Romans 8:29-30 Exegesis

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He goes on to explain:
31What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?

32He who did not spare his own Son but handed him over for us all, how will he not also give us everything else along with him?

33Who will bring a charge against God’s chosen ones? It is God who acquits us.

34Who will condemn? It is Christ [Jesus] who died, rather, was raised, who also is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us.

35What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword?

36As it is written:

“For your sake we are being slain all the day; we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, 39 not height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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So for the sake of anyone that reads this thread, St. states this:
Romans 8:29) For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined, in conformity with the image of his Son, so that he might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
8:30 And those whom he predestined, he also called. And those whom he called, he also justified. And those whom he justified, he also glorified.
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This is known as Single Predestination I believe in Theology. And describes one of the attributes of GOD.
However St. Paul also expounds in other passages other characteristics of GOD. Like His Justice so we cannot say that we are “saved” but until our last breath has been exhaled and we have done what Jesus and His Father commanded of us. Namely execute those works that were laid out for us faithfully so that we could reap the reward. Even Jesus says this, St. Paul reiterated it.

Peace!
 
Which part are you interested in addressing, or which implication from the passages?

If you are questioning whether we can be separated from Christ, the answer is yes. It is no external thing or principality that can separate us, however. We separate ourselves from Christ through sin when we don’t choose, by grace through faith, to “love God and love…neighbor as our self.” There is plenty of Scripture that addresses this reality of sin separating Christians from God. Here’s one from the same author to the Galatians - it’s important to realize that he is speaking to saved “brothers”:19 “Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions, 21 occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
If you haven’t, I recommend you read through all of Paul’s letters asking yourself, "Does Paul ever say to saved Christians that their sins can cause them to not “inherit the kingdom of God”? Most of the time the confusion is over the word “saved”. If you are saved does that mean you are automatically going to Heaven? No, it does not. We enter into salvation in this life but can also exit it through mortal sin. Saved Christians can, during this life, choose to reject God and forfeit their inheritance in the kingdom of God. Our task is, by grace through faith, to live a holy life and to die in a state of grace (ie “saved”) so that we are then judged worthy of eternal life(cf Heb 9:27). And lastly, the question of being separated from the “love of Christ” is an entirely different issue. Nothing separates from that love as God is pure love. It is the same love that compelled him to die for us while we were yet sinners. He will continue to love us even if we reject him.
 
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Philthy said:
Which part are you interested in addressing, or which implication from the passages?
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I’m trying to find an interpretation of Romans 8:29-30 that’s consistent with Catholic theology.
 
OK, well what if I simply said it all is, how would that further the discussion? It wouldn’t.
It would be better if you identified what, exactly, in the passages you wish to have reconciled to Catholic theology.
I’ll give it a go though. Heres the first. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. That’s Catholic
Here’s the second. God has predestined some for salvation. Rom 8:29-30: And those he predestined he justified etc etc. There is some difference among Catholic theologians on the exact meaning of this and some latitude on what you believe. Note that it doesn’t say all were predestined. Catholic Encyclopedia entry on predestination says: God, owing to His infallible prescience of the future, has appointed and ordained from eternity all events occurring in time, especially those that directly proceed from, or at least are influenced by, man’s free will.
 
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More from Paul - and from Romans - on the necessity of good works (in addition to Grace and faith) for going to Heaven (ie "immortality):
By your stubbornness and impenitent heart,you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God,who will repay everyone according to his works:7eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works,

8but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.f
 
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I was referring to the part on predestination. Thank you for your candor and patience.
 
No problem. There are plenty of tracts and discussions on this I’m sure. But suffice it to say that the question of who those “those He foreknew” is remains a topic of discussion. Is it the prophets? The apostles? I’m not sure anyone knows definitively. But I don’t believe it is all Christians or , to be clear, that anyone can, during this life, apart from direct revelation from God, know that they are among those foreknown, predestined, etc. It is a knowledge only known by God. Other Catholics, and I believe Augustine was among them, believe God, because he is omniscient, does know all who will go to Heaven, the “foreknown”. But, for the reasons stated, from our perspective, we don’t know this and we must continue to strive in faith and good works to complete our mission of being judged worthy of entering eternal bliss (Heaven). What I"m saying, to the best of my knowledge and understanding, is Catholic. There are those nonCatholics that will claim that we are saved by grace alone, through faith ALONE and that good works play no part in that. Read James 2:22 I believe for a direct refutation of this. “We see that we are justified by works and not by faith alone” and he also adds that “faith, if it does not have works, is dead” and will not save you. So contrary to the “faith alone” mantra is this book that Martin Luther considered the book of James to be an “epistle of straw” and he regarded it as nonScripture. The position I’m promoting is Catholic and entirely consistent with Romans 8, and it refutes thoroughly the distorted notion that all who are “saved” in their own estimation will go to Heaven, or that those who, at one point during their earthly life, become legitimately saved will necessarily go to Heaven. I hope that helps.
 
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This passage is the HOPE of our FAITH in Jesus Christ. It is the hope for Martyrs and Saints.
1 Peter 1:2, Ephesian 1:5

No matter if and when we are persecuted for our Faith. Know Jesus Christ was the first to be persecuted and crucified and if God calls you or has predistined you for this missionary work to be a martyr or a saint, know the hope and promise from God to you, that NO death, no power in heaven or on earth can separate you from the love of God. Paul goes on to teach, the same hope and promise applies to all the baptized.
Peace be with you
 
Thanks for the Predestination tracks, but I related to the whole text of St. Paul’s salvific teaching to the Romans not specifically on the subject of Predestination.
 
Hi OriginalGabrielof12 -
My comments and shared links were intended for Julius_Ceasar. They specifically discuss this section of Scripture. The request he made for a “Catholic” understanding of these verses (8:29-30) inherently, IMO, is a request to refute the Calvinist position on Predestination with the Catholic positions. While I don’t disagree with what you posted, this is a very famous verse for apologetics and discussion and always leads to the concept of predestination, which is a relatively difficult topic and I thought the tracts would be useful to him.
 
How do you understand this passage, Julius? What is the trouble you’re having?

Then, perhaps, we can better assist…
 
The first part that talks about predestination troubles me.
 
What troubles you about predestination specifically?

And, for clarity, are you Catholic? Convert or cradle?
 
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Cradle.

I want to know whether Paul is talking about Christians in general or whether he’s going over the classical use of the term, like referring to the elect.
 
All are predestined in Christ; the Lord Jesus is the Second Adam. In His Incarnation, he united all of humanity to Himself. So He called all to Himself and justified all through His Paschal Mystery. The “glory” of the Saints in Light is the same “fire” that burns those in the darkness of hell. It’s just received and experienced differently according to one’s willful faith (or lack thereof) response.

Does that help a little?
 
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