Rome approves new English Mass trans for US

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Thank God, I don’t know why it was so hard to translate to the correct words the first time.

Peter Kreeft noted in his Screwtape-inspired *The Snakebite Letters *we have so many limp-wristed liturgies because we have so many limp-wristed liturgists–the discipline was taken over by the “lavender mafia” (the liberal Andrew Greeley of all people for that phrase).

Not to mention, we abandoned the Duoay Rhiems for the flat, dull, pendantic NAB

 

[Brendan]

Thanks for the correction, it still seems disjointed, the word “spirit” just seems to add a gap between the priest and people. Why are the people responding to the priest’s spirit and not the priest himself with the current form? :

Because it not the priest himself that is saying it, but rather Christ Himself.

A priest at Mass is in persona Christi, it is Christ acting through the body of the priest.

So this is an emphasis that it is Christ Himself that is offering us peace and we wish it back to Christ, who is acting through Christ.

Here is a bit more from the Diocese of Toledo on the subject.

As one of the U.S. bishops working on the new translations writes: “Our current translation might seem more personal and friendly, but that’s the problem. The spirit referred to in the Latin is the spirit of Christ who comes to a priest when he is ordained, as St. Paul explained to Timothy. In other words, the people are saying in their response that Christ as head of the Church is the head of the liturgical assembly, no matter who the particular priest celebrant may be. That is a statement of faith, a statement distorted by transforming it into an exchange of personal greetings.”

toledodiocese.org/content/view/198/169/

So yes, it does imply a ‘gap’ because there IS a gap, both between us and the Minsterial priesthood and an infinite gap between us and the Divine Person who is granting his peace to us.

Your response showed very clearly exactly what damage the current translation has done to a the faithful having a full understanding of the Mass, and the critical need for a revised translation accompanied with catechesis.

 

[TheGreenO]

I would rather be saying the what the Latin Mass translated correctly says not another’s view of what they think it should be. And to those who don’t like Latin added back into the Mass because they don’t know what it means…take some time and learn it! When I hear older Catholics complaining about it, I feel like…I won’t go into it, but it’s disheartening. Maybe using the Latin is getting people to be more involved and practicing their faith. It pushes them to understand more and more of the beauty of the mysteries of the Church.

Blow the dust off, clean out the cobwebs, and renew your life in Christ and His Church.

Sorry, I will get off my soap box now

I think this is a great time of excitement and “change” in the Church and will hopefully get more people involved/excited/inflamed with God’s love…

 

[Rolltide]

Here is the complete text of the new Ordinary of the Mass in English, courtesy of the USCCB. Scroll down to the bottom of the page. You will need a PDF reader:

usccb.org/liturgy/missalformation/index.shtml

Here is an interesting article about instructions given on the new Ordinary of the Mass from the Congregation of Divine Worship:

wdtprs.com/blog/2008/08/card-arinzes-letter-to-card-george-with-approval-of-the-ordo-missae-translation/

 

[bkovacs]

They should have added the prayer to Saint Michael to the end of the Mass. One other thing that concerns me will be the laities role in the rubrics. Knowing the liberal Bishops and theologians that are probably working on this. Will we still have more extra ordinary eucharistic ministers that you can shake a stick at, tons of altar girls, and guitar bands. Will all this be addressed as well?.

 

[rlg94086]

They should have added the prayer to Saint Michael to the end of the Mass. One other thing that concerns me will be the laities role in the rubrics. Knowing the liberal Bishops and theologians that are probably working on this. Will we still have more extra ordinary eucharistic ministers that you can shake a stick at, tons of altar girls, and guitar bands. Will all this be addressed as well?.

Hi bkovacs,

This is only about the translation of the Latin into English - nothing more. See Rolltide’s link (thank you btw Rolltide ).

My family will have an easy transition. We attend a Mass where most of the common prayers are in Latin. The only changes in English for us will be “and with your spirit,” the Confiteor, and the “Lord I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof…” We will work on learning the new translations to the Gloria and Credo at home.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

When I read about the changes that they are making, my immediate thought was, what a waste of time, money and energy!

“with your spirit,” comes from ancient language, which makes no sense to anyone in todays world. Your spirit is “you,” so
“also with you,” was accurate.

The other one that looks like they attempted to appease feminist, is when the priest says, “Let us give thanks to the Lord our God,” the people respond, “It is right to give Him thanks and praise.” Liberal priest would often change Him to God. The new text just cuts it short with, “It is right and just.”

They’ve also changed the Gloria and Lamb of God, and we won’t be able to sing these parts until composers write new hymns for them.

Jim

 

[JaMc]

Did “consubstantial” make it back into the creed?

I don’t believe so - the U.S.C.C.B. thinks we are too stupid to understand what “consubstantial” means, since it has more than two syllables…

 

[rlg94086]

I don’t believe so - the U.S.C.C.B. thinks we are too stupid to understand what “consubstantial” means, since it has more than two syllables…

Actually, it did. I don’t always agree with our bishops’ decisions, but there is no need to denigrate the USCCB in such a way. This is especially true in regards to the translation, since it was done by an international team of translators. There are five nations who speak English. The other four countries approved the translation before the USCCB.

At the end of the homily, the Symbol or Profession of Faith or Creed, when prescribed, is

sung or said:
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
At the words that follow up to and including

and became man, all bow.

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate
of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
And one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[rlg94086]

When I read about the changes that they are making, my immediate thought was, what a waste of time, money and energy!

“with your spirit,” comes from ancient language, which makes no sense to anyone in todays world. Your spirit is “you,” so
“also with you,” was accurate.

The other one that looks like they attempted to appease feminist, is when the priest says, “Let us give thanks to the Lord our God,” the people respond, “It is right to give Him thanks and praise.” Liberal priest would often change Him to God. The new text just cuts it short with, “It is right and just.”

They’ve also changed the Gloria and Lamb of God, and we won’t be able to sing these parts until composers write new hymns for them.

Jim

This isn’t a matter of political correctness, and it wasn’t done to appease feminists. If it was, then every non-orthodox Catholic’s favorite change (from “us men” to just “us”) would have been dropped - it’s not. The previous translations were not done well. This was done on behalf of all English speakers. The USCCB had more objections/difficulty with the new changes than the other English-speaking countries. I’m glad it is now approved.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Actually, it did. I don’t always agree with our bishops’ decisions, but there is no need to denigrate the USCCB in such a way. This is especially true in regards to the translation, since it was done by an international team of translators. There are five nations who speak English. The other four countries approved the translation before the USCCB.

I believe in one God,

 

[rlg94086]

KathleenElsie:

Now tell me how to get our priest to use the word MEN and I will be quite happy.

Sad, isn’t it?

 

[jc-servant]

They’ve also changed the Gloria and Lamb of God, and we won’t be able to sing these parts until composers write new hymns for them.

Jim

There are Catholic composers who were given the proposed “new” translation of all mass parts many months ago. My choir was asked to sing some choral arrangements of the new mass parts for one composer while they were being tweaked in 2007. They all sounded lovely. In fact, I found them much nicer than anything using the text currently in use. As far as I know, they have already been submitted for approval for use in the liturgy in anticipation of approval of the text.

 

[JaMc]

Actually, it did. I don’t always agree with our bishops’ decisions, but there is no need to denigrate the USCCB in such a way. This is especially true in regards to the translation, since it was done by an international team of translators. There are five nations who speak English. The other four countries approved the translation before the USCCB.

I did not mean to denegrate the USCCB, but I did catch Bp. Trautman’s comments on the EWTN broadcast, and found his statements to be somewhat insulting to everyone’s intelligence (there is a whole other thread on this, so I will not re-hash it here). I do believe, though, that the new English translation is certainly a step in the right direction, and I am glad they did put “consubstantial” into the creed - I am also glad that it is, once again, the “Credo” (I believe), rather than the “Credemus” (“we believe”).

 

[rlg94086]

I did not mean to denegrate the USCCB, but I did catch Bp. Trautman’s comments on the EWTN broadcast, and found his statements to be somewhat insulting to everyone’s intelligence (there is a whole other thread on this, so I will not re-hash it here). I do believe, though, that the new English translation is certainly a step in the right direction, and I am glad they did put “consubstantial” into the creed -** I am also glad that it is, once again, the “Credo” (I believe), rather than the “Credemus” (“we believe”).**

 

[TheGreenO]

I am really looking forward to these changes. It will definitely get people to participate in the Mass more. And maybe even outside of the Sunday obligation?

 

[TheGreenO]

At the end of the homily, the Symbol or Profession of Faith or Creed, when prescribed, is

sung or said:
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
At the words that follow up to and including

and became man, all bow.

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate
of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
And one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I guess I will have to get a new Creed t-shirt, my current on will be outdated…forums.catholic-questions.org/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

 

[Nohome]

As to these changes, science is yet to devise an instrument that can measure how little I care.

Nohome

 

[drforjc]

As to these changes, science is yet to devise an instrument that can measure how little I care.

Nohome

Yet you cared enough to post

 

[Nohome]

part of me just sighs, another set of changes, another adjustment in what to teach kids and RCIA candidates, and hope they will give us some tools to explain the changes

Imagine if the clock at work was replaced by one with hands and a dial that operates counterclockwise. At first you would be confused. By 10 AM you would realize that what was once quarter to is now quarter past. By the end of the day, you would question why clocks ever turned clockwise in the first place.

This will be the single biggest nonevent in church history.

Nohome