Roman Catholics decline in England, Wales

[ProVobis]

I’m just guessing, but I think that in many places, the religion of secularism, or at least those proposing its values, are doing a better job of evangelizing the young than Christians. One can only hope that Pope Francis’ example will help to counter that.

It may but it won’t necessarily translate into increased regular Mass attendance. Every time I go to Mass I can’t help but think that if it weren’t for increased life longevity, there wouldn’t even be as much attendance as there is.

 

[JimG]

It may but it won’t necessarily translate into increased regular Mass attendance. Every time I go to Mass I can’t help but think that if it weren’t for increased life longevity, there wouldn’t even be as much attendance as there is.

I understand, but still, just speaking from the point of view of the parishes in my own diocese, if all the old folks quit attending, the church would still be pretty full with just the youth.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Could the reason for the decline be due, at least in part, largely or minimally, too migrants, who temporarily settled in England Wales and have migrated elsewhere? The article noted

… despite a wave of immigrants from Poland and other Eastern European countries with historically Catholic backgrounds.

religionnews.com/2014/01/07/roman-catholics-decline-england-wales

Those immigrants do not all stay permanently. They migrate to other countries or move back to their country of birth.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Could the reason for the decline be due, at least in part, largely or minimally, too migrants, who temporarily settled in England Wales and have migrated elsewhere? The article noted

religionnews.com/2014/01/07/roman-catholics-decline-england-wales

Those immigrants do not all stay permanently. They migrate to other countries or move back to their country of birth.

I don’t think so. The article specifically said that the Catholic Church in England and Wales was expecting an increase in membership by 30,000 [Due to baptisms and conversions]. However, they actually had a decrease in membership by 90,000.

That means that while 30,000 people came into the Church (through either baptism or conversion), 120,000 people who were already Catholic left the doors.

How they left, idk. Most of them could have died, if the Church is aging over there. Doesn’t the Catholic Church continue to count all of those Baptized youth who don’t attend as Catholic still? Aren’t they still Catholic, by virtue of their baptism, even if they have been led astray? That’s what I thought anyways.

 

[ProVobis]

How they left, idk. Most of them could have died, if the Church is aging over there. Doesn’t the Catholic Church continue to count all of those Baptized youth who don’t attend as Catholic still? Aren’t they still Catholic, by virtue of their baptism, even if they have been led astray? That’s what I thought anyways.

Good questions. The Catholic Church counts its memberships by the number of those directly baptized into the Catholic faith. I suppose they count converts from Protestant denominations too. I don’t know if they substract those who consider themselves ex-Catholics, for those numbers are huge, in the U.S. at least.

 

[Coatimundi]

I thought I read a news article here on CAF not too long ago saying how Mass attendance was up in England due to the “Pope Francis effect?” Is this so?

The statistics do not include the tenure of Pope Francis. The statistics cover the years 2011 and 2012.

Here are some more details of the changes which occurred from 2011 to 2012:

-2.2% in estimated Catholic population
-1.8% in Mass attendance in October
-3.7% in baptisms
-18.5% in receptions of converts

+0.5% in marriages (but includes marriages in Anglican churches, after getting permission)
brin.ac.uk/news/2014/roman-catholic-and-other-statistics/

(The statistics are from the Pastoral Research Centre Trust. I tried to look up the stats directly, but their web server is not responding.)

 

[GangGreen]

Young people are bombarded every day with anti-religious stuff from the media, school, friends, etc. Add in the fact that religion doesn’t allow for all of the things that young people like to do (e.g., drunkenness, fornication, drugs) along with taking up their “preciousness” time with that “boring” Mass and you have the main reason why there aren’t young people in church these days. Young people grow up completely out of touch with the Church, have no real understanding of theology and as such deem it unimportant. Many of my friends say “I believe in God, but I don’t believe you have to go to church” or things of that nature. Add that to the fact that many just aren’t educated well in the faith when they’re younger, taught good habits by their parents, among other things. You get the picture.

 

[weller2]

Could the reason for the decline be due, at least in part, largely or minimally, too migrants, who temporarily settled in England Wales and have migrated elsewhere?

Polish immigrants to UK tend to stay permanently.

That said, Polish immigrants to UK are usually under 35, and in this group in Poland church attendance is also rapidly declining.

 

[weller2]

Young people are bombarded every day with anti-religious stuff from the media, school, friends, etc. Add in the fact that religion doesn’t allow for all of the things that young people like to do (e.g., drunkenness, fornication, drugs)

*And Jesus said, “Father, give me other people to work with”, and left. *

along with taking up their “preciousness” time with that “boring” Mass and you have the main reason why there aren’t young people in church these days.

And usually the main reason that the Mass is boring is the dull sermon. You cannot blame the audience for deficiencies of the speaker.

Young people grow up completely out of touch with the Church, have no real understanding of theology and as such deem it unimportant.

As someone who grew up very much in touch with the Church, and completed 12 years of Catholic religious instruction, I can attest that all theology was taught as rote learning, without explaining what the words actually mean. Sure, I could repeat the Nicene Creed, but had no idea what cosubstantial is until I was 30 and read a certain book. Funnily enough, the book had no imprimatur and was written by an atheist.

 

[GangGreen]

*And usually the main reason that the Mass is boring is the dull sermon. You cannot blame the audience for deficiencies of the speaker. *
Maybe that’s true, but not every priest is good enough to be on TV, that’s for sure. It’s why in the overly long homily thread I also made a point about how priests should be aware whether they aren’t the best speakers in the world and instead of keep their homilies short while keeping the message clear and powerful.

As someone who grew up very much in

 

[ProVobis]

As someone who grew up very much in touch with the Church, and completed 12 years of Catholic religious instruction, I can attest that all theology was taught as rote learning, without explaining what the words actually mean. Sure, I could repeat the Nicene Creed…

How can that be? Why the instruction? Wasn’t the vernacular allowed so that we all may understand everything perfectly?