J
Jean_1958
Guest
What I would like to know is if the people attending these masses given by “Roman Catholic Women Priests” consider themselves to be faithful Catholics?
- Status
A
aborodki
Guest
Not to mention that some of their services include standing around in a circle holding hands. Something like that reminds me of pagan worships. I have never even seen that type of worship in Christian services before!
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
<>
NOBODY has a right to be ordained. That’s her first error.
NOBODY has a right to be ordained. That’s her first error.
A
ac_claire
Guest
I’m very familiar with these people. Yes they are claiming to be a part of the Catholic Church, but they’re excommunicated. The formal excommuinications of many of them have happened since some of those youtube videos were made. You could say that they excommunicated themselves anyhow with their disobedience.I was randomly looking up videos on Youtube () when I happened upon these:
youtube.com/watch?v=c-Sz983N9Dg
youtube.com/watch?v=NYXpHlLSzaY&feature=channel
youtube.com/watch?v=SfKSfJ9cLwY&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=UWp3zUb14Ms&feature=related
Are these people actually claiming to be part of the Catholic Church, as in, the Church in union with the Bishop of Rome? It doesn’t seem like they could be Episcopalians, since they say “Roman Catholic”. What is this all about? I know that this is of course invalid and illicit, but who are these people? Did any bishops actually have anything to do with this?
romancatholicwomenpriests.org/
womensordination.org/
They believe they are validly ordained because they were ordained by a bishop who was ordained by a valid Catholic bishop, in anonymity. To protect this bishop (or maybe plural, bishops) from discipline by the Holy See they won’t reveal who they are. But they insist the ordinations are valid.
C
CWBetts
Guest
I find any that reject statements by the Pope (ex cathedra or not) to be hypocrites of the highest order. You are 100% correct, in challenging the infallibility of the Church, the hve declared themselves to possess the chrism of infallibility. If they want so desperately to be “priests” and celebrate “Mass” why don’t they just walk down the block to the Episcopalian church? Because they are not content to simply leave the Church. They feel that they must attack it from within.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Oh, and that’s another thing. They have decided that the presider, as the servant of all, ought to receive last, so they have changed their rubrics on that. Never mind the plain truth that you can’t bring anyone else into communion if you don’t first tend to being in communion yourself.
There is some poetic reality to that little change, come to think of it.
Again, if they were content to just start a new religion, that would be sad enough. As it is, they don’t want to leave, so they pretend they can leave without leaving, can be in obedience without obeying, and can become guardians of sacred tradition while abandoning it.
They act as if Holy Orders could be stolen, like fire from Olympus, and make themselves out to be some sort of Robin Hoods of the sacred. It is sad, it really is.
N
NeedImprovement
Guest
This thread can serve to identify some of the more latent damage doers. We’re always better off when we’re more aware. Some things which can seem relatively “harmless” from a distance are *anything but *once we scratch the surface.
A little further below, a quote is provided from a book entitled:
THE PAPAL "NO"
A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO THE VATICAN’S REJECTION OF WOMEN’S ORDINATION
…doesn’t sound bad so far - does it? But, it was written by Deborah Halter (published 2004) who, at that time, was executive director of the Women’s Ordination Conference. In the short excerpt which follows, the National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN) is quoted …that name sounds safe enough too - doesn’t it ? Please have a look at this link (it was the first one which came up in my search engine) ncan.us/ scroll down a little, and read under the title "Support for Maryknoll priest, Rev. Roy Bourgeois" to view a sample of just what type of misguided drivel they are capable of publishing as they wound the Church from within.
Here’s the excerpt from Chapt. 24; pg 145 of the book THE PAPAL “NO”… :
…In August 2003 another woman made priestly vows – South African Dominican Sister patrician Ann Fresen, a theologian with academic credentials from the Pontifical Institute in Rome and a professor at St. John Vianney Seminary in Pretoria. A nun for forty-four years, she was ordained (the author’s words – not mine) at the Second Women’s European Synod in Barcelona. In a letter to supporters, Fresen explained that when she studied theology in Rome with male seminarians during the 1980’s, she had been invited to many of their ordinations causing “desire and anger” to alternate within her. After feeling called to the priesthood for a quarter-century, she decided that the “only way to change the unjust law is to break it. We learned this lesson very well in South Africa during the apartheid years."
The National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN) wrote Fresen in January 2004, comparing her to Rosa Parks, the black woman whose refusal to a white man sparked the 1960’s civil rights movement in the American South; “If she complied with the law, she would proclaim her second-class status and lose her self respect. If she sat where she believed she belonged, she would incur the punishment [meted out to] those who broke the law.” Further, the (NCAN) letter to Fresen said : “You could have chosen to remain in your prestigious and acceptable teaching position within the Church,” but instead “you resolved to follow God’s call to you…”
Note that Fresen says being invited to many of her classmates’ ordinations causes “desire and anger” to "alternate" within her.
Those elements - “desire and anger” (at least in myself) would be much more likely to give rise to (or be an indicator of) feelings of envy, resentment or jealousy.
The excerpt further illustrates the inability of those in favour of women’s ordination to divorce “calling” from “rights”…" … to deal with each as a separate thing :
" It is vital to note that conscience does not determine what is good and evil. If our consciences could determine good and evil, we would be equal to the Creator. …
"We are always obligated to follow a certain conscience, but it must be informed with the truths of Christ. However, it is possible for our consciences to be in error…
“'Conscience is not an independent and exclusive capacity to decide what is good and what is evil
Pope John Paul II visited the subject of moral conscience often. There is a great article on this aspect of the Pope’s teaching by Dr. Rchard A. Spinello (who teaches moral philosophy and applied ethics courses at Boston College) here hprweb.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206
ope-john-paul-ii-on-conscience&catid=34:current-issue
Whether or not those pushing for the ordination of women truly believe all this judgmental propaganda which they are going to great lengths to fabricate, they still need our prayers.
A little further below, a quote is provided from a book entitled:
THE PAPAL "NO"
A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO THE VATICAN’S REJECTION OF WOMEN’S ORDINATION
…doesn’t sound bad so far - does it? But, it was written by Deborah Halter (published 2004) who, at that time, was executive director of the Women’s Ordination Conference. In the short excerpt which follows, the National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN) is quoted …that name sounds safe enough too - doesn’t it ? Please have a look at this link (it was the first one which came up in my search engine) ncan.us/ scroll down a little, and read under the title "Support for Maryknoll priest, Rev. Roy Bourgeois" to view a sample of just what type of misguided drivel they are capable of publishing as they wound the Church from within.
Here’s the excerpt from Chapt. 24; pg 145 of the book THE PAPAL “NO”… :
…In August 2003 another woman made priestly vows – South African Dominican Sister patrician Ann Fresen, a theologian with academic credentials from the Pontifical Institute in Rome and a professor at St. John Vianney Seminary in Pretoria. A nun for forty-four years, she was ordained (the author’s words – not mine) at the Second Women’s European Synod in Barcelona. In a letter to supporters, Fresen explained that when she studied theology in Rome with male seminarians during the 1980’s, she had been invited to many of their ordinations causing “desire and anger” to alternate within her. After feeling called to the priesthood for a quarter-century, she decided that the “only way to change the unjust law is to break it. We learned this lesson very well in South Africa during the apartheid years."
The National Coalition of American Nuns (NCAN) wrote Fresen in January 2004, comparing her to Rosa Parks, the black woman whose refusal to a white man sparked the 1960’s civil rights movement in the American South; “If she complied with the law, she would proclaim her second-class status and lose her self respect. If she sat where she believed she belonged, she would incur the punishment [meted out to] those who broke the law.” Further, the (NCAN) letter to Fresen said : “You could have chosen to remain in your prestigious and acceptable teaching position within the Church,” but instead “you resolved to follow God’s call to you…”
Note that Fresen says being invited to many of her classmates’ ordinations causes “desire and anger” to "alternate" within her.
Those elements - “desire and anger” (at least in myself) would be much more likely to give rise to (or be an indicator of) feelings of envy, resentment or jealousy.
The excerpt further illustrates the inability of those in favour of women’s ordination to divorce “calling” from “rights”…" … to deal with each as a separate thing :
- “After feeling called to the priesthood for a quarter-century, she decided that the “only way to change the unjust law is to break it. We learned this lesson very well in South Africa during the apartheid years.”
- Again, in the second paragraph, notice the long spiel about dear Rosa Parks which is employed as a type of transition/precursor of, “…but instead “you resolved to follow God’s call to you.”
" It is vital to note that conscience does not determine what is good and evil. If our consciences could determine good and evil, we would be equal to the Creator. …
"We are always obligated to follow a certain conscience, but it must be informed with the truths of Christ. However, it is possible for our consciences to be in error…
“'Conscience is not an independent and exclusive capacity to decide what is good and what is evil
Pope John Paul II visited the subject of moral conscience often. There is a great article on this aspect of the Pope’s teaching by Dr. Rchard A. Spinello (who teaches moral philosophy and applied ethics courses at Boston College) here hprweb.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206
ope-john-paul-ii-on-conscience&catid=34:current-issueWhether or not those pushing for the ordination of women truly believe all this judgmental propaganda which they are going to great lengths to fabricate, they still need our prayers.
P
PJM
Guest
***Ignorance of “The Law” does not lesten ones degree of cupability.
It is interesting that Pope JP II said in his BINDING ON ALL, all of the time Instruction on this topic that: Code of CL #'s 751-754
“The Church is NOT saying She will not allow women priest. She is explainging that She [The CC] cannot, as in does not have either the power or authority to do so!”
Why? Physiology: “This IS MY BODY” requires male gender
Why? Ordination is a Sacrament instituted By Jesus Christ. The Church can’t over rule Jesus.
Sacred Tradition. Jesus was an independent thinker, not influenced by the the thought of His time. If He intened for Women to be Priest, Mary His Mother and Mary Magdiline
Would likely have been included.***
Love and prayers,
E
Earnest_Bunbury
Guest
Due to a lack of faith, the supernatural aspects of the Church are downplayed in favor of the temporal as in the society of the Church being seen strictly as a human institution. This is an attack on the Church but not injurious to those with faith. This faith leads to testing every spirit and discerning the spiritual aspects behind what is happening. Jesus asks that when He returns will He find, not “rights” “fairness” or political “correct” action, that these “women priests” are seeking, but faith. Faith,ask and it will be given, seek and ye shall find.
S
stuart12
Guest
Good post.
‘When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on earth’.
A priest I heard a few weeks back, mentioned how our society prizes ‘success’ but he said that we are not called to be successful, but to be ‘faithful’ and ‘loyal’. Being faithful to One, will make you unpopular with the rest who are aiming to ‘secure’ your support for their cause.
No one has a right to be ordained to the sacred state of Priesthood. Even if I were to believe that I have a decent knowledge of theology, would be more orthodox than many priests and could give better advice than the average confessor, I could not march up to Cardinal O’Brien and demand to be ordained as I had ‘matched the criteria’.
Priesthood is a calling, and it is Christ Who calls.
E
Eddie_Mac
Guest
On another women priest thread the main thread participant demanding her right to be ordained insisted that Christ was calling her and other women to the priesthood.
I could not convince her that Christ will not call her to something that He does not want done in His Church. Something else is calling them, certainly not Christ.
Pretty simple, actually.
Eddie Mac
J
Javl
Guest
These women like to play “Church”, much like those who disagreed with the Majesterium
and formed the “Liberal Catholic Church”. None of these can be considered worshipping
God. Don’t they all know that when they are disobedient to the Pope and the Majesterium
they are disobedirnt to Jesus and are rejecting Him? Lord, have mercy on them for they know not what they do.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
and formed the “Liberal Catholic Church”. None of these can be considered worshipping
God. Don’t they all know that when they are disobedient to the Pope and the Majesterium
they are disobedirnt to Jesus and are rejecting Him? Lord, have mercy on them for they know not what they do.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
E
EasterJoy
Guest
These women are not playing. This is not a harmless and joyful exercise in imagination. If that is what they were doing, the Church would not publicly recognize that they have excommunicated themselves.These women like to play “Church”, much like those who disagreed with the Majesterium
and formed the “Liberal Catholic Church”. None of these can be considered worshipping
God. Don’t they all know that when they are disobedient to the Pope and the Majesterium
they are disobedirnt to Jesus and are rejecting Him? Lord, have mercy on them for they know not what they do.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
What they have done is leave the Church in protest. They have started a new sect that suits them better. They imagine it to be “a new way of being Roman Catholic” or the like, but since the time of Martin Luther “reimagining” a “better” universal Church is precisely what it means to be Protestant. Who ever left the Church just to leave? Protestants have always left because the Church will not bend (as is her right, in matters of discipline) or cannot bend (as is her duty, in matters of faith) to suit them, and they, for their part, will not bend to obey the Church.
It doesn’t matter that the women won’t admit that. It is what they have done.
They say they “reject” their excommunication. It is like pretending to be married, protesting that both parties said their vows, when the truth is that the putative marriage suffered a defect in form and has been declared null. Refusing to recognize the findings of the tribunal doesn’t change that. Whether or not they deny the relationship they have chosen to have with the universal Church, the relationship is what it is, because it takes two to have a relationship and two to define what the conditions of a relationship shall be. Some relationships, moreover, have non-negotiable conditions that come out of the very nature of their being. Like marriage, this is one of them.
They don’t seem to get that. They seem to think that the right to define their relationship with the Church is theirs alone, or that the relationship is totally open to human invention…that is, that the heirarchy have the perogative to make the relationship other than what it is. This is wishful thinking, at best. I choose to believe that they are perpetuating this falsehood because they are in denial themselves. It is very sad, like dealing with someone who insists that the marriage they hoped would last for a lifetime is valid and that reconcilation is possible when the marriage is in fact null. It is painful to watch. If one has a heart, one has to feel for them. Still, the facts are what they are.
These are the facts: Roman Catholic Womenpriests is a Protestant sect with its own defined heirarchy, sacraments, rubrics, and theology. The only difference between it and other Protestant sects is that it is falsely representing itself as a being in full communion with Rome. It is not, and it will never be. Its defined heirarchy, sacraments, rubrics, and theology are fundamentally incompatible with those of the universal Church. The Church heirarchy cannot change that, even if it wanted to. Any bishop who attempts it will necessarily abandon the Church himself. Those are the facts.
If this group continues to falsely represent itself as Roman Catholic, then Rome and her bishops have a duty to the faithful to publicly correct that misrepresentation, and in no uncertain terms. Beyond that difference, though, the organization is simply one among literally thousands of Protestant sects, even if it is a particularly sad case, due to their impossible desire to remain Roman Catholic in name without remaining Roman Catholic in practice.
N
nordskoven
Guest
A “priestess” cannot atone for the “Sin of Adam.” God put Adam in charge when there were no other humans. Woman was created as God’s gift to man, Adam. Woman ate of the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Nothing happened when the Woman ate. She accrued personal sin, not corporate, universal sin. For this act, she paid the personal price of having pains in child bearing. She was not cursed. Lucifer was cursed with the Woman & Seed. The earth was cursed to bring forth thorns and thistles as the personal responsibility facet of Adam’s bad choice.
Sin and death did not come into the world when the Woman ate the forbidden fruit because she had no grant of power and authority from God. Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and sin and death came into the world. When King David disobeyed God by conducting a census, as if to contravene God’s promise that Abraham’s seed would be virtually countless, God punished all the land with a plague. The ruler disobeyed, and sin and death came into the world via his corporate authority, his ability to decide the fate of all people under his divinely-granted rulership. The Angel of Death was stopped by King David buying the threshing floor that is now called the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and buying the oxen to offer in sacrificial atonement for his sin that cursed the land.
While Woman initially had no authority from God to contravene, God gave her and her Seed one: God cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed. Woman & Seed are now charged with eternal enmity towards Lucifer and his minions. Woman & Seed have a separate power and authority that is intertwined with Adam’s. Man, and Woman & Seed act in unity, not sameness. Adam and other males offered sacrifices to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” Cain slew Abel in jealousy when God accepted his blood sacrifice over Cain’s plant sacrifice. Noah offered sacrifice to God when debarking Noah’s Ark. Abraham gave bread and wine to the priest-king of Salem, Melchizedek. Men alone can offer sacrifice to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” Not Woman’s problem, not Woman’s power and authority–here using “Woman” as the Genesis title. Christ spoke of His mother using the term “Woman” exclusively for this reason, to show female power and authority to uphold “life and blessing” versus those promoting “death and cursing.”
Woman & Seed has the divine grant of power and authority to crush Lucifer’s head, to destroy the core of his being. Christ acted under both the Adamic and Evaeic grant of power and authority. Christ acts as Steward of Life Unto Death, Priest and Sacrifice, King and Servant as the Second Adam. From the Woman, as the “Seed of the Woman,” Christ derived the power and authority to conquer sin and death by defeating Lucifer and his spiritual offspring. Both roles intertwine perfectly.
It is a forensic, legal impossibility for a female to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” It’s called the “Sin of Adam” not the “Sin of Adam and Eve” for a reason. All women are called to join the Virgin Mary in uniting against the Father of Lies and Murder as the Archangel Gabriel said she is blessed “among” women, within the milieu, not “above” women as Hannah, mother of the prophet Samuel, was described. Christ was a member of the Chosen People through His mother, as Hebrews account lineage through the Woman as part of the Genesis 3:15 mandate. So Catholics, Messianic Jews, are adopted and ingrafted into the New and Eternal Covenant through kinship with Christ as our Brother, the Virgin Mary as our mother.
All men, women and children have their own spheres of divine power and authority to prosecute. There are no “loose cannons” or freelancers operating independently of God’s grant of power and authority. You are either for us or against us, in or out. Just as Adam pathetically tried to blame the Woman God made for him for his sin, his betrayal of God’s trust, so those who make woman a “priestess” blame her for the “Sin of Adam.” Those periods in which popular culture has blamed the Woman for Original Sin, there has been the highest incidence of legal deprivation and personal abuse. Making of woman a priestess is demonic. Woman & Seed are the eternal foes of Satan and his spawn. May the Lord deliver us from the Father of Lies and Murder. A female celebrant on the altar wouldn’t be a self-sacrificing Priest-Sacrifice Alter Christus. She can only be a priestess who sacrifices her child, grisly and Satanic.
Blessed Virgin Mary, pierced with a sword of sorrow that the thoughts of all may be revealed, expose all secret beliefs and hidden workings to the cleansing fire of your Son, Jesus Christ’s Sacred Heart and preserve us in your maternal love and heavenly victory as your children, one with the Body of Christ. AMEN
Sin and death did not come into the world when the Woman ate the forbidden fruit because she had no grant of power and authority from God. Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and sin and death came into the world. When King David disobeyed God by conducting a census, as if to contravene God’s promise that Abraham’s seed would be virtually countless, God punished all the land with a plague. The ruler disobeyed, and sin and death came into the world via his corporate authority, his ability to decide the fate of all people under his divinely-granted rulership. The Angel of Death was stopped by King David buying the threshing floor that is now called the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, and buying the oxen to offer in sacrificial atonement for his sin that cursed the land.
While Woman initially had no authority from God to contravene, God gave her and her Seed one: God cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed. Woman & Seed are now charged with eternal enmity towards Lucifer and his minions. Woman & Seed have a separate power and authority that is intertwined with Adam’s. Man, and Woman & Seed act in unity, not sameness. Adam and other males offered sacrifices to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” Cain slew Abel in jealousy when God accepted his blood sacrifice over Cain’s plant sacrifice. Noah offered sacrifice to God when debarking Noah’s Ark. Abraham gave bread and wine to the priest-king of Salem, Melchizedek. Men alone can offer sacrifice to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” Not Woman’s problem, not Woman’s power and authority–here using “Woman” as the Genesis title. Christ spoke of His mother using the term “Woman” exclusively for this reason, to show female power and authority to uphold “life and blessing” versus those promoting “death and cursing.”
Woman & Seed has the divine grant of power and authority to crush Lucifer’s head, to destroy the core of his being. Christ acted under both the Adamic and Evaeic grant of power and authority. Christ acts as Steward of Life Unto Death, Priest and Sacrifice, King and Servant as the Second Adam. From the Woman, as the “Seed of the Woman,” Christ derived the power and authority to conquer sin and death by defeating Lucifer and his spiritual offspring. Both roles intertwine perfectly.
It is a forensic, legal impossibility for a female to atone for the “Sin of Adam.” It’s called the “Sin of Adam” not the “Sin of Adam and Eve” for a reason. All women are called to join the Virgin Mary in uniting against the Father of Lies and Murder as the Archangel Gabriel said she is blessed “among” women, within the milieu, not “above” women as Hannah, mother of the prophet Samuel, was described. Christ was a member of the Chosen People through His mother, as Hebrews account lineage through the Woman as part of the Genesis 3:15 mandate. So Catholics, Messianic Jews, are adopted and ingrafted into the New and Eternal Covenant through kinship with Christ as our Brother, the Virgin Mary as our mother.
All men, women and children have their own spheres of divine power and authority to prosecute. There are no “loose cannons” or freelancers operating independently of God’s grant of power and authority. You are either for us or against us, in or out. Just as Adam pathetically tried to blame the Woman God made for him for his sin, his betrayal of God’s trust, so those who make woman a “priestess” blame her for the “Sin of Adam.” Those periods in which popular culture has blamed the Woman for Original Sin, there has been the highest incidence of legal deprivation and personal abuse. Making of woman a priestess is demonic. Woman & Seed are the eternal foes of Satan and his spawn. May the Lord deliver us from the Father of Lies and Murder. A female celebrant on the altar wouldn’t be a self-sacrificing Priest-Sacrifice Alter Christus. She can only be a priestess who sacrifices her child, grisly and Satanic.
Blessed Virgin Mary, pierced with a sword of sorrow that the thoughts of all may be revealed, expose all secret beliefs and hidden workings to the cleansing fire of your Son, Jesus Christ’s Sacred Heart and preserve us in your maternal love and heavenly victory as your children, one with the Body of Christ. AMEN
A
ac_claire
Guest
Excellent post, EJ.
J
Javl
Guest
Ok, they may not be playing, but their actions certainly show it, like children playing “Church”.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said. Also, the sad part of it is that they will soon start worshipping a female God ( or godess ) and end up behaving like the women in a witch’s coven.
N
nicmic01
Guest
Does anyone see a Catholic Church alter or the Eucharist in these pictures?
They are taken in some sort of a meeting hall and that is all.
There are wanna be’s.
They are taken in some sort of a meeting hall and that is all.
There are wanna be’s.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
They sometimes meet and hold their liturgies (modelled after Roman Catholic liturgies, but with altered rubrics) in the sanctuaries of other Protestant churches. Many churches, however, are hesitant to allow this while the group is falsely representing itself as being in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church, as they realize this is offensive to Roman Catholics.
We had a similar situation in our archdiocese, by the way. There were parishes that were hosting “seders” during Passover. Nobody saw the harm in this, until some local Jews pointed out that this would be a little like the synagogues offering a “Mass” that wasn’t Christian. The archbishop, seeing that this was a legitimate point, let it be known that the parishes should not host or encourage such events any more. Educational explanations of Passover are OK, accepting an invitation to a seder hosted by Jews is OK–kind of like a Jew being allowed to witness the Mass–but no more pretending to be Jewish for a day. It is a matter of mutual respect.
I fully believe in freedom of religion, but it is time for Roman Catholic Womenpriests to start respecting the Roman Catholic Church. Those of us who still believe that full equality can be reconciled with the truth that there is a real and legitimate ritual difference between male and female should be allowed to worship in peace.
J
Javl
Guest
Deviating a momemt from the subject of this thread, a bit of FYI:
Hebrew Catholics ( Jews who are Catholic and are loyal to the Pope ) still adhere to their culture. They may keep a Kosher home, still celebrate Jewish holydays, wear a Yarmulka, tsitsit, etc. This is with approval of the Holy Father. For further information,
visit www.hebrewcatholic.com.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
- Status