Romanian married GC priests not welcome in Italy's Churches

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I have learned that the Italian Conference of Bishops have forbidden married Romanian Greek-Catholic priests from assisting in Italy’s churches.

The reason given was that this would cause “confusion” in the minds of the faithful etc.

One would have thought that the confusion has already been sown via the Latin clergy scandals . . .

What does the Vox Populi here say?

Alex
 
Alexander_Roman said:
I have learned that the Italian Conference of Bishops have forbidden married Romanian Greek-Catholic priests from assisting in Italy’s churches.

The reason given was that this would cause “confusion” in the minds of the faithful etc.
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If that is really the reason they give in 2012AD, they disappoint me greatly.

That is a tired old worn out excuse Latin bishops have been using for over 100 years, and all we can say at this late date is it amounts to an intentionally deceptive statement. It is like thought control.

They must have no idea what will really confuse their own people. They apparently do not give them enough credit for being intelligent and mature Roman Catholics.

I think the real confusion is among the bishops, they are confused as to how to explain away what everyone already knows: Eastern Catholics have married priests.
 
The existence of married priests can and does fuel opposition to priestly celibacy, though people saying “look, we already have married priests in the Catholic Church and they are fine priests, why can’t we have more of them?”

In general I think educating the faithful in the parish(es) where such a priest would assist about the canonical situation and having the Eastern priest voice his respect and support for the Latin (and Eastern, in some cases) discipline of celibacy would be a better approach to these sorts of situations. However, I’ll trust the Italian bishops to know more about this specific situation, the particular priests and the local communities, than we do and respect their judgement.
 
The Orthodox Church in America began after a series of events like this one.
That’s all I can say.

Shame on those Italians.
 
Yes by all means, return and observe your traditions, but…confine them to your Bishop’s jurisdictional area.

Double speak…
 
Jakub said:
Yes by all means, return and observe your traditions, but…confine them to your Bishop’s jurisdictional area.

Double speak…
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Not sure exactly who you are accusing of what, but it was my assumption that this decision is only in regard to priests of this particular Eastern Catholic Church assisting at Latin Rite parishes in Italy, not Eastern parishes in Italy.
 
I support the Italian bishops’ decision, and I imagine that there is more to it than we know. I may not understand it completely, but I refuse to complain about it and second-guess them.

I will not be an armchair Monday-morning Bishop/Metropolitan. 😉

Perhaps praying for them is better than what we’re doing here at EC CAF?

God, eternal shepherd, you tend your Church in many ways and rule us with love. You have chosen your servants, the Bishops of Italy, to be shepherds of your flock. Give them a spirit of courage and right judgment, a spirit of knowledge and love. By governing with fidelity those entrusted to his care, may they build your Church as a sign of salvation for the world.
 
I agree with Hesychios. I believe the bishops are giving less credit to their faithful than they ought to be. Explaining married clergy is not really that difficult. It’s an insult to folks’ intelligence to simply say, “It’ll cause confusion/scandal,” and not provide any real explanation as to why there are married priests in the Eastern Churches (or even in the Latin Church in some cases).

Most Latin Catholics that I know realize full well that celibacy within the priesthood is a discipline, not a dogma. Sadly the discipline has been so theologized and become so engrained in the Latin identity that it has almost become dogma. Education and catechesis are very much needed.

I think it is also necessary for people to realize that marriage and celibacy cannot be adequately explained apart from each other. Often a defense of celibacy in general, and priestly celibacy in particular, is given in such a way that the vocation and Sacrament of marriage is denigrated. But “in the beginning” God established the “primordial sacrament” of marriage and pronounced it to be “very good!” Celibacy as a vocation can only be understood as a good in relation to the “very good” pronounced over the primordial sacrament. If the vocation one is giving up is not seen as good, then the vocation one is embracing must not really be that great either.

In the final analysis, marriage is a Sacrament, celibacy is not. Celibacy only comes about by willfully choosing to forgo one of the Church’s Sacraments (the only Sacrament that has been called “very good” by God from the beginning) in order to give one’s life a more explicit eschatological focus - although it would be impossible to argue that marriage is not also eschatologically oriented.
 
Jakub said:
Yes by all means, return and observe your traditions, but…confine them to your Bishop’s jurisdictional area.

Double speak…
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👍

Hahahahaha! A wonderful bit of tongue-in-cheek that. :rotfl:
 
Splagchnizomai said:
I support the Italian bishops’ decision, and I imagine that there is more to it than we know. I may not understand it completely, but I refuse to complain about it and second-guess them.

I will not be an armchair Monday-morning Bishop/Metropolitan. 😉

Perhaps praying for them is better than what we’re doing here at EC CAF?

God, eternal shepherd, you tend your Church in many ways and rule us with love. You have chosen your servants, the Bishops of Italy, to be shepherds of your flock. Give them a spirit of courage and right judgment, a spirit of knowledge and love. By governing with fidelity those entrusted to his care, may they build your Church as a sign of salvation for the world.
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As was pointed out above, it was just such a decision among the Latin bishops in the U.S. that led to the formation of the Orthodox Church in America. Had the Latin bishops embraced their Eastern Catholic brethren and educated their faithful on the discipline of married clergy in the East, it is entirely possible that the OCA wouldn’t have been formed.

That being said, the OCA in recent times has been one of the most powerful voices for Orthodox unity in the U.S. as well as Catholic-Orthodox unity; illustrating once again that God is the only Being that can bring good out of evil. 👍

Many years to His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah!
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Not sure exactly who you are accusing of what, but it was my assumption that this decision is only in regard to priests of this particular Eastern Catholic Church assisting at Latin Rite parishes in Italy, not Eastern parishes in Italy.
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Actually that wasn’t it. The Latin bishop’s conference, apparently ignoring the harm this kind of action caused in the US, doesn’t want to allow married Romanian GC priests to exercise their ministry *anywhere *in Italy.

See this article for more info, orthocath.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/italian-catholic-episcopal-conference-vetoes-married-priests/

This story is over a year old, by the way.
 
Alexander_Roman said:
I have learned that the Italian Conference of Bishops have forbidden married Romanian Greek-Catholic priests from assisting in Italy’s churches.

The reason given was that this would cause “confusion” in the minds of the faithful etc.

One would have thought that the confusion has already been sown via the Latin clergy scandals . . .

What does the Vox Populi here say?

Alex
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Why were Romanian priests assisting at an Italian conference?
 
Symeon said:
Actually that wasn’t it. The Latin bishop’s conference, apparently ignoring the harm this kind of action caused in the US, doesn’t want to allow married Romanian GC priests to exercise their ministry *anywhere *in Italy.

See this article for more info, orthocath.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/italian-catholic-episcopal-conference-vetoes-married-priests/

This story is over a year old, by the way.
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I thought that was the story to which this thread was referring. God forbid the Italian bishops rehash this, unless it was to repent of a ridiculous error of judgment on their part.
 
dcointin said:
Why were Romanian priests assisting at an Italian conference?
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Romanian priests were not assisting at an Italian Conference. The Italian Conference was attempting to limit the function of married Romanian Catholic priests in Italy. I think Romanian Catholic parishes have formed in Italy as refugee parishes, seeking asylum from persecution under communist rule in Romania.

How the Roman Catholic Italian Conference of Bishops has any authority or jurisdiction to limit the function of married Romanian Catholic priest (who fall under the jurisdiction of the Romanian Catholic Conference of Bishops headed by their Major-Archbishop) in any territory whatsoever is beyond me. 🤷
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
As was pointed out above, it was just such a decision among the Latin bishops in the U.S. that led to the formation of the Orthodox Church in America. Had the Latin bishops embraced their Eastern Catholic brethren and educated their faithful on the discipline of married clergy in the East, it is entirely possible that the OCA wouldn’t have been formed.
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I am aware of this history, but there’s no way to know if it could have turned out differently had events been handled differently. This is pure speculation, and it is being used to take shots at the Italian Bishops.

I know that I am taking an unpopular stance by supporting these bishops, especially in this subforum, which is often very charitable to Roman Catholics. I do not see this charity happening so far.
 
Splagchnizomai said:
I am aware of this history, but there’s no way to know if it could have turned out differently had events been handled differently. This is pure speculation, and it is being used to take shots at the Italian Bishops.

I know that I am taking an unpopular stance by supporting these bishops, especially in this subforum, which is often very charitable to Roman Catholics. I do not see this charity happening so far.
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The fact of the matter is that these Italian Bishops do not have the authority to limit the function of married Romanian Catholic priests in Italy. Those priests fall directly under the authority of the Romanian Synod/Conference of Bishops headed by their Major-Archbishop (or Patriarch, if you prefer).

The problem here is that history is simply being repeated. There is also the problem of “double-speak,” as has been pointed out. On the one hand Rome has been calling for the Eastern Churches to return to their authentic identity. On the other hand we meet resistance coming either from Rome directly, or from Roman authorities, at every step of the way.
 
Incidentally, if memory serves me correctly this issue was resolved in favor of the married Romanian priests. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me?
 
Symeon said:
Actually that wasn’t it. The Latin bishop’s conference, apparently ignoring the harm this kind of action caused in the US, doesn’t want to allow married Romanian GC priests to exercise their ministry *anywhere *in Italy.

See this article for more info, orthocath.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/italian-catholic-episcopal-conference-vetoes-married-priests/

This story is over a year old, by the way.
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Well that’s a surprise, though part of me does sympathize with maintaining connections between territories and traditions (a more common kind of thinking in the Orthodox Church, actually), in which case married priests would under most circumstances be inappropriate in Western countries. Evidently the Italian bishops’ conference has deemed that Italy’s situation still warrants that kind of policy. As an American I won’t tell Italians whether they have to start seeing themselves as a multicultural society.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
The fact of the matter is that these Italian Bishops do not have the authority to limit the function of married Romanian Catholic priests in Italy. Those priests fall directly under the authority of the Romanian Synod/Conference of Bishops headed by their Major-Archbishop (or Patriarch, if you prefer).

The problem here is that history is simply being repeated. There is also the problem of “double-speak,” as has been pointed out. On the one hand Rome has been calling for the Eastern Churches to return to their authentic identity. On the other hand we meet resistance coming either from Rome directly, or from Roman authorities, at every step of the way.
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If they are assisting in Roman Catholic Churches, I would guess that the Italian Bishops have a right to restrict them.

Please, do not bash these Bishops with one perspective of history, or by calling them or their parishoners ignorant, or by saying they don’t know what they are doing. Pray for them and treat them charitably.
 
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