Roman Catholic Prophecies

  • Thread starter Thread starter stbruderklaus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

stbruderklaus

Guest
Good afternoon, all.

I was curious if some of our Roman friends might expound on some of the more interesting prophecies of late, associated with the Roman communion. Two categories captured my imagination:

1-- The visions of Don Bosco, especially this interesting vision of the Pope and numerous ships heading toward the two pillars. (cf. theotokos.org.uk/pages/fatima/donbosco.html )

2-- The Marian visions of the last century and a half, with the most recent seeming to convey quite apocalyptic messages, coupled with calls to faith and pennance.

Assuming that these prophesies are from God, then hypothetically, they should be of the same inspired nature of Scripture and Tradition, if I understand that correctly. How does Rome handle these things in terms of practical application? How does the average Roman Christian handle these things in their personal walk of faith? How might Romans invite non-Roman Christians to appreciate these messages?

Inquiring Lutherans want to know… 😉

Grace and peace–
 
We must always start with an understanding that private revelation is only binding on the recipient. No one else. Anything said or ordered in private revelation is not required of the Church as a whole.

Let’s say that a woman claims that she is visited by Jesus. FOr argument sake, let’s also allow that the Church finds no fault with the claims. I can accept it or not. If she then says that Jesus told her that all Catholics must wear yellow on Wednesdays, I do not have to listen. If the Church says that there are issues with it, then it is a whole nother can of worms.

To the specifics, the concept that the Church would stay on course so long as she remained between the Holy Eucharist and the Blessed Virgin is not too problematic with Scritpures. The larger and higher of the pillars was the one with Jesus. No issue there. If we take the other to mean more than just Mary, say the intercession of all saints, then there is no issue there either.

As far as the Marion ones go, there is nothing against Scripture to say that we all need to make amends for our sins, repent, and pray more.

I personally have a stronger devotion to some than others. I can do that. There is no reason for me to accept ANY of them, or I can accept them all. They are all considered private revelation and are not binding.
 
stbruderklaus said:
Good afternoon, all.

I was curious if some of our Roman friends might expound on some of the more interesting prophecies of late, associated with the Roman communion. Two categories captured my imagination:

1-- The visions of Don Bosco, especially this interesting vision of the Pope and numerous ships heading toward the two pillars. (cf. theotokos.org.uk/pages/fatima/donbosco.html )

2-- The Marian visions of the last century and a half, with the most recent seeming to convey quite apocalyptic messages, coupled with calls to faith and pennance.

Assuming that these prophesies are from God, then hypothetically, they should be of the same inspired nature of Scripture and Tradition, if I understand that correctly. How does Rome handle these things in terms of practical application? How does the average Roman Christian handle these things in their personal walk of faith? How might Romans invite non-Roman Christians to appreciate these messages?

Inquiring Lutherans want to know… 😉

Grace and peace–
Click to expand...
Interesting question.I happen to attend St john Bosco parish in Port Colborne(a small community on the north shore of Lake Erie approx 20 miles from Buffalo N.Y.)Our stained glass windows are themed after the visions of this sainted priest.Although as Ralphinal has stated I am under no obligation to believe as it is a private revelation,I trust in the wisdom of the Church in this and apparitions that the Church has approved.I myself have been blessed by a vision dream and I truly believe it was from our Lord but it was meant for me and it has no implications for anyone else except one person,unlike let’s say Fatima and it’s exclamation mark the miracle of the sun witnessed by 70,000 believers and unbelievers(by the way,there has never been a recorded mass halucination let alone one shared by 2 or more people.)
 
Thanks for those perspectives.

Perhaps what confuses me a bit, is the application between personal and communal. That vision of the ships was intriguing, as it almost called to my mind the ecumenical state of the broader Church after Vatican II, where many of us that are not Roman, have found ourselves rallying around that flagship of the Roman Pontiff as he continues to defend the historic faith against modern manifestations of ancient heresies, sin, and unbelief.

To my mind, if Rome had a formal statement on how that vision might apply to Christians both within and without the Roman communion, that could influence how Christians work together and seek unity more urgently. Just a thought.

And as for the Marian messages, I completely agree that we can all use a good kick in the pants about bolstering faith and getting serious about repenting of sin. However, some of those messages seem communal by nature-- like dedicating certain nations or groups to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, or the distribution of the Miraculous Medal, or building new shrines or churches where mass healings might be offered. These seem to demand a reception by others than the visionary-- and in the case of Our Lady of Guadalupe, reception by the native popluation of Mexico seemed to result in the conversion of tens of thousands to the Christian faith.

Anyway, it just seems very interesting to me. Kinda like I find it interesting that such visions don’t seem to occur in Lutheran circles…😦

Peace.
 
stbruderklaus said:
Thanks for those perspectives.

Perhaps what confuses me a bit, is the application between personal and communal. That vision of the ships was intriguing, as it almost called to my mind the ecumenical state of the broader Church after Vatican II, where many of us that are not Roman, have found ourselves rallying around that flagship of the Roman Pontiff as he continues to defend the historic faith against modern manifestations of ancient heresies, sin, and unbelief.

To my mind, if Rome had a formal statement on how that vision might apply to Christians both within and without the Roman communion, that could influence how Christians work together and seek unity more urgently. Just a thought.

And as for the Marian messages, I completely agree that we can all use a good kick in the pants about bolstering faith and getting serious about repenting of sin. However, some of those messages seem communal by nature-- like dedicating certain nations or groups to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, or the distribution of the Miraculous Medal, or building new shrines or churches where mass healings might be offered. These seem to demand a reception by others than the visionary-- and in the case of Our Lady of Guadalupe, reception by the native popluation of Mexico seemed to result in the conversion of tens of thousands to the Christian faith.

Anyway, it just seems very interesting to me. Kinda like I find it interesting that such visions don’t seem to occur in Lutheran circles…😦

Peace.
Click to expand...
Just because the message is communal, and many of them are, does not mean that the Church is willing to put it on the level of scripture. First, even when the Church clears an event for devotion, it does not mean that everything about it is kosher. It just means that there is ample reason to think that it is from God.

As to why things like this do not occure in Lutheran circles, they may. It just may be a case where no one comes forward because of social pressure. Many former Protestants turned Catholic hold that they had some sort of even that called them home. Actual events are few and far between
 
stbruderklaus said:
Thanks for those perspectives.

Perhaps what confuses me a bit, is the application between personal and communal. That vision of the ships was intriguing, as it almost called to my mind the ecumenical state of the broader Church after Vatican II, where many of us that are not Roman, have found ourselves rallying around that flagship of the Roman Pontiff as he continues to defend the historic faith against modern manifestations of ancient heresies, sin, and unbelief.

To my mind, if Rome had a formal statement on how that vision might apply to Christians both within and without the Roman communion, that could influence how Christians work together and seek unity more urgently. Just a thought.

And as for the Marian messages, I completely agree that we can all use a good kick in the pants about bolstering faith and getting serious about repenting of sin. However, some of those messages seem communal by nature-- like dedicating certain nations or groups to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, or the distribution of the Miraculous Medal, or building new shrines or churches where mass healings might be offered. These seem to demand a reception by others than the visionary-- and in the case of Our Lady of Guadalupe, reception by the native popluation of Mexico seemed to result in the conversion of tens of thousands to the Christian faith.

Anyway, it just seems very interesting to me. Kinda like I find it interesting that such visions don’t seem to occur in Lutheran circles…😦

Peace.
Click to expand...
About apparitions not happening to Lutherans: don’t fret. An apparition is a grace, that is, a free and undeserving gift from God for the greater good of man. God chooses whom to appear to or whom His saints or angels appear to. All is pleasantry with Him.

But know that God dose not appear to the proud, lest they be exalted, but rather He appears to the humble, that He might exalt their souls in Himself (just as Mary sang, “My soul exalts in the Lord!”)

God exalts the humble and humbles the exalted, and just the reverse is true: He humbles the exalted and exalts the humble.

As far as apparition messages being communal, Mary has said many times throughout history that he words are for the whole world. This goes for every message which God gives to man via His creatures, both living and departed. But private revelations are not Public Revelation, and so, no one needs to listen to them, because everything has already been revealed in Public Revelation. That said, private revelations act as lights along the path of faith, similar to how lanterns act in the dark when pilgrims go to a shrine: the private revelations deepen understanding of the faith and act as reminders for Christians to live the gospel and for the world to adhere to its Creator.

Finally, the Pope is going to issue - perhaps even very soon, if the reports from Italy correct - a handbook on apparitions and on private revelations. The Vatican is cracking down on false revelations and seers, and this is very good. I hope I get to be tested by the Church, for I wish to submit myself to her, for I wish to be obedient, a good child of the Lord (“honor thy father and thy mother”, commands the Lord). So be on the look out for the handbook on apparitions: you’ll be sure to see a thread on it on CAF when it comes out. 😉
 
Roger that-- I can appreciate the resistance to give any contemporary prophecy a weight similar to Scripture. That’s my inner Lutheran coming out… and an institutional resistance to any new prophecy, as it might unsettle our already settled theological positions. Who wants more data, when we already know the answers? 😉

However, one of the things I’ve struggled with over the last year or so, is how to better understand my own position on such things… particularly the Marian visions. I am very sensistive to the idea that if Mary was legitimately communicating to the Church of which she is universal Mother (in our lingo, the communion of all the baptized faithful) that we ought to take notice. It never bodes well to ignore one’s mother.

That issue of legitimacy seems to keep arising… and for many Lutherans, these proposed visions are kept at arms length because of skepticism regarding their authenticity and reliability. However, to be dismissive of legitimate prophecy is a grave matter, and it would seem to me a duty to first evaluate such proposed prophecy… and if found legitimate, receive it.

Just get’s me scratching my head.
 
Cool beans-- I’ll keep an eye out for that publication. I always enjoy reading Pope Benedict’s stuff… even when I can’t fully agree with it.

Cheers.
 
stbruderklaus said:
Roger that-- I can appreciate the resistance to give any contemporary prophecy a weight similar to Scripture. That’s my inner Lutheran coming out… and an institutional resistance to any new prophecy, as it might unsettle our already settled theological positions. Who wants more data, when we already know the answers? 😉

However, one of the things I’ve struggled with over the last year or so, is how to better understand my own position on such things… particularly the Marian visions. I am very sensistive to the idea that if Mary was legitimately communicating to the Church of which she is universal Mother (in our lingo, the communion of all the baptized faithful) that we ought to take notice. It never bodes well to ignore one’s mother.

That issue of legitimacy seems to keep arising… and for many Lutherans, these proposed visions are kept at arms length because of skepticism regarding their authenticity and reliability. However, to be dismissive of legitimate prophecy is a grave matter, and it would seem to me a duty to first evaluate such proposed prophecy… and if found legitimate, receive it.

Just get’s me scratching my head.
Click to expand...
Though no one is forced to embrace a private revelation, everyone is free to embrace a private revelation. Mary dose not tell us anything new, either, she only repeats to us what her Son tells us: to pray and to do penance, to amend our lives and to sin no more. (No one can add to Public Revelation; everything has already been revealed) When she asks us to pray the Rosary, for example, she means many things: to pray, to contemplate, to meditate on Jesus’ Passion, to sin no more (for he who prays cannot sin), to be devoted to Jesus through and with Mary. The messages of Jesus and of His creatures are universal, yet private, profound, yet simple, powerful, yet meek.
 
stbruderklaus said:
Roger that-- I can appreciate the resistance to give any contemporary prophecy a weight similar to Scripture. That’s my inner Lutheran coming out… and an institutional resistance to any new prophecy, as it might unsettle our already settled theological positions. Who wants more data, when we already know the answers? 😉

However, one of the things I’ve struggled with over the last year or so, is how to better understand my own position on such things… particularly the Marian visions. I am very sensistive to the idea that if Mary was legitimately communicating to the Church of which she is universal Mother (in our lingo, the communion of all the baptized faithful) that we ought to take notice. It never bodes well to ignore one’s mother.

That issue of legitimacy seems to keep arising… and for many Lutherans, these proposed visions are kept at arms length because of skepticism regarding their authenticity and reliability. However, to be dismissive of legitimate prophecy is a grave matter, and it would seem to me a duty to first evaluate such proposed prophecy… and if found legitimate, receive it.

Just get’s me scratching my head.
Click to expand...
You may have noticed that many of the visions or apparitions relate to evangelization. Now, each of us is called to evangelize, but just how we carry the mission out is subject to many variables. Private revelation being what it is, the message was efficacious for the receiver, and likely for many others as well, but is not binding upon them to follow or believe. The general message of the evangelistic visions is consistent with Christ’s admonition in Matthew 28:19 to make disciples of all nations, as well as His other exhortations (“Deny yourself, take up your cross daily, then follow Me” as recorded in Luke 9:23, as well as Mark 8:24 and Matthew 16:24. It is thus that the visions are tested as to their source.

Great questions you raise. Keep seeking the truth in everything and it will be revealed in its fulness to you. Amen.
 
Eucharised,you stated "I hope to be tested by the Church…"I’m rather intrigued.Would you care to share?Perhaps by PM if you’d rather not post publicly or if it is against the rules.
 
i’m a catholic and i believe in all Marian apparitions.
one of the latests ones, is in brazil. the difference about this messages to a guy called caludio heckert is the urgence of the appeals and the more specific prophecies.
go to:
save all souls movement, and then read their story. although it’s mainly in portuguese, they are translating some messages in english.
this movement was created by Our Lady Herself and blessed by Her.
another site related to this messages is called “recados de aarao” with also some texts translated to english.

if you believe in apparitions and prophecies, please do read and tell others.
yes, we are already living most everything that is in the book Of Revelations.

another thing, if u have any doubts about this times, read MATHEW, CHAPTER 24. ALSO READ DANIEL
 
stbruderklaus said:
Roger that-- I can appreciate the resistance to give any contemporary prophecy a weight similar to Scripture. That’s my inner Lutheran coming out… and an institutional resistance to any new prophecy, as it might unsettle our already settled theological positions. Who wants more data, when we already know the answers? 😉

However, one of the things I’ve struggled with over the last year or so, is how to better understand my own position on such things… particularly the Marian visions. I am very sensistive to the idea that if Mary was legitimately communicating to the Church of which she is universal Mother (in our lingo, the communion of all the baptized faithful) that we ought to take notice. It never bodes well to ignore one’s mother.

That issue of legitimacy seems to keep arising… and for many Lutherans, these proposed visions are kept at arms length because of skepticism regarding their authenticity and reliability. However, to be dismissive of legitimate prophecy is a grave matter, and it would seem to me a duty to first evaluate such proposed prophecy… and if found legitimate, receive it.

Just get’s me scratching my head.
Click to expand...
My personal opinion is very very soon everybody will be aware of prophecy, read about the visions at Garabandal Spain in the early 1960s and also read about Joey Lomangino in NY City for starters
 
i’m a catholic and i believe in all Marian apparitions.
one of the latests ones, is in brazil. the difference about this messages to a guy called caludio heckert is the urgence of the appeals and the more specific prophecies.
go to:
save all souls movement, and then read their story. although it’s mainly in portuguese, they are translating some messages in english.
this movement was created by Our Lady Herself and blessed by Her.
another site related to this messages is called “recados de aarao” with also some texts translated to english.

**And have these been approved by the Church?

If not, you’re violating one of the rules of this forum, which forbid propogating unapproved visions and revelations.**

My personal opinion is very very soon everybody will be aware of prophecy, read about the visions at Garabandal Spain in the early 1960s and also read about Joey Lomangino in NY City for starters

**here is a site with Garabandal info www.catholicplanet.com**

The commotion at Garabandal was condemned by the local bishop.
 
Now that was tremendously helpful. I’m encouraged that there are such rules and regulations on this forum.

It also suggests to me that there’s a pattern for approved visions and prophecies that is quite fundamental and helpful.

Anyone to whom a vision or prophecy comes, resides within a parish community, subject to a priest or bishop. That parish is subject to the diocese… and that diocese has a submissive relationship with all other dioceses. What is received by the individual must be brought to the priest… and the priest, if he deems it worthy, must bring it before the bishop. The bishop must ascertain whether or not it fits within the broader catholic context of revelation.

That would seem to help greatly reduce the propagation of false or misleading visions, whose origin might be other than heaven.

Does anyone else see a trend against this formula? I know there’s a lot of ecclesiastical challenge and debate regarding the visions at Medgjujore (spelling?)… and I just heard about this odd stuff happening in Brazil.

Peace.
 
And have these been approved by the Church?

If not, you’re violating one of the rules of this forum, which forbid propogating unapproved visions and revelations.

MY ANSWER TO THIS IS VERY SIMPLE MY FRIEND:

how many apprarition in the 20 th century were approved by the church (vatican & Pope)? not many. many of them took place, loads of them still going, with the indifference of the church? why? because it’s in the interest of free masons to undermine everything that can save souls. simple, no?
medjugorje ha been reproved altely by some cardinals, not by the Pope. even John Paul II said that he would rather lead the church from medjugorje than from the vatican. you all have to be aware that nowadays, the Pope is very isolated. the great majority of cardinals and bishops, working closely with the Pope, actually disobey him. The Pope, by himself cannot approve certain appraritions. but he doesn’t reprove. when the Pope doesn’t, at least reprove, take it as a personal approval.
now, do you believe in Vassula, True Life in God? wasn’t disapproved. do you believe in the messages of father Gobbi? wasn’t disapproved. nor was medjugorje, akito, save all souls movement, debora and many, many more. it’s a strong sign of these apocalyptic times . Our Lady has been warning us for a long time.
NOW ANOTHER THING:
as you know, Our Lady did ask to Lucy in fatima for the Pope and all bishops in the world to consecrate russia to the world, wasn’t it? if they would do that, peace would prevail. if not, communism and atheism, as well as wars would spread. All Popes, since then never did it, due to evil forces coming from the free masonry infiltrated inside the Vatican. IT WAS A REQUEST FROM OUR LADY. as you can see, this is a sign that we are walking towards the second coming of Christ. if even Popes couldn’t attend Our Lady’s request, who could do it?
the same happens with dozens and dozens of Marion apparitions. we are the church, we simple, humble catholics are making our church alive. the Pope is our guide. lots of priests, bishops and cardinals don’t believe or ignore apparitions. even my local priest isn’t aware of much. what can we do? pray for them, for the convertion of the world and all the rest.
so, my friend, i’m 100% sure about what i’m talking about. if who ever is in charge of this forum thinks i’m violating whatever, stop me from being here. it won’t make any difference to me. i only speak the truth. God expects this from me and from everyone.
by the way, Pope Benedict XVI never said anything to disprove the “save all souls movement”. how could he? it was created and blessed by Our Lady Herself.
 
luis_rcoelho said:
MY ANSWER TO THIS IS VERY SIMPLE MY FRIEND:

how many apprarition in the 20 th century were approved by the church (vatican & Pope)? not many. many of them took place, loads of them still going, with the indifference of the church? why? because it’s in the interest of free masons to undermine everything that can save souls. simple, no?
Click to expand...
Huh? Conspiracy theories? Ugh!
medjugorje ha been reproved altely by some cardinals, not by the Pope. even John Paul II said that he would rather lead the church from medjugorje than from the vatican.
Click to expand...
What? Frankly, hard to believe.
you all have to be aware that nowadays, the Pope is very isolated. the great majority of cardinals and bishops, working closely with the Pope, actually disobey him. The Pope, by himself cannot approve certain appraritions. but he doesn’t reprove. when the Pope doesn’t, at least reprove, take it as a personal approval.
now, do you believe in Vassula, True Life in God? wasn’t disapproved. do you believe in the messages of father Gobbi? wasn’t disapproved. nor was medjugorje, akito, save all souls movement, debora and many, many more. it’s a strong sign of these apocalyptic times . Our Lady has been warning us for a long time.
NOW ANOTHER THING:
as you know, Our Lady did ask to Lucy in fatima for the Pope and all bishops in the world to consecrate russia to the world, wasn’t it? if they would do that, peace would prevail. if not, communism and atheism, as well as wars would spread. All Popes, since then never did it, due to evil forces coming from the free masonry infiltrated inside the Vatican. IT WAS A REQUEST FROM OUR LADY. as you can see, this is a sign that we are walking towards the second coming of Christ. if even Popes couldn’t attend Our Lady’s request, who could do it?
the same happens with dozens and dozens of Marion apparitions. we are the church, we simple, humble catholics are making our church alive. the Pope is our guide. lots of priests, bishops and cardinals don’t believe or ignore apparitions. even my local priest isn’t aware of much. what can we do? pray for them, for the convertion of the world and all the rest.
so, my friend, i’m 100% sure about what i’m talking about. if who ever is in charge of this forum thinks i’m violating whatever, stop me from being here. it won’t make any difference to me. i only speak the truth. God expects this from me and from everyone.
by the way, Pope Benedict XVI never said anything to disprove the “save all souls movement”. how could he? it was created and blessed by Our Lady Herself.
Click to expand...
I pray this is not the case, but it sounds as though you approve of disobedience?!? First, the Church has been given all authority to examine the alleged apparitions and pass judgment upon them. The fact that it has not yet chosen to do so is something we must bear. Medugorje is continuing, and so the Church cannot test it. The private revelation or apparitions must be complete before judgment can be passed.

Now, we may all love what is being said to us, but remember that 99% of what the evil one says through false prophets sounds beautiful. It is the hidden 1% that leads astray. Since I do not think I am qualified to discern that 1%, I defer to the Church that Christ founded. If you must have an apparition to believe in, go to one that has been examined and shown to be true.

Or, am I reading you wrong?
 
I want to remind everyone that ANY private revelation is just that: private. No Catholic other than the one that has it is required to accept it. Further, this site has made the wise decision to prohibit discussion of unapproved visions.

It is not because of any conspiracy or any of that. Mother Church has not said that we can play with those kids, and until Momma lets us play, we cannot play.
 
Francis Cardinal Arinze has a few words to say about apparitions, visions and locutions:

youtube.com/watch?v=29f69elBzvs&feature=channel

Since he was, and will be on the short list for Pope, I listen to him. He seems to believe that Jesus Christ, present with us in the Blessed Sacrament, is more important than any private revelation. imagine that!

Christ’s peace be with all of you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top