican Council sought to harmonize two doctrinal statements: on the one hand, that the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth (55), that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church (56). But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church (57).
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  1. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him (58). The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches (59). Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church (60).
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On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery (61), are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church (62). Baptism in fact tends per se toward the full development of life in Christ, through the integral profession of faith, the Eucharist, and full communion in the Church (63).
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You can find the entire document here at:

adoremus.org/910-00DomJesus.html#anchor6369242

When it came out, it was quite controversial as those who worked in the field of ecumenism were fearful of what the declaration had to say. This, in fact, is an official document of the Church, promulgated by no less than Pope John Paul II, himself. He rose to defend both the document and the Prefect (who would later become his successor) who wrote it.
 
tr1strev said:
Dauphin;4937428:
I’m sure that’s perfectly fine for whatever religion you belong to,

I am Catholic as I’m sure you noticed, your sarcastic response notwithstanding. You do not and cannot know what God will do with each soul that comes to him. Don’t pretend that you do.
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Jesus and the Church told us the ordinary way to get to heaven and He says it’s through the Catholic Church he founded for this reason. Of course God can do anything, but remember He is all-loving, perfectly merciful and perfectly just. He can be no other way. So you either believe what He said or you don’t.
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“Catechism Of The Catholic Church” said:
819: Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
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Dauphin said:
I’m sure that’s perfectly fine for whatever religion you belong to, but Catholics believe that the Church’s dogma is Divinely revealed, and that the Church doesn’t err when it definitively proposes something for belief by all the faithful. Because of this, we can know that God does not raise to heaven those who separate themselves from the Church in an obstinate way or who culpably fail to enter it.
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Not accurate. I think you are implying that they can be saved outside the Church if they are not culpable. Yes, they would not be guilty of that particular sin of infidelity of not joining the Church.
But it doesn’t follow that ignorance gives grace. Those outside the Church lack the Sanctifying Grace of Salvation, Divine Faith, and Subjection to the Roman Pontiff.

A person is not guilty of the sin of infidelity, if that person does not know of the Catholic Church (invincibly ignorant):Pope Pius IX, Singulari Quadem, #7: For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God.

This is the only way to understand this quote in the continuity of the entire Catholic Faith,

but because we are all sinners and having no means to acquire Sanctifying Grace outside the Body of Christ:

Pope Pius XII MYSTICI CORPORIS CHRISTI–“On the Mystical Body of Christ,” 1943 #57:
"Finally, while by His grace He provides for the continual growth of the Church, He yet refuses to dwell through sanctifying grace in those members that are wholly severed from the Body."

They are lost to hell for: their own mortal sin/s not forgiven, either their own actual mortal sin/s or only Original Sin but to punishments of different kinds.
 
Corki said:
You don’t have to know the mind of God, you just have to follow what has been revealed by God to his Church. What has been revealed is that the ordinary way to eternal salvation is through Baptism, the Sacraments, and following the successors to the Apostles as Jesus instructed. God, of course, does not have to follow the rules. 😉 In his mercy, he may bring many more to heaven but it would be in spite of the “rules” not because of them.
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👍👍👍

The Church was entrusted with the Good News of Salavation - the Gospel … she [the Church] cannot teach another means to Salvation [Heaven] … no other path but the one revealed …

As for who enters into Heaven - That is the Father’s business - God alone is the Judge God decides who enters and who is cast away …

As for me … I will follow the surer path and pray that I not stray from it! …
 
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