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celluloid
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Shouldn’t public services be given just a little credit?
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austenbosten
Guest
I agree I can’t believe how many gallons of Obama-Kool-Aide some people are willing to drink. You risked your money, you lost the sleep, you shed your sweat, blood and tears, you sacrificed your weekends and evenings home, you missed out time with your family, you came up with the idea, you did all the work…but somebody else built that.
Please folks
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4602324460307346&id=ad9cc4020a357fab99d8653f0c214859
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Jeanne_S
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Add to that,your quote from Wimpy,pretty much describes the mindset of this administration and it’s approach to spending money it doesn’t have…I agree I can’t believe how many gallons of Obama-Kool-Aide some people are willing to drink. You risked your money, you lost the sleep, you shed your sweat, blood and tears, you sacrificed your weekends and evenings home, you missed out time with your family, you came up with the idea, you did all the work…but somebody else built that.
Please folks
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4602324460307346&id=ad9cc4020a357fab99d8653f0c214859
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Rich_Olszewski
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Are you seriously suggesting that “every man is an island,” that his endeavors are his and his alone? That he might not have gotten tax incentives from some level of government or not have built on or improved someone else’s ideas, that he might not have benefited by nearby transportation for his goods such as a rail line or decent highway? I myself reject such a Randian view of personal success.I agree I can’t believe how many gallons of Obama-Kool-Aide some people are willing to drink. You risked your money, you lost the sleep, you shed your sweat, blood and tears, you sacrificed your weekends and evenings home, you missed out time with your family, you came up with the idea, you did all the work…but somebody else built that.
Please folks.
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LisaA
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Rush Limbaugh is an ENTERTAINER, not a journalist. Despite Democrat claims that he rules the Republican party, the reality is that he is like a Jon Stewart rather than Tim Russert.Why should they? Are we to have a Political Correctness Police ordering that equal coverage be given to each candidate? Rush Limbaugh, e.g., is openly pro-Romney, and the American public doesn’t mind that, either.
I don’t know if people are simply foolish to equate the two or if it simply serves their purpose to claim that talk show pundits equalize out the entire alphabet soup TV stations along with Chicken Noodle News and MessNBC. The latter two claim to be balanced but are not. Rush doesn’t claim to be balanced, nor does he claim to be a hard news journalist.
Lisa
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Rich_Olszewski
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Okay, he was not a good example, and I was wrong to use him that way (I haven’t listened to Mr. Limbaugh since he had his television show way back when) but there are conservatives who accept him as very nearly the Voice of Conservatism. (At least as far as I can see.)
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LisaA
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No one is saying don’t give them any credit, we are saying that since all have access to public works, public schools, public parks, public roads, and even PBS, the DIFFERENCE between a Steve Jobs and Joe Schmoe living in his parents’ basement drinking Red Bull and playing all night sessions of World of Warcraft is that Steve Jobs took his God given talents, his work ethic, and his ideas and DID something.
Just think about your graduating class at high school. Presumably the kids pretty much had the same access to public facilities. Some succeeded in building businesses, becoming professionals, raising families, and making a difference. Some did not.
To give credit to roads and bridges for individual effort, initiative and follow through is simply ridiculous.
I think this argument plays into the overall Obama focus on the Victim Culture. If you succeed, it’s not because you did something right, it’s because someone paid road taxes and filled potholes. But conversely this gives those who sat back, relaxed and let others pull the load a good excuse for their lack of success…they are VICTIMS, not losers. Sadly I think there are a lot of people who buy this wad of baloney. I just hope they are also too lazy to vote
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scipio337
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Okay, but Limbaugh is a pundit/commentator. He never has, and never will pose himself as some type of unbaised source.
I think the complaint that the lines between the “News” sections and “Editorial” sections are pretty much non-existant.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Good for him, but not everyone, even with ambition has the talent and ability to succeed. Senator Wagner (a good Catholic BTW) of New York back in the 50s was being congratulated on his success. He said that it was mostly luck because there were thousands of men better qualified than he who simply hadn’t the opportunities he was afforded.
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Rich_Olszewski
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True, but that doesn’t go for a lot of his supporters - the ones who proudly wear T-shirts saying “Dittohead.”
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austenbosten
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And I reject such a Marxist-collectivist view of credit for work.
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 1:1[/BIBLEDRB]…who else made that possible? or is that a radical Randian view of crediting work?
[BIBLEDRB]Matt 16:18[/BIBLEDRB]
Jesus built His Church…not Caesar? is this a radical Randian view?
But let’s take this logical fallacy from the opposite viewpoint, is failure credited to others? If someone burns down a business does that mean “the roads and bridges made that happen too?” Are you to blame if someone gets poisoned at Carl’s Jr because of the “roads 'n bridges” you paid for with your tax dollars? If the entrepreneur didn’t build that business, then surely the arsonist didn’t burn the business down.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Well, good for you. We needn’t all march in lockstep, neither mine nor yours.
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LisaA
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Back up Rich. I know you read my previous post because you clipped out part of it. One more time with feeling now: No one said that ‘every man is an island,’ but conversely somehow the reality that some people use the opportunities provided by this wonderful country to build a business and some do not seems to be lost in the Obama/Warren “you didn’t build that” mantra.
As I said, we are born or develop God given talents. We are blessed to live in the USA. We do have decent roads, public schools, public broadcasting
. But the reality is that people are different and some of them use their talents and blessings and some do not.In this country I believe we should work to provide as much equality of opportunity as possible. It is truly heartbreaking to me to know that children go to dreadful schools, grow up in horribly dysfunctional families, get involved with evil people who destroy their bodies with drugs and other deviant behaviors. No matter how good the roads and bridges are, people are sometimes dealt a bad hand. So there is where I think we should focus, not on tearing down those who have succeeded by over taxing, over regulating and demonizing them.
Lisa
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celluloid
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I agree that’s ridiculous, which is why I think Obama was referring to preexisting facilities built with public money, ones that were not built solely by individual entrepreneurs, and he was not speaking of the individual accomplishments of individuals. I think Obama knows about individual responsibility, having succeeded quite well in his own life without any particular advantage.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Indeed! Or maybe don’t know how to play the four aces they’re already holding.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Think of John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, James J. Hill, James Fisk, Edward Harriman, Jay Gould, and Cornelius Vanderbilt. They were Captains of Industry to folks who thought somewhat along the lines that you seem to, but “Robber Barons” to most of the rest of America. There were good reasons to regulate and demonize them.
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He_Man
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Because it’s the word used by Ayn Rand and Romney’s opinion is very much like hers. I assumed you had read her work and were also a fan of her philosophy since much of your posting seems supportive of it.
Honestly, I find the whole thing hilarious, it’s my day off and i’ve been enjoying forums on both sides all evening. All the outrage and defiance! They don’t call the campaign period “the silly season” for nothing.
It’ll all be over in a couple more months, and my day to day life won’t change a bit no matter who wins and chances ae most other people’s won’t either.
- I’ve never read Ayn Rand. I did read Faith of the Fallen, by Terry Goodkind, which was supposedly a pitch for her objectivist philosophy couched in a fantasy setting, but I read that as part of a long series in the Sword of Truth novels, not as a political guide.
- You could vote for the interests of making other people’s lives better, you know? Either candidate may not affect you (somehow I doubt that), but try thinking of someone other than yourself. That’s what you liberals preach, anyway. Shared responsibility, and all the stuff.
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LisaA
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Unfortunately you either didn’t hear the entire speech or didn’t notice where Obama changed directions. He said “If you had a business, you didn’t build that.” Was he referring to roads and bridges? No.
Further please tell me how roads and bridges mean the difference between someone with personal initiative and someone who doesn’t make the effort? We all have access to the same public infrastructure and indeed it’s easier to build a business in the USA with our paved roads than in Afghanistan with it’s dusty trails. But not everyone succeeds in this country despite its many blessings and opportunities.
Further not everyone is dealt a good hand in the brains, health, and energy department. I get that. But why does Obama seem to always try to demean individual success rather than see this as the opportunity to bring everyone up? How many jobs and how much wealth are created by a Bill Gates or a Steve Jobs (great name huh?)? To give credit to roads and bridges for their success is not only petty, it’s demoralizing. We should applaud success and try to inspire everyone to take the opportunities given to them. Instead Obama focuses on blaming others, excusing failures as society’s fault, and not giving people the opportunity for earned success.
I just don’t understand the appeal of his argument
Lisa
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Rich_Olszewski
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LisaA
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Uh Rich, where have you been for the last hundred years? This is like those who start talking about the Crusades when someone points out Islamist extremism. Can we move on to oh say the 21st Century? That’s what Obama is dealing with right now, not Andrew Carnegie
Lisa
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