Rome approves new English Mass trans for US

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puzzleannie

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I’m sure I am not the first to see this, but don’t see a thread yet
comments?
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=59877

part of me just sighs, another set of changes, another adjustment in what to teach kids and RCIA candidates, and hope they will give us some tools to explain the changes
 
I saw it on another thread somewhere else as I was surfing. I am encouraged that the new words will actually follow the Latin. “And also with you” and “We believe” have grated on my nerves for decades. I am also hopeful that the new liturgy will sound more graceful and less clunky.
 
Thank God, I don’t know why it was so hard to translate to the correct words the first time.
 
Hijikata said:
Thank God, I don’t know why it was so hard to translate to the correct words the first time.
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I’m glad they re-translated it too. I guess the original translators weren’t happy with just being allowed to translate, they wanted to write their own mass specially designed for the sensibilities of the english-speaking person 😉
 
puzzleannie said:
I’m sure I am not the first to see this, but don’t see a thread yet
comments?
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=59877

part of me just sighs, another set of changes, another adjustment in what to teach kids and RCIA candidates, and hope they will give us some tools to explain the changes
Click to expand...
These relatively minor changes to the Mass, however, help correct several imprecisions in the translation that can be confusing and DO matter.

Remember… one of the major sticking points between the Catholic and the Orthodox is over a SINGLE WORD in Greek… “filoque”.
 
Rolltide said:
These relatively minor changes to the Mass, however, help correct several imprecisions in the translation that can be confusing and DO matter.

Remember… one of the major sticking points between the Catholic and the Orthodox is over a SINGLE WORD in Greek… “filoque”.
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Not in Greek, in Latin, and it is two words: “et filioque” (and the son).

Whole raft of threads on that issue over in the EC forum.
 
Aramis said:
Not in Greek, in Latin, and it is two words: “et filioque” (and the son).

Whole raft of threads on that issue over in the EC forum.
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You are indeed correct, my mistake (although my original point still stands).
 
I’m glad to see that the Words of Institution have been corrected! 😃
 
Neil_Anthony said:
I’m glad they re-translated it too. I guess the original translators weren’t happy with just being allowed to translate, they wanted to write their own mass specially designed for the sensibilities of the english-speaking person 😉
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The struggle went deeper than this and well beyond any translation problems unique to English. It wasn’t a battle over what the words are but what some thought they ought to be. This is the sentence that captured the issue for me (and that I found most encouraging):

*“the translation, which had already won the approval of the US bishops’ conference, despite strong protests from some liberal prelates.”

*Ender
 
Hijikata said:
Thank God, I don’t know why it was so hard to translate to the correct words the first time.
Click to expand...
That is because the current form flows smoother with the English language. When I hear “…and in your spirit”, it sounds very forced and out of place, the order of mass hits a bump when that is used. I have only heard the current way of doing it.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
That is because the current form flows smoother with the English language. When I hear “…and in your spirit”, it sounds very forced and out of place, the order of mass hits a bump when that is used. I have only heard the current way of doing it.
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Well, there’s where your problem lies…you are mistranslating it yourself…here is the part you seem to be talking about:

When the priest says, “The Lord be with you,” the faithful respond, “And with your spirit,” rather than simply, “And also with you.”

Seems to flow pretty well to me…
 
Ilroy said:
Well, there’s where your problem lies…you are mistranslating it yourself…here is the part you seem to be talking about:

When the priest says, “The Lord be with you,” the faithful respond, “And with your spirit,” rather than simply, “And also with you.”

Seems to flow pretty well to me…
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Thanks for the correction, it still seems disjointed, the word “spirit” just seems to add a gap between the priest and people. Why are the people responding to the priest’s spirit and not the priest himself with the current form? That will get many heads in the pew shaking as it seems out of place. I view the current form as an modern change that makes logical sense since the current mass form is different than the old form which the Latin translation came from. The old form was made for the old form of mass, not the current form of mass, it feels like a square peg in a round hole.🤷
 
I am pleased with the changes. I particularly like the mea culpa change. That phrase stands that even a stilted way of talking has a way of sounding smooth over time.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Thanks for the correction, it still seems disjointed, the word “spirit” just seems to add a gap between the priest and people. Why are the people responding to the priest’s spirit and not the priest himself with the current form? That will get many heads in the pew shaking as it seems out of place. I view the current form as an modern change that makes logical sense since the current mass form is different than the old form which the Latin translation came from. The old form was made for the old form of mass, not the current form of mass, it feels like a square peg in a round hole.🤷
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Personally, I like the change. It helps remind us that the exchange is not some casual greeting…iow…“howdy parishioners…howdy father.”

I went to a conference two weekends ago and attended a 1-hour class regarding the changes (more theory than substance though) and the priest mentioned priests who would say, “Peace be with each and every one of you.” The priest teaching the course said he always wants to respond “and with each and every one of you, father.” 😛

He also mentioned the changes to the Confiteor, which is much better, although most “modern” parishes don’t say the Confiteor in my experience. Usually, you will find it with priests who are more traditionally minded. Not sure why…perhaps those who are more progressively minded don’t like to publically confess that they have sinned through their own fault. :whistle: 😛 😃
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
That is because the current form flows smoother with the English language. When I hear “…and in your spirit”, it sounds very forced and out of place, the order of mass hits a bump when that is used. I have only heard the current way of doing it.
Click to expand...
Even though you have only heard “and also with you”, that doesn’t mean it is correct.

It isn’t.

The words in Latin are *et cum spiritu tuo. *It translates into “and with your spirit”. This has long been part of the Latin Mass, both the Tridentine and the Novus Ordo. The current English translation of the Novus Ordo is lousy and this is one example.
 
what is now the “accurate translation” is not “changes”. They are “corrections”.

What has been being said for the past (almost) 40 years were ACTUAL CHANGES in the words of the Mass.
 
For years I’ve had to listen to liberals changing the words of the mass when they respond in the pews… for example changing ‘His’ to ‘God’s’ in the prayers to avoid referring to God as a male.

I had the idea that I should start responding “And with your spirit” right now, before it becomes official.

Of course, I won’t do that, because it would be disrespectful. But it’s fun to think about! 😃
 
“And with your spirit” is how it’s said in the Divine Liturgy (Eastern rites); so in a way this brings East and West just a leeeettle bit closer. 👍
 
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