Ron Paul Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter gilliam
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m mad because the GOP controlled the executive and legislative branch for a few years while Bush was president and could have done their duty to keep judicial power in check, overturn Roe V. Wade…and save millions.
The GOP controlled the Supreme Court, and therefore the courts, as well. In fact at one time they had 8 of 9 justices. Even today they control it. The GOP has somehow gotten away with convincing people that they need to elect Republicans because they will nominate Supreme Court Justices who will make things right. Since the Republicans control and have controlled the court (it was a Republican court that produced Roe vs. Wade) I’m not sure why that idea is not laughed at. Actually it is such a terrible claim I’m not sure why it isn’t treated like the Golden Rule and loudly booed.
 
The GOP controlled the Supreme Court, and therefore the courts, as well. In fact at one time they had 8 of 9 justices. Even today they control it. The GOP has somehow gotten away with convincing people that they need to elect Republicans because they will nominate Supreme Court Justices who will make things right. Since the Republicans control and have controlled the court (it was a Republican court that produced Roe vs. Wade) I’m not sure why that idea is not laughed at. Actually it is such a terrible claim I’m not sure why it isn’t treated like the Golden Rule and loudly booed.
Its the only card that Republicans have left to play to get people to vote for them. I mean, if it wasn’t for this “we have to get control of the courts” canard, what difference would be there between them and the Democrats?
 
Polling shows a Ron Paul third-party candidacy would more-or-less guarantee Obama re-election

“The Pew Research Center finds 44% of registered voters would support Obama, 32% would back Mitt Romney and 18% would get behind Paul in a three-way race.” - USA Today
So, in a three-way race, one great way to prevent an Obama re-election would be for Romney to drop out to support Paul.

🙂
 
Polling shows a Ron Paul third-party candidacy would more-or-less guarantee Obama re-election

“The Pew Research Center finds 44% of registered voters would support Obama, 32% would back Mitt Romney and 18% would get behind Paul in a three-way race.” - USA Today
Wow. That would mean Dr Paul would be as successful as Ross Perot was in '92 - 18+% of the vote, 0 electorates and helped elect Clinton.
 
Wow. That would mean Dr Paul would be as successful as Ross Perot was in '92 - 18+% of the vote, 0 electorates and helped elect Clinton.
As a third party runner, yes. As a GOP nominee that 18% would beat Obama.

Peace and God bless!
 
Republicans buy into the neoconservative propaganda that Islamists are attacking us because of our freedom and decadence. 🤷
Is it propoganda? Should we have listened to al Qaeda, and closed a major air force base because some goat herder’s delicate sensibilities were offeneded?

How about those Muhammed cartoons?
 
Republicans buy into the neoconservative propaganda that Islamists are attacking us because of our freedom and decadence. 🤷
Let’s see, al-Qaeda attacked us because we decadent westerners were in the “holy land” of Saudi Arabia. We were there by invitation of the King of Saudi Arabia because Saddam invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia. Had we not gone in, our access to oil would have been cut off by the way. So tell me again, how Islamists are not attacking us because we are decadent Westerners?
 
He won’t win the GOP nomination.
Then the GOP won’t win the Presidential election. Independents aren’t going to vote for Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum, and the one who gets the independents (and the disaffected Democrats) will win the election.

Peace and God bless!
 
Then the GOP won’t win the Presidential election. Independents aren’t going to vote for Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum, and the one who gets the independents (and the disaffected Democrats) will win the election.

Peace and God bless!
So, aren’t you using the same tactics that Ron Paul supporters claim the GOP uses…vote for this guy, or else Obama wins? What is the difference?
 
Then the GOP won’t win the Presidential election. Independents aren’t going to vote for Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum, and the one who gets the independents (and the disaffected Democrats) will win the election.

Peace and God bless!
There is enough ammo in Obama’s war chest to smear Ron Paul should he somehow chance upon the nomination. The campaign would be about how extreme Paul is and how mainstream Obama is - Obama would say how we’re finally headed in the right direction, etc - and this would be helped by the unemployment rate going down a bit more, which it seems poised to do. There would be thinly veiled comments about Ron Paul’s fitness for the presdency in light of his age - this would be done by Obama surrogates, of course. Paul’s long history as a true-believing libertarian (and Libertarian) would be picked apart and he’d be asked to explain every statement. The campaign would always be on the defensive. In short, the only way Paul could win would be if there was an economic collapse.

I heard a couple of interesting things - Michael Medved said that the election will hinge on how the supreme court decides on Obama-care. If the public mandate is found unconstitutional Obama would likely lose (to a more mainstream GOP candidate). Also, the election will be decided by a handful of “purple” states in which Obama seems to be weaker than in 2008. Politically its still an eternity until November.

Ishii
 
Let’s see, al-Qaeda attacked us because we decadent westerners were in the “holy land” of Saudi Arabia. We were there by invitation of the King of Saudi Arabia because Saddam invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia. Had we not gone in, our access to oil would have been cut off by the way. So tell me again, how Islamists are not attacking us because we are decadent Westerners?
With atheists, I often encounter the argument that 9/11 was the natural outcome of religion. With others I often encounter the argument that 9/11 was the outcome of a specific religion. I am opposed to both.

Now I can understand why people are inclined to believe that terrorist hate our decadence. On a certain level it’s logical to assume that they attacked us because of an inherent property of Radical Islam and Jihad was indeed the means that were used to attack us.

However I think there’s a bit more to this. Bin Laden was in no way justified, but if you look at his own statements it was clearly US foreign policy which instigated the attacks. It wasn’t simply because we were in Saudi Arabia. We’ve had ongoing military action in the region for years.

Also Bin Laden wasn’t piloting any plane and there’s evidence that the hijackers were suicidal. I don’t think we should exclusively blame religions zealotry. To look at what caused 9/11 we ought to look at the motives of the planners like Bin Laden.

Bin Laden stated that As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way: to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." He’s referring to the Siege of Beirut, which we weren’t directly involved with and and actually condemned, though in Bin Laden’s eyes the US held responsibility.

Imagine that foreigners whom you’ve never met and done anything against were to commit actions that killed thousands of your fellow citizens. That’s how the terrorists perceive us and I think that’s what they were trying to give us a taste of with 9/11. Are they justified in attacking us? Absolutely not, but we ought to show a bit more prudence with our foreign military presense.

Foreign occupation can breed terrorism. The West’s occupation of the Middle East can trace itself back to World War I, a war triggered by an incident having to do with suicidal terrorists. Did the Black Hand assassinate Franz Ferdinand because they hated Austria and everything they stood for? Well, specifically they hated its military rule over the region. The man who fired the shot, Gavrilo Princip, was an atheist, but he was on a suicide mission, he tried to kill himself with cyanide after the shooting. I’m going to assume he was suicidal, and I vaguely remember finding evidence for that. What drove young men to do this? Bad foreign policy.

If our military bases in Europe were perceived to be causing the deaths of thousands, then it’s not beyond the realm of reason to expect terrorists to rise up against us there as well.

Now then is it possible that Radical Islam in itself is enough to cause a terrorist attack. Yes, and we ought to maintain a well alert, strong defense, but were gonna have an even bigger problem if we continue with our current foreign policy.
 
There is enough ammo in Obama’s war chest to smear Ron Paul should he somehow chance upon the nomination. The campaign would be about how extreme Paul is and how mainstream Obama is - Obama would say how we’re finally headed in the right direction, etc - and this would be helped by the unemployment rate going down a bit more, which it seems poised to do. There would be thinly veiled comments about Ron Paul’s fitness for the presdency in light of his age - this would be done by Obama surrogates, of course. Paul’s long history as a true-believing libertarian (and Libertarian) would be picked apart and he’d be asked to explain every statement. The campaign would always be on the defensive. In short, the only way Paul could win would be if there was an economic collapse.

I heard a couple of interesting things - Michael Medved said that the election will hinge on how the supreme court decides on Obama-care. If the public mandate is found unconstitutional Obama would likely lose (to a more mainstream GOP candidate). Also, the election will be decided by a handful of “purple” states in which Obama seems to be weaker than in 2008. Politically its still an eternity until November.

Ishii
IF there was an economic collapse? Where have you been for the last 4 years? The economy has stagnated, Obama has spent over 5 trillion more than he’s taken in, and he wants Congress to borrow another 1.2 trillion, in spite of the fact that they haven’t passed a budget in 3 years.

And who care about Michael Medved. He is an early afternoon version of Sean Hannity. All fluff and no substance. If I want meat, I usually listen to Jerry Doyle or Dennis Prager.
 
IF there was an economic collapse? Where have you been for the last 4 years? The economy has stagnated, Obama has spent over 5 trillion more than he’s taken in, and he wants Congress to borrow another 1.2 trillion, in spite of the fact that they haven’t passed a budget in 3 years.

And who care about Michael Medved. He is an early afternoon version of Sean Hannity. All fluff and no substance. If I want meat, I usually listen to Jerry Doyle or Dennis Prager.
First off, you’re confusing a harsh economic recession with an an economic* collapse *. The former we’re still in, the latter hasn’t happened and hopefully won’t happen. The economy has indeed stagnated, but that’s not a collapse. I agree that Obama has been a terrible president and spend trillions, etc. But Obama will make every effort to make the election about the GOP candidate and not about his own record. If Paul is by some fluke the nominee, Obama will have an easy time of it.

I am disappointed in your answer to Medved, as what he says about Obama care makes sense to me. Obama has indeed staked his presidency on it, and if its found unconstitutional, it will be seen as a huge failure. Not sure if I’d go as far as Medved and say the election hinges on the decision - but it would have an effect. So you might not care about Medved, but I am disappointed that you would brush off what he says without even commenting on it. I expect that kind of attitude more from the left, than the right. I guess I was wrong. Incidently, Dennis Prager thinks very highly of Medved. So now you can dismiss Prager too I guess.

Ishii
 
People try to discredit Paul by saying he’s “too extreme”

I think we can all agree that this country is in crisis, and something extreme is needed to save it.
 
People try to discredit Paul by saying he’s “too extreme”

I think we can all agree that this country is in crisis, and something extreme is needed to save it.
If you’re referring to my post, I was making the point that Obama would have an easy time portraying Ron Paul as extreme, based on Paul’s statements over the past few decades.

Ishii
 
People try to discredit Paul by saying he’s “too extreme”

I think we can all agree that this country is in crisis, and something extreme is needed to save it.
I’m a Ron Paul supporter but I acknowledge he’s out of the mainstream. The crisis has definitely brought him more into the mainstream though. It’s been quite a different campaign than when he ran in '88.

Dr. Paul predicted the housing bubble, he’s studied economics a lot. The US leaving the gold standard was the reason he got into politics. I don’t think any presidential candidate understands economics to the extent that he does, and if he’s not elected, sooner or later economic realities may catch up with the US anyways. Now that could result in some extreme changes.
 
I’m a Ron Paul supporter but I acknowledge he’s out of the mainstream. The crisis has definitely brought him more into the mainstream though. It’s been quite a different campaign than when he ran in '88.

Dr. Paul predicted the housing bubble, he’s studied economics a lot. The US leaving the gold standard was the reason he got into politics. I don’t think any presidential candidate understands economics to the extent that he does, and if he’s not elected, sooner or later economic realities may catch up with the US anyways. Now that could result in some extreme changes.
That is true. If our out of control spending is dealt with fairly drastically, and soon, there could be huge problems up ahead.

Ishii
 
However I think there’s a bit more to this. Bin Laden was in no way justified, but if you look at his own statements it was clearly US foreign policy which instigated the attacks. It wasn’t simply because we were in Saudi Arabia. We’ve had ongoing military action in the region for years.
The problem is that Islam has a track record of fanaticism. They are the traditional enemies of the west. It’s not like this is the first time Islamic zealots tried to conquer or kill innocent people under the name of Allah.
So, aren’t you using the same tactics that Ron Paul supporters claim the GOP uses…vote for this guy, or else Obama wins? What is the difference?
The difference is that we vote for Ron Paul because we actually think he’s the best candidate. Romney supporters say we have to vote for him or Obama will win. That’s like saying we should be catholic because we don’t want to go to hell. It may be true, but it isn’t exactly motivating.
 
The difference is that we vote for Ron Paul because we actually think he’s the best candidate. Romney supporters say we have to vote for him or Obama will win. That’s like saying we should be catholic because we don’t want to go to hell. It may be true, but it isn’t exactly motivating.
I saw a speech on you tube earlier today that spoke exactly to that. (from a christian perspective)

youtube.com/watch?v=0rScPlpBBIA
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top