"ROMAN" Catholic Church

[frnate]

I tell you what, why don’t you go and tell all the other churches that they’re not allowed to use the name “Orthodox” (because every Christian thinks his own church is orthodox i.e. has the correct belief), nor “Episcopal” (because many other churches believe they have valid bishops), nor “Presbyterian” (because many other churches believe they have valid priests/presbyters/elders); nor “Baptist” because all other Christian groups practise baptism; and of course “Church of Christ” and “Church of the Nazarene” are out too, because we all claim to be that. And “Full Gospel Church” is a no-no because we all claim to follow the full gospel.

And of course you would have to remove the “offensive” word “charismatic” from your group’s name, because we all believe we have charisms (gifts of the Holy Spirit, or according to your own definition of charismatic, we are all “filled with the love of God for all His people”). And while you’re at it, tell off those other groups “The Charismatic Catholic Church”, and “The Charismatic Catholic Church of America” which you tell us are NOT connected with your group, “The Catholic Charismatic Church”. (You sound like that scene from Monty Python’s Life of Bryan about the “People’s Front of Judea”, not to be confused with the “Judean People’s Front” etc. )

Why don’t you get back to us when you’ve got replies from all these groups? Then we’ll see what we can do about changing the name which our billions of members and billions more outsiders have used for us for 1900+ years, so that it’s less “offensive” to your organisation which (mea culpa I’m sure) I’ve never heard of other than through your posts here?

Hmmm…please correct me if I’m mistaken but, I’m pretty sure you’re the one insisting that others not use the term “Catholic” for any group other than those you approve of. You’ve just ranted at yourself and it doesn’t really address what I wrote.

Or alternatively you could just behave like a grown-up.

Evidently you haven’t noticed that I’m not the one with my nose out of joint.

BTW I love Life of Brian, anyone care for a seagull 'cicle?

Peace,
+N

 

[frnate]

I’d be more worried about Him asking you “What did you feed them? My Truth, or your own distortions?”

Yes, His truth, not your truth. Generally we use the RC Catechism, well all except for one or two very small portions.

If you have been “put off” Catholicism by the rudeness or uncharitableness of some Catholics, please know that theuir sins do not represent the essence of the Catholic Church.

You mean like when they accuse me of teaching my own personal distortions as the truth?

The procedure here is that if you want a question answered, YOU start a thread with that question.

That’s just it, I don’t have a question about this. Just answers…

Peace,
+N

 

[frnate]

I think if CC causes less offense than RCC then that is fine with me. BUT…realize that you should not offend anyone when they refer to themselves as “Catholics”, Anglo Catholics or otherwise. Similarly, nor should you refer to those who are not CC as “Protestants” since some consider that term to be pejorative.

Rev North (who is trying to negotiate the politically correct path)

Aww Rev, you’re such a peacemaker, or is that cheesemaker… (another referrence to Life of Brian for those of you in Rio Linda )

+N

 

[Petergee]

I think if CC causes less offense than RCC then that is fine with me. BUT…realize that you should not offend anyone when they refer to themselves as “Catholics”, Anglo Catholics or otherwise.

Since when am I “offending” anyone? Neither I nor any Catholic I know “offends” or tries to forbid any non-Catholic from using the word “catholic” as part of the name of their group, provided they do not deliberately mislead the general public by its use into thinking that their group is part of the Catholic Church.

Similarly, nor should you refer to those who are not CC as “Protestants” since some consider that term to be pejorative.

Rev North (who is trying to negotiate the politically correct path)

Yawn! As comprehensively discussed already, 99.9+% of protestants have no problem with being called protestants, and Catholics have no problem with avoiding the word when speaking to or of the minuscule number who claim to find it “pejorative”. Actually I’ve never met any protestant who thought it was pejorative, only a very few who thought it was inaccurate to describe their own denomination.

 

[Petergee]

The term Roman Catholic, Roman church, Roman etc, is use throughout the documents of the western church.

The pejorative term “Roman Catholic”, invented by 17th century Anglicans, is never used in official Holy See documents. “Roman church” and “Roman” are occasxionally used , but with a totally different meaning to the meaning you are trying to force onto them. They are never used as synonyms for the Catholic Church.

They didnt feel that the term was wrong. And if this term is wrong there are a lot of local ROMAN Cathollic church signs in our area which need changing.

Yes, as I mentioned even many Catholics in the US have been deeply affected by the anti-Catholic national culture.

Oh, and by the way, I was Roman Catholic for many years and was proud of it. I didnt need some politically correct way of calling myself anything else.

Like the few “trendy” blacks who claim to be proud to call themselves “n****s”. Sorry, it won’t wash with Catholics.

 

[Nella]

It came as a great shock to me me to find that there were people other than Anglicans in England. As a young man in Canada and raised by an English grandmother I assumed that to be genuinely English was to be Anglican. I now have a friend who was born in England and whose family is still there. His family has been of the Bretheren denomination for a few generations.

My grandmother had a great deal of respect for Catholics but considered them to be a rather superstitious lot. That was generous as she considered people like Baptists to be odd little groups.

{I just thought about it and that last part is funny because it somewhat smacks of Bishop Schori’s remarks about Episcoplains being better educated and more sensitive to global responsibility as stewards of the environment than Catholics in terms of why the Episc Church is smaller (Catholics have more children due to lack of education and lack of concern about the environment???). Her remarks may not reflect the way she actually feels but I think they were interpreted the way I paraphrased them. I know there were some folks irritated here by the remarks}.

Rev North

I tend to agree with Katherine Schori in terms that many RC’s are from third world nations and do not posess the ability to rationalize a religious choice for themselves. I have to believe that a great many RCs may not be RC if for the common knowledge to exist to choose otherwise. Look at how so many Hispanics are leaving the RCC for the many Assemblies of God. These churches are responsible for pulling the most people away from the RCC and the Anglicans are second.

 

[Petergee]

Hmmm…please correct me if I’m mistaken but, I’m pretty sure you’re the one insisting that others not use the term “Catholic” for any group other than those you approve of.

OK, consider yourself corrected.

You’ve just ranted at yourself and it doesn’t really address what I wrote.

Evidently you haven’t noticed that I’m not the one with my nose out of joint.

Funny, I could have sworn you said:

I must also refrain from referring to the Church who is united with the Pope as the Catholic Church, since that is also insulting and inaccurate.

I suggest you do something more important than hunting out reasons to be insulted.

 

[Petergee]

Yes, His truth, not your truth. Generally we use the RC Catechism, well all except for one or two very small portions.

Really? Who publishes this “RC Catechism” of which you speak? I’ve never heard of it.

You mean like when they accuse me of teaching my own personal distortions as the truth?

I never accused you of anything. Just reminded you that you will have to answer to Christ as to whether you taught His Truth. I have no idea whether you teach any distortions, apart from the nonsense you’ve spruiked about Catholics.

That’s just it, I don’t have a question about this. Just answers…

Peace,
+N

I guess we should be grateful to the Almighty for sending us all such a wise guru to teach us the error of our ways.

 

[Petergee]

I tend to agree with Katherine Schori in terms that many RC’s are from third world nations and do not posess the ability to rationalize a religious choice for themselves. I have to believe that a great many RCs may not be RC if for the common knowledge to exist to choose otherwise. Look at how so many Hispanics are leaving the RCC for the many Assemblies of God. These churches are responsible for pulling the most people away from the RCC and the Anglicans are second.

LOL! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week. Schori IIRC is the female Anglican “bishop” with a couple of thousand parishioners who’s famous for her verbal faux pas which show a tenuous grip on reality. But this racist quote, if accurate, is outrageously fantastic even for her. Newsflasheople in the third world are just as rational as Yanks, in fact if anything more so.

The Anglican church is in self-destruct mode and is one of the few churches whose membership is actually declining in real terms, whilst the Catholic Church is increasing faster than any other, with many of its new converts being refugees from the Anglican church’s headlong rush into embracing secularism and irrelevance. Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.

 

[Nella]

LOL! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week. Schori IIRC is the female Anglican “bishop” with a couple of thousand parishioners who’s famous for her verbal faux pas which show a tenuous grip on reality. But this racist quote, if accurate, is outrageously fantastic even for her. Newsflasheople in the third world are just as rational as Yanks, in fact if anything more so.

The Anglican church is in self-destruct mode and is one of the few churches whose membership is actually declining in real terms, whilst the Catholic Church is increasing faster than any other, with many of its new converts being refugees from the Anglican church’s headlong rush into embracing secularism and irrelevance. Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.

I’d really like to know whre you get your facts from. Obviously you are not aware of what has been happening in Central America over the last decade with the Hispanic population flocking to the Assemblies of God churches. Maybe it is just that you don’t want to be aware of it. I guess I don’t blame you in a way. If I strongly believed that my church was ALL truth and folks were leaving it left and right, it would drive me insane.

 

[Nella]

As for the Anglican church worldwide, it is steadfast in its doctrine and beliefs which are undeniably similar to those of the RCC. It is the Episcopal church here in America who is dangerously close to ending its membership in the worldwide Anglican church because it will not comply with the demands of the Anglican communion which calls for a stop to same sex unions and prohibits clergy who participate in sexually active gay relationships. This sounds very Roman Catholic-like to me.

 

[Petergee]

I’d really like to know whre you get your facts from.

Try looking up the Census figures.

Obviously you are not aware of what has been happening in Central America over the last decade with the Hispanic population flocking to the Assemblies of God churches. Maybe it is just that you don’t want to be aware of it.

Or maybe it’s just that you don’t want to be aware that I didn’t even mention the AOG.

I guess I don’t blame you in a way. If I strongly believed that my church was ALL truth and folks were leaving it left and right, it would drive me insane.

Apparently so.

 

[Nella]

Try looking up the Census figures. Or maybe it’s just that you don’t want to be aware that I didn’t even mention the AOG.Apparently so.

why the sarchasm? I’m just stating a fact. Catholic radio hosts have said it several times over the last couple years on Relevant Radio.

 

[Petergee]

why the sarchasm? I’m just stating a fact. Catholic radio hosts have said it several times over the last couple years on Relevant Radio.

I’m sure they haven’t. The three huge whoppers you told in post 86 are your own fond fantasies and bear no resemblance to fact.

 

[Nella]

I’m sure they haven’t. The three huge whoppers you told in post 86 are your own fond fantasies and bear no resemblance to fact.

I have to laugh at your blindness not because it is humorous but because it is really sad. Ever heard of Drew Mariani??

 

[MariaG]

Last I checked, I was a devout NON-reformer so your counter-reformation complaint against their intent doesn’t apply to me. I am not guilty of that particular sin. To lay it on me and those like me is irrational.

Nor can they be required to change their own name. That is kind of the point is it not? For the Patriarchate of Rome seems to (mistakenly) think that she has exclusive right to the term “Catholic.” For those who know better, referring to her as “Roman” is simply a way of distinguishing between jurisdictions. I am personally willing to consider alternatives to actually using the phrase “Roman Catholic,” do you have any suggestions for a better way to distinguish between jurisdictions?

I thought these were Catholic forums. Therein lies the rub, I must also refrain from referring to the Church who is united with the Pope as the Catholic Church, since that is also insulting and inaccurate. So now what?

Please keep in mind that while I do speak here with all candor, I do NOT do so with ANY rancor.

Right back atcha.

+N

(Sorry about the delay in replying, I had some Church obligations and of course I had to take four days out to read the new Harry Potter.)

Ahh Harry Potter! I am sad the series is over.

First, I thank you for your candor, and wish to tell you that I do not sense any sense of an agenda from YOU. But as you can see, there are those here who do have an agenda and use the name to try to further it.

While today, there may be many people like you who see the term Roman, as a simple adjective to describe a denomination, there can be no dispute that this is not the origin of the name. And while it is true that words that used to be derogatory terms, can be claimed by those who they used to be used against (like the “N” word for African Americans), it still does not give others the right to use that derogatory term as a matter of course.

I thought these were Catholic forums. Therein lies the rub, I must also refrain from referring to the Church who is united with the Pope as the Catholic Church, since that is also insulting and inaccurate. So now what?

I am confused by this. These are Catholic forums. What is wrong with the Catholic Church or just CC? Since it is a Catholic forums, no one is confused. One can then refer to Anglican, etc. to refer to other Christians denominations.

And while the Catholic Church has not denied Anglican, Lutherans or others the right to call themselves catholic, we do not choose to add the term Roman, to our name to make things clearer for those who divorced us. Again, you seem to think to make things clear, adding Roman to our name of Catholic would be okay.

We are the Catholic Church. I understand that churches that split off from us also believe they are catholic. But there is a difference between being part of the catholic church, something that due to mans sin is now made up of many denominations, and being part of the Catholic Church, which is the that still chooses to be in communion with Rome.

And unlike people, who do choose to keep the same name after divorce, I do not know of any Anglicans who when asked what Church they attend or what denomination they are, would respond “catholic” since people can’t see “Catholic” or “catholic” in speech. They would say Anglican, Epicopalian, etc.

So what should you call us here? The Catholic Church or CC. There should be no confusion here in these Catholic forums, nor the whole world actually. Most know when one says The Catholic Church, one is referring to the church that choose to stay in communion with the Pope, with no slur or intent to claim that there are not any Christians who are not in communion with the Pope.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[RevDrNorth]

And unlike people, who do choose to keep the same name after divorce, I do not know of any Anglicans who when asked what Church they attend or what denomination they are, would respond “catholic” since people can’t see “Catholic” or “catholic” in speech. They would say Anglican, Epicopalian, etc.

Maria

Actually, I used to know a number of Anglicans who when asked would say there were Anglo Catholic.

Rev North

 

[MariaG]

The term Roman Catholic, Roman church, Roman etc, is use throughout the documents of the western church. They didnt feel that the term was wrong. And if this term is wrong there are a lot of local ROMAN Cathollic church signs in our area which need changing.

Oh, and by the way, I was Roman Catholic for many years and was proud of it. I didnt need some politically correct way of calling myself anything else.

Again, it was used to differentiate between different parts of the Church, not as a universal name of all who are in communion with Rome.

To say Roman Catholic, refering to all who are in communion with Rome is offfensive to a great number of our Catholic who are not Latin Rite Catholics.

Again, just because some wish to claim a name that was once derogatory, does not give the right for others to call us such.

Politically correctness has nothing to do with it. Historical accuracy and honesty do. So unless you can show that the Catholic Church refers to herself and all who are in communion with her as the Roman Catholic Church instead of the Catholic church or simply the Church, you stop using that term to refer to the Catholic Church since that includes many who are not “Roman or Latin rite” but who are still in communion with Rome.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Actually, I used to know a number of Anglicans who when asked would say there were Anglo Catholic.

Rev North

And? What is wrong with that?

You wouldn’t hear them say Catholic though would you, because it would be misunderstood by all hearing it as refering to someone who went to a church in communion with Rome.

 

[MariaG]

I think if CC causes less offense than RCC then that is fine with me. BUT…realize that you should not offend anyone when they refer to themselves as “Catholics”, Anglo Catholics or otherwise. Similarly, nor should you refer to those who are not CC as “Protestants” since some consider that term to be pejorative.

Rev North (who is trying to negotiate the politically correct path)

I am never offended when I hear the term Anglo Catholic.

I usually try to refer to a persons specific denomination, rather than Protestant.

But the biggest difference here is that Roman Catholic was a pejorative placed on us by the reformers, trying to refer to the whole Catholic Church and not just a rite within the Catholic Church. While Protestant was a name CLAIMED by the reformers even though some find it offensive today as they are personally protesting nothing.

And yes, CC is much better than RCC. Thank you.