Rosary before Mass truncated

[Guitar]

Sometimes there is interruption, such as when the choir need to go over some things on the days we have a sung Mass - they all have full time jobs or are at school and that’s probably the only time they have to practice - so we have to either bunch closer together or continue silently, but these interruptions should be accepted with humility and good grace.

This rings bells with me.

I still have an unpleasant taste in my mouth from a funeral where I had two professional musicians with me who had reorganised all their music students for that day and specially arranged and paid for child minding for their pre-school age children, and each driven over an hour to play … I knew the rosary group would be there before this funeral, and I explained to them (knowing exactly how long it takes for them to say rosary) that if they could just delay their normal start by 5 minutes (still leaving a good ten minutes before Mass) then I would have a chance to finish rehearsing first and would be out of their way and there would then still be peace and quiet before the start of Mass. But no, they couldn’t possibly do that, having heard me out they then just started rosary over the top of us at exactly their accustomed time … so if we’d kept rehearsing we’d have been the bad guys … we’d strictly limited our rehearsal to the bare minimum anyway, and that five minutes meant we played two of the pieces without any rehearsal at all, rather than “fight” the rosary or be a disruption in the 5-10 mins before Mass. My colleagues are very competent musicians and able to do this, however that isn’t the point - it is not the way we like to do things because we take what we do seriously. We don’t want to be whispering count-ins because they have no idea of the tempo, and doing all those sorts of things that are needed when you’ve had no chance to play through something unfamiliar.

For every horror story of truly inconsiderate people riding roughshod over the top of rosary, there is a rosary group that shows equal lack of consideration for everyone else.

 

[PaulAndrew83]

A devotion like the Rosary should be completed with a good 10 or 15 minutes between it and the Mass. If Mass starts at 10:30 the Rosary should be completed by 10:15 and in my opinion should not be started any sooner than 10 or 15 minutes after Mass ends.

Not to be funny but It is quite possible to pray the rosary just before Mass. In fact people who come to my Novus Ordo church during the week often join in if they missed the start but just before mass everyone can sometimes be finishing the last decade of the rosary together.

The Priest never dreams of interrupting either.

While I agree in this case that because you have rude and inconsiderate/incompetant lectors to start earlier.

If in the case that people who normally say the Rosary before Mass cannot make it an extra 20 minutes early which is highly possible Then what I suggest you do is to make some use of tactics.

Get someone to simply obstruct the lector on some sort of pretext for one minute by claiming I have need of them or asking them a stupid question. You will need to call them the Commando or something like this

@Guitar you are surly correct. However if you asked them to wait so you could join them that might also have worked.

Paul

 

[zab]

This rings bells with me.

I still have an unpleasant taste in my mouth from a funeral where I had two professional musicians with me who had reorganised all their music students for that day and specially arranged and paid for child minding for their pre-school age children, and each driven over an hour to play … I knew the rosary group would be there before this funeral, and I explained to them (knowing exactly how long it takes for them to say rosary) that if they could just delay their normal start by 5 minutes (still leaving a good ten minutes before Mass) then I would have a chance to finish rehearsing first and would be out of their way and there would then still be peace and quiet before the start of Mass. But no, they couldn’t possibly do that, having heard me out they then just started rosary over the top of us at exactly their accustomed time … so if we’d kept rehearsing we’d have been the bad guys … we’d strictly limited our rehearsal to the bare minimum anyway, and that five minutes meant we played two of the pieces without any rehearsal at all, rather than “fight” the rosary or be a disruption in the 5-10 mins before Mass. My colleagues are very competent musicians and able to do this, however that isn’t the point - it is not the way we like to do things because we take what we do seriously. We don’t want to be whispering count-ins because they have no idea of the tempo, and doing all those sorts of things that are needed when you’ve had no chance to play through something unfamiliar.

For every horror story of truly inconsiderate people riding roughshod over the top of rosary, there is a rosary group that shows equal lack of consideration for everyone else.

Your practice in not more important than praying the rosary that was scheduled at certain time. Praying the rosary before a funeral is not just a private prayer of a group of people. It is a tradition that many people want the rosary prayed for their deceased one. In some areas, the rosary is prayed at the funeral home the night before. However, some people want the rosary prayed for their loved one when the body (or ashes) are in the church. And this is often done the day of the funeral, 30 minutes before the funeral begins.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Not to be funny but It is quite possible to pray the rosary just before Mass. In fact people who come to my Novus Ordo church during the week often join in if they missed the start but just before mass everyone can sometimes be finishing the last decade of the rosary together.

The Priest never dreams of interrupting either.

While I agree in this case that because you have rude and inconsiderate/incompetant lectors to start earlier.

If in the case that people who normally say the Rosary before Mass cannot make it an extra 20 minutes early which is highly possible Then what I suggest you do is to make some use of tactics.

Get someone to simply obstruct the lector on some sort of pretext for one minute by claiming I have need of them or asking them a stupid question. You will need to call them the Commando or something like this

@Guitar you are surly correct. However if you asked them to wait so you could join them that might also have worked.

Paul

I think the idea of using “tactics” to delay the lector in doing his appointed job for the liturgy is what is inconsiderate and rude. The OP needs to speak to her pastor and find out what he would prefer. It is very likely that the pastor would prefer Mass to begin on time and has instructed the lector to start the announcements when he did to further that end.

It does not seem from the OP, that this rosary group is an offical parish group with the time of the rosary on the church schedule. As such they are there praying before Mass just as any individual might be, and should be called to prepare for the liturgy just as everyone else is.

 

[zab]

It does not seem from the OP, that this rosary group is an offical parish group with the time of the rosary on the church schedule. As such they are there praying before Mass just as any individual might be, and should be called to prepare for the liturgy just as everyone else is.

Just because it is a small group at times does not mean that it is not on the schedule.

 

[Seatuck]

The Rosary should be started earlier. We are supposed to observing some sacred silence right before Mass while we gather our thoughts and focus on the Mass. It is distracting when others are praying out loud minutes before the start of Mass. The same as when others are talking and chatting.

 

[zab]

The Rosary should be started earlier. We are supposed to observing some sacred silence right before Mass while we gather our thoughts and focus on the Mass. It is distracting when others are praying out loud minutes before the start of Mass. The same as when others are talking and chatting.

Perhaps it was a few minutes late because as the OP mentioned, the lady who usually leads did not show up so a substitute leader was needed.

 

[Tepeyac]

To the OP, I suggest speaking to your pastor about your concerns.

Praying the rosary publicly in church is an old tradition. In fact, there are indulgences attached to such a custom.

1. 
   *]For those who pray the Rosary, a plenary indulgence is granted under the usual conditions, when the Rosary is prayed in Church, or in a Public Oratory, in a family (family Rosary), Religious Community, or Pious Association. Otherwise a partial indulgence is granted.

1. 
   In the past it wasn’t unusual for people to pray the rosary together before Mass. In the parish I grew up in they would do so during Holy Week.
   
   From the OP it sounds like this tradition was already established in the parish (“I have been joining them for months”) and , because the interruption has only happened a couple of times, it sounds like a custom most people at that at parish are aware of. If that’s the case, I actually don’t see why they should have to begin the rosary earlier (unless the pastor requests it). It sounds like they were doing fine, and it was the lector (who could been sincerely following instructions, or just not thinking) who seemed to be disturbing the routine at that parish.

 

[Seatuck]

Perhaps it was a few minutes late because as the OP mentioned, the lady who usually leads did not show up so a substitute leader was needed.

Perhaps ,but the OP seems to imply that they regularly finish within a few minutes of Mass. There clearly should be at least a 10-15 minute window as was suggested by another poster.

 

[pnewton]

We’ve never had any conflict over the Rosary, although we have the same issues. When Mass is ready to start, the bell rings and if the Rosary is not complete, it still ends. It is not overbearing and those that pray in private have no problem still doing so. As with most choirs, we have to discuss some things before Mass. We huddle and whisper and it is not a distraction.

If the noise level is not high, all of this can happen without conflict. To this end, one thing a Rosary group can do is sit closer together in one section of the Church before Mass to pray.

 

[zab]

Perhaps ,but the OP seems to imply that they regularly finish within a few minutes of Mass. There clearly should be at least a 10-15 minute window as was suggested by another poster.

What she said was there was still a few minutes after the lector finished reading announcements, giving the daily readings and asking who were visitors.

 

[Guitar]

Your practice in not more important than praying the rosary that was scheduled at certain time. Praying the rosary before a funeral is not just a private prayer of a group of people. It is a tradition that many people want the rosary prayed for their deceased one. In some areas, the rosary is prayed at the funeral home the night before. However, some people want the rosary prayed for their loved one when the body (or ashes) are in the church. And this is often done the day of the funeral, 30 minutes before the funeral begins.

Nor did I say it was more important. If you read what I wrote, we did not ask the rosary group to vacate the planet for us. We asked them to delay the start by 5 minutes so that we all, musicians, rosary group, and everyone wanting quiet before Mass, could all be accomodated. This was not a Mass at a regular time and the rosary group hadn’t actually been asked along by the family - so it was not scheduled at all. They decided they would come along and start rosary at the time they normally begin it before weekday Mass. Which is a good thing. But we were invited and paid by the family, who knew that we needed to rehearse, and we went to reasonable lengths to get our rehearsal over first so we wouldn’t be in the way of rosary or anyone else. And the unscheduled rosary group could not do this one simple thing that we asked, which would have meant no skin off their noses whatsoever.

Please explain to me how asking the rosary group to wait five minutes, which still leaves 10 clear minutes before Mass, means I think my practice is more important than the rosary.

 

[Trishie]

The Mass takes precedence over the Rosary. Clearly the people involved incorrectly believed that a devotion takes precedence over the Eucharist. As others have said, it’s up to those saying the Rosary to ensure that enough time is allowed to finish it.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

I. The Eucharist—Source and Summit of Ecclesial Life

1324
The Eucharist is “the source and summit of the Christian life.”“The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”

1325
"The Eucharist is the efficacious sign and sublime cause of that communion in the divine life and that unity of the People of God by which the Church is kept in being. It is the culmination both of God’s action sanctifying the world in Christ and of the worship men offer to Christ and through him to the Father in the Holy Spirit."138

1326
Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all.

 

[zab]

Nor did I say it was more important. If you read what I wrote, we did not ask the rosary group to vacate the planet for us. We asked them to delay the start by 5 minutes so that we all, musicians, rosary group, and everyone wanting quiet before Mass, could all be accomodated. This was not a Mass at a regular time and the rosary group hadn’t actually been asked along by the family - so it was not scheduled at all. They decided they would come along and start rosary at the time they normally begin it before weekday Mass. Which is a good thing. But we were invited and paid by the family, who knew that we needed to rehearse, and we went to reasonable lengths to get our rehearsal over first so we wouldn’t be in the way of rosary or anyone else. And the unscheduled rosary group could not do this one simple thing that we asked, which would have meant no skin off their noses whatsoever.

Please explain to me how asking the rosary group to wait five minutes, which still leaves 10 clear minutes before Mass, means I think my practice is more important than the rosary.

I read what you wrote. You wanted the rosary to start 5 minutes later. Most on this board are saying the rosary should begin earlier. You say “this was not a Mass at a regular time.” Then you say that the rosary group, "decided they would come along and start rosary at the time they normally begin it before weekday Mass. " You say “the rosary group hadn’t actually been asked along by the family”. Perhaps they are there with permission of the pastor to pray for the deceased. In our parish, the Legion of Mary has that task, to pray the rosary 30 minutes before a funeral. No matter if the person is well known or a nobody they will have people praying for the repose of their soul. Even though you did not ask the rosary group to “vacate the planet”, you come across as having an attitude against them. Perhaps that came across when you “asked” them to delay 5 minutes.

 

[zab]

The Mass takes precedence over the Rosary. Clearly the people involved incorrectly believed that a devotion takes precedence over the Eucharist. As others have said, it’s up to those saying the Rosary to ensure that enough time is allowed to finish it.

That is not clear at all.

 

[revert_jen]

You wanted the rosary to start 5 minutes later. Most on this board are saying the rosary should begin earlier.

I’m afraid the situations aren’t really similar. People (including myself) have been saying that if people have a regular rosary devotion before Mass, maybe they should start it earlier if they are being prevented from finishing it by the preparations for Mass, even if those preparations seem unnecessarily early.

In this case it was a special occasion (a funeral), and it appears that even had they delayed, the Mass would not have been interfered with. Frankly, even if the rosary people had been in the right about the scheduling, it was not kind to just start in over top of the musicians finishing rehearsal. The fact that they did this, and that the musicians stopped to avoid competing, says to me that the musicians were evincing more good will than the rosary people.

However, of course, we have only heard one side. Quite possibly the rosary people had had previous experiences with other musicians, where the musicians said they needed 5 more minutes, which turned into 15, and then they couldn’t finish the rosary before Mass. Since it is much better to finish with time to spare than not, they may have gotten into the habit of starting at their set time regardless of all considerations.

Also, if delaying the rosary by five minutes would have still left 10 minutes before Mass, then they must have actually finished with 15 minutes before Mass, so I would have thought that the musicians could have gotten in 5 minutes of practice after the rosary and still had 10 minutes of quiet before Mass. But hindsight is 20/20.

Even though you did not ask the rosary group to “vacate the planet”, you come across as having an attitude against them. Perhaps that came across when you “asked” them to delay 5 minutes.

Actually it sounded to me as if the poster thought that the arrangements of the family of the deceased should take precedence over the arrangements of strangers. It is an idea I can’t entirely disagree with.

–Jen

 

[Guitar]

I read what you wrote. You wanted the rosary to start 5 minutes later. Most on this board are saying the rosary should begin earlier. You say “this was not a Mass at a regular time.” Then you say that the rosary group, "decided they would come along and start rosary at the time they normally begin it before weekday Mass. " You say “the rosary group hadn’t actually been asked along by the family”. Perhaps they are there with permission of the pastor to pray for the deceased. In our parish, the Legion of Mary has that task, to pray the rosary 30 minutes before a funeral. No matter if the person is well known or a nobody they will have people praying for the repose of their soul. Even though you did not ask the rosary group to “vacate the planet”, you come across as having an attitude against them. Perhaps that came across when you “asked” them to delay 5 minutes.

Zab, you don’t know me from a bar of soap. You have no idea how I approached them. They are people I know quite well and I was very careful to explain the situation and that we were trying to fit in with them as well as with everyone else.

As for the situation, it’s really not very difficult to understand. The rosary group normally either says a rosary X minutes before weekday morning Mass, or they say it after morning Mass. This funeral was in the afternoon, so they decided to come along and say rosary X minutes before Mass. In order to avoid disrupting quiet time before Mass, we needed to rehearse before rosary. There was time for them to start later and then have some quiet, but not enough time for us to rehearse after they had finished.

It’s irrelevant whether they were there with Father’s permission, or not. They couldn’t do one simple thing to allow us all to do what we were there to do comfortably, and yes, I do have a bit of an attitude about that after the event, whether it’s rosary or the church cleaners or a wedding couple casing the joint or [whatever].

You in turn seem to have an attitude of rosary group can do no wrong and everyone else must give way at all times no matter when they decide to do their thing. Rosary is important, and they should have been there at this funeral. Again - read what I wrote, I said all that. But they are not absolved from the need to consider others just because they are saying rosary. Which is what a lot of other people are saying here - a bit of mutual respect goes a long way.

 

[zab]

However, of course, we have only heard one side.

True

Zab, you don’t know me from a bar of soap. You have no idea how I approached them. They are people I know quite well and I was very careful to explain the situation and that we were trying to fit in with them as well as with everyone else.

As for the situation, it’s really not very difficult to understand. The rosary group normally either says a rosary X minutes before weekday morning Mass, or they say it after morning Mass. This funeral was in the afternoon,** so they decided to come along and say rosary X minutes before Mass.** In order to avoid disrupting quiet time before Mass, we needed to rehearse before rosary. There was time for them to start later and then have some quiet, but not enough time for us to rehearse after they had finished.

It’s irrelevant whether they were there with Father’s permission, or not. They couldn’t do one simple thing to allow us all to do what we were there to do comfortably, and yes,** I do have a bit of an attitude about that** after the event, whether it’s rosary or the church cleaners or a wedding couple casing the joint or [whatever].

You in turn seem to have an attitude of rosary group can do no wrong and everyone else must give way at all times no matter when they decide to do their thing. Rosary is important, and they should have been there at this funeral. Again - read what I wrote, I said all that. But they are not absolved from the need to consider others just because they are saying rosary. Which is what a lot of other people are saying here - a bit of mutual respect goes a long way.

You don’t know me any more than I know you. But you have admitted that you have a “bit of an attitude about that” . As the previous poster wrote, we are only hearing one side on this story. And frankly, you have given me reason not to completely trust your side.

 

[paperwight]

True

You don’t know me any more than I know you. But you have admitted that you have a “bit of an attitude about that” . As the previous poster wrote, we are only hearing one side on this story. And frankly, you have given me reason not to completely trust your side.

Zab, you are being unfair and twisting Guitar’s words.

He (she?) said that the bit of an attitude was ‘after the event’.

Didn’t you read that, or have you chosen to ignore it?

Read Guitar’s account of the incident again quietly and carefully, then read your replies.

And feel ashamed.

 

[zab]

Zab, you are being unfair and twisting Guitar’s words.

He (she?) said that the bit of an attitude was ‘after the event’.

Didn’t you read that, or have you chosen to ignore it?

Read Guitar’s account of the incident again quietly and carefully, then read your replies.

And feel ashamed.

You are free to believe whatever you want.