You have to take it all as a whole. Not one verse here and another there.
I hope that people can see that I actually went through the whole chapter, and showed that my understanding of the passage en toto, not singling out any particular verse without regard for the context, shows that the passage is in regards to salvation, and that salvation is determined by God’s election, not on our freewill or good works.
The Father wants ALL men to repent. He wants ALL men to receive salvation offered by Christ (1 timothy 4:10, 2 Peter 3:9).
Although these verses offered are not in the same passage and in the same context, I will respond to them – I also hope that someone will respond with an exegesis of Romans 9, which I have already offered.
*1 Tim 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. *
Notice that this verse does not say anything regarding election, or that we are saved because anything that we do. Therefore, I will await a reason why this verse is relevant to the topic at hand.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The context is that St Peter is writing to the beloved, and encouraging them to be patient for the promise. God is longsuffering to
us-ward, and the ‘any’ is in relation to the us-ward which precedes it – God is longsuffering in regards to His church, and the next phrase explains why – because He is long-suffering for our repentance, not willing that we perish. Notice that the context is in regards to the beloved, and that this verse does not deal with what St Paul writes in Romans 9.
*1 Tim 2:
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7
For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. *
Remember the context, the Jews had been the people og God for centuries, and now the Gentiles were being welcomed into God’s family. We see in verses 4,5, and 6, that God is the head over all, both Jews and Gentiles, which is made clear by verse 7 – St Paul was appointed not only for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. (And he was not lying).
We do indeed have to choose God. He gives us free will. That does not preclude God from having already known our choice. He is outside of time. So yes, God knows our choice and already knows our ‘election.’ Our election still relies on us making the choice.
I understand that this is the Roman Catholic position, but I was specifically addressing St Paul and Romans 9.
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
- 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. *
*21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, *
Please note, that in my earlier posts, I have gone through the chapter from verse 4 onwards, verse by verse. There I have learned from St Paul that not all who are of Israel, are of Israel, but only those of the promise, and it is only the children of the promise which are the children of God(v4-8).
I then learned what the promise was, and that being a child of the promise depends upon God, and St Paul specifically says it is not bsed upon our works(v9-13)
Soon after, St Paul asks himself the question, whether this fact that it depends on God, and irrespective of our works, means God is unrighteous(v14) St Paul answers his own question, and teaches us we have no right to answer bacj to God, for we are His creatures, and it is not upon our will, or our workds that we are the elected(v15-21)
St Paul then teaches that God has made some for mercy and glory, and others for wrath, dishonour and destruction(v21-23)
Then, I learned that it was not not for the Jews alone from whom God chooses, but from the Gentiles as well.(v24-33)
kind regards
