Ron Paul Thread

[exnihilo]

I see no difference in his attitude toward this country, than those on the far left. He loves the Constitution, but thinks this nation is garbage. He never stops preaching about how horrible this nation is, and his deep hatred for the USA is so clear.

I honestly dont understand how you’ve come to this conclusion. Ron Paul points out the many problems of this nation. Do you not think we are in a seriously bad spot these days? His solution is to go back to what we were which he believes to be good. The left wants to turn America into something it never was. They are seeking some ideal that has never existed in the world. Dr. Paul is a realist and thinks the world is and will be imperfect but can be made better. His transformation is a restoration. He loves what America was and could be again. At his age, and given what I think is a very humble ego, I dont think he is enduring the rigors of another presidential bid because he hates America.

I think we should all hate what America has BECOME. A nation that commits mass murder on the unborn, promotes homosexuality, is in the continued process of de-Christianizing itself, embraces globalism and military aggression, accepts a de-facto government’s destruction of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, while a controlled, corrupt and thoroughly untrustworthy newsmedia fails to report on anyone of this.

Amen to that. I dont expect perfection in this world and I know the past was not without problems. But what America is now is shameful (and ultimately all systems exist by the will of the people).

 

[irishpatrick]

Well then, if what Ron Paul believes is hate of the USA, I guess I hate the USA too.

Okay–good thing to know.

 

[irishpatrick]

I think we should all hate what America has BECOME. A nation that commits mass murder on the unborn, promotes homosexuality, is in the continued process of de-Christianizing itself, embraces globalism and military aggression, accepts a de-facto government’s destruction of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, while a controlled, corrupt and thoroughly untrustworthy newsmedia fails to report on anyone of this. America elected Barack Obama president, so I’d say right there, that’s a pretty good indication this country is morally bankrupt.

NO. IMO, we should hate certain things this nation does. However, it remains the greatest nation on earth, and easily the greatest in history. I get sick of people rejecting the idea that this nation is exceptional. If we are not called to be exceptional, than all the bad things we do should be perfectly acceptable. It is the fact that we all know that the USA is supposed to be (and is) and cut above the rest, that we so much want us to do the right things across the board.

I believe that Romney really loves this country. I believe that Santorum really loves this country. I believe that Gingrich really loves this country (though his inability to control his anger is a huge problem). I believe all three of those men believe in American Exceptionalism.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

NO. IMO, we should hate certain things this nation does. However, it remains the greatest nation on earth, and easily the greatest in history. I get sick of people rejecting the idea that this nation is exceptional. If we are not called to be exceptional, than all the bad things we do should be perfectly acceptable. It is the fact that we all know that the USA is supposed to be (and is) and cut above the rest, that we so much want us to do the right things across the board.

I believe that Romney really loves this country. I believe that Santorum really loves this country. I believe that Gingrich really loves this country (though his inability to control his anger is a huge problem). I believe all three of those men believe in American Exceptionalism.

Define American Exceptionalism for me. I have come to believe that it has morphed from its original meaning of “we are exceptional because of our system of limited government and free market economics” to “we are better than you and we are going to try to turn you into us”. We have gone from being the “shining city on the hill” to the nosy neighbor who is always poking into your business and trying to “fix” you.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Okay–good thing to know.

At least I don’t delude myself into thinking that we are not what we think we are…anymore.

 

[irishpatrick]

Define American Exceptionalism for me. I have come to believe that it has morphed from its original meaning of “we are exceptional because of our system of limited government and free market economics” to “we are better than you and we are going to try to turn you into us”. We have gone from being the “shining city on the hill” to the nosy neighbor who is always poking into your business and trying to “fix” you.

Scott,

You seem to have declared yourself to be in the Ron Paul camp. There is no point, with this particular topic, for us to discuss these matters. I do look forward to speaking with you regarding other topics.

 

[rlg94086]

Scott,

You seem to have declared yourself to be in the Ron Paul camp. There is no point, with this particular topic, for us to discuss these matters. I do look forward to speaking with you regarding other topics.

Personally, I like discussing things with people who think I’m delusional. It gives you a certain…freedom.

 

[lothariorowe]

Scott,

You seem to have declared yourself to be in the Ron Paul camp. There is no point, with this particular topic, for us to discuss these matters. I do look forward to speaking with you regarding other topics.

So far, you haven’t listed a single reference to your ranting - and now you’re trying to bow out as if you have been the only one putting forth rational arguments rooted in sound logic?

People are hilarious.

American exceptionalism?! That sounds absurd just saying it - you are like the Lakers fan that expects to be treated like a national champion because he’s a fan of the team that won. You’re not a national champion, you’re an accountant. Get over it, and stop trying to elect cheerleaders to make you feel better by telling you “oh you’re just awesome.”

Are you actually an American hero? Have you been to war? Because Ron Paul has more donations from active duty military than all other candidates combined.

Oh, and his position about what caused 9/11? That position was taken directly out of the official 9/11 Commission Report - have you read it? Oh, no? Well you should, so you can develop more substantive arguments next time.

 

[irishpatrick]

So far, you haven’t listed a single reference to your ranting - and now you’re trying to bow out as if you have been the only one putting forth rational arguments rooted in sound logic?

People are hilarious.

American exceptionalism?! That sounds absurd just saying it - you are like the Lakers fan that expects to be treated like a national champion because he’s a fan of the team that won. You’re not a national champion, you’re an accountant. Get over it, and stop trying to elect cheerleaders to make you feel better by telling you “oh you’re just awesome.”

Are you actually an American hero? Have you been to war? Because Ron Paul has more donations from active duty military than all other candidates combined.

Oh, and his position about what caused 9/11? That position was taken directly out of the official 9/11 Commission Report - have you read it? Oh, no? Well you should, so you can develop more substantive arguments next time.

Sometimes people make mistakes, and I made a mistake by entering this thread. I have to constantly remind myself of the nature of many people who support Ron Paul–I remembered that after reading a couple posts and I decided there was no point in taking this any further. You can search my posts across this board, I am neither weak of opinion, nor weak of support for my opinions–yet sometimes there just is no point because I know minds will not and cannot change (some of your comments simply bolster my view).

Take care.

 

[exnihilo]

NO. IMO, we should hate certain things this nation does. However, it remains the greatest nation on earth, and easily the greatest in history. I get sick of people rejecting the idea that this nation is exceptional. If we are not called to be exceptional, than all the bad things we do should be perfectly acceptable. It is the fact that we all know that the USA is supposed to be (and is) and cut above the rest, that we so much want us to do the right things across the board.

By what criteria do you judge the greatest nation on Earth and the history of the world? I’ve traveled to many countries and studied history. Despite that I do not feel I’m in any position to judge whether this is in fact the greatest nation in the history of the world. In my opinion there is simply too much information required. I’m quite convinced that I have more knowledge about other countries and history than the average person, who cant find Iraq on a map (I’m not implying you here but the general population), and yet declares this to be the greatest nation.

When I’ve traveled to other countries I’ve not noticed a sudden loss of freedom. In other countries I often had some freedoms that I do not have here. Western European countries had the comforts I am accustomed to at home. So I’m not sure what makes the US really exceptional.

But if America is exceptional than I really feel for us. We all know the principle to whom much has been given much will be required. If we have been graced than our decisions, particularly what we’ve done with the wealth we accumulated, will cause us to be judged much more harshly than others. I pray for mercy.

 

[Ghosty]

What makes our nation exceptional is our Constitution and core values like liberty, Common Law, and Christian morality. All of these things are being trampled by our government day by day. Ron Paul is the one candidate up there who actually defends these all of these principles and considers them truly valuable and exceptional. Our nation is not exceptional simply for being called America, it is exceptional because of its foundations.

If you truly believe in American Exceptionalism then do not vote for anyone who supports the NDAA, the Patriot Act, corporate and bank bail-outs, and undeclared wars of aggression. All of those things run contrary to what has made our country exceptional, and all of those things are supported, in part or in full, but the other candidates in the race.

Peace and God bless!

 

[lothariorowe]

Sometimes people make mistakes, and I made a mistake by entering this thread. I have to constantly remind myself of the nature of many people who support Ron Paul–I remembered that after reading a couple posts and I decided there was no point in taking this any further. You can search my posts across this board, I am neither weak of opinion, nor weak of support for my opinions–yet sometimes there just is no point because I know minds will not and cannot change (some of your comments simply bolster my view).

Take care.

Clearly you misunderstand me. I have no interest in opinions. I’m interested in objective truth and facts - if you have any to share on this issue. Otherwise we’re arguing whether blue is the best color.

And please don’t resort to the whole ad hominem “I can’t debate with people of your nature” cop out. Either accept your incapable of formulating sound logical objections to Ron Paul, or put forth some. Perhaps it’s not as easy to levy attacks on Ron Paul when you’re required to be factual and specific.

 

[rlg94086]

Clearly you misunderstand me. I have no interest in opinions. I’m interested in objective truth and facts - if you have any to share on this issue. Otherwise we’re arguing whether blue is the best color.

And please don’t resort to the whole ad hominem “I can’t debate with people of your nature” cop out. Either accept your incapable of formulating sound logical objections to Ron Paul, or put forth some. Perhaps it’s not as easy to levy attacks on Ron Paul when you’re required to be factual and specific.

Fact: Ron Paul has no chance of winning the nomination. The majority of voters don’t believe he is an acceptable candidate.

Fact: Ron Paul’s “back-up plan” is to have a chance to speak at the convention and influence the Republican Party platform

Fact: Ron Paul has said he has no interest in running as a third party candidate. Oh wait, he’s waffled on that…not sure which of his statements to believe…

Those are enough facts to lead most conservatives to support another GOP candidate.

 

[irishpatrick]

Clearly you misunderstand me. I have no interest in opinions. I’m interested in objective truth and facts - if you have any to share on this issue. Otherwise we’re arguing whether blue is the best color.

And please don’t resort to the whole ad hominem “I can’t debate with people of your nature” cop out. Either accept your incapable of formulating sound logical objections to Ron Paul, or put forth some. Perhaps it’s not as easy to levy attacks on Ron Paul when you’re required to be factual and specific.

I do not make statements lightly, nor do I form opinions lightly or without research–this stuff is too important to take lightly. I just know where a conversation we might have would go…and I see no point in wasting our time.

Can I provide facts? Yes, of course. Do I desire to do so with you? No, not even a little bit.

Reason for not wanting to discuss this with you: I know anything I post to you will be a complete waste of my time.

Take care.

 

[lothariorowe]

Fact: Ron Paul has no chance of winning the nomination. The majority of voters don’t believe he is an acceptable candidate.

Fact: Ron Paul’s “back-up plan” is to have a chance to speak at the convention and influence the Republican Party platform

Fact: Ron Paul has said he has no interest in running as a third party candidate. Oh wait, he’s waffled on that…not sure which of his statements to believe…

Those are enough facts to lead most conservatives to support another GOP candidate.

Really? Really? Those are your facts? Are you aware of the definition of “fact”? Have you been watching too much FOX?

A fact is something indisputable, like: Ron Paul has received more donations from active duty military than all other candidates combined - with specific and current numbers available to objectively confirm said fact.

Or perhaps: Ron Paul came in 3rd place in the Iowa Caucuses, just 3-4% of the vote back from Mitt Romney in first.

Or perhaps: Ron Paul is currently polling in 2nd place in New Hampshire.

Not a fact: “Ron Paul has no chance at being elected.”

 

[rlg94086]

lothariorowe:

A fact is something indisputable, like: Ron Paul has received more donations from active duty military than all other candidates combined - with specific and current numbers available to objectively confirm said fact.

:yawn:

Some facts are more interesting than others.

 

[lothariorowe]

:yawn:

Some facts are more interesting than others.

haha, funny that’s the exact rebuttal I’ve gotten from some Protestants arguing against Catholicism.

well, you are of course free to ignore any facts that conflict with your current mindset.

 

[rlg94086]

Fact: Ron Paul has no chance of winning the nomination. **The majority of voters don’t believe he is an acceptable candidate. **

gallup.com/poll/151961/Majority-Conservatives-Romney-Acceptable.aspx

Fact: Ron Paul’s “back-up plan” is to have a chance to speak at the convention and influence the Republican Party platform

Fact: Ron Paul has said he has no interest in running as a third party candidate. Oh wait, he’s waffled on that…not sure which of his statements to believe…

ology.com/politics/ron-paul-says-aiming-convention-speaking-slot-primary-campaign-“-good-goal”-video/01092012

I know the last two facts are difficult to believe. Ron Paul called it a back-up plan and waffled on a third party run, and who can trust anything he says?

 

[rlg94086]

well, you are of course free to ignore any facts that conflict with your current mindset.

Who is ignoring it? I said it wasn’t interesting. How the active military votes may influence you, but I vote on the candidates stances, his leadership qualities, and his electability.

I like some of Ron Paul’s stances, but he fails on both the latter points.

 

[exnihilo]

Fact: Ron Paul has no chance of winning the nomination. The majority of voters don’t believe he is an acceptable candidate.

I dont know where you get your facts but polling indicates no such thing. Ron Paul has widespread support. It is very early in the campaign. Dr. Paul has been marginalized by the media and savaged by ‘conservative’ pundits for not wanting to bomb and kill Iranians.

Ron Paul actually has a good shot at winning vs. Obama. If he were to lose it would be because Republicans would rather blow up Iranians than actually reduce the size and power of government and thus would vote for Obama.

Independents Prefer Ron Paul Vs Obama

Obama gets 85% of his party’s vote and Paul only 81% of his in Paul vs Obama. That means a good number of Republicans actually think Obama aint that bad. Maybe that is why they like Romney, Gingrich, Santorum et all who are, to borrow from Pat Buchanan, just the other wing of the same bird of prey.

Fact: Ron Paul’s “back-up plan” is to have a chance to speak at the convention and influence the Republican Party platform

And what back up plan do Santorum, Gingrich, Perry and Huntsman have? Those guys are so inept that they dont even qualify for many state primaries. They wont get the nomination because they cant run a campaign.

Fact: Ron Paul has said he has no interest in running as a third party candidate. Oh wait, he’s waffled on that…not sure which of his statements to believe…

Waffled? Really? He has consistently said he has no intention to run as a third party candidate but that he doesn’t like to ever rule out possibilities about running for office. If you have quotes to the contrary please post them.