Rosary during Mass.

[Resurrexit]

So, because you proudly apply the label “extremist” to yourself, you can add, to your list, another term - “non-exonymic.”

Seriously, is praying the Rosary part of being a “scary fire and brimstone Catholic”? Generation after generation of faithful Catholics, down through the ages, have regarded the Rosary as a prayer of love, an expression of mercy and redemption.
Interesting isn’t it, that there are no mysteries dedicated to Christ preaching about hell (and he did plenty of that.) Interesting that the mysteries are grouped under “Joyful,” “Glorious” and “Luminous” (but you mightnot feel comfortable with praying that last one, at least not as John Paul II gave them to us, hmm?) - quite obviously not about fire and brimstone - and “Sorrowful”: hellish, in some aspects, but not about fire and brimstone; rather all about the great love and mercy of God *saving us *from fire and brimstone.

If you really wanted to remind us that scary fire and brimstone Catholics still exist, you should start a thread titled “You’re going to burn in hell if you don’t stop that.”

And you should talk about the Rosary less - it reminds us of Mary, and of Christ, not of fire and brimstone.

Hahaha! Very funny.

But to answer the original question, I think it’s best not to pray the Rosary during Mass, but rather focus on the prayers of the Mass itself.

On the other hand, there is this silly attitude of some that ‘Oh I would never want to go back to the TLM - you know they even prayed the Rosary during Mass!!!’

Rosary during Mass… or Extraordinary Monsters dressed as demons?.. hmm…

 

[MariaG]

From Ask the Apologist by Michelle Arnold

Should Rosaries be in hand at Communion?

Because the laity generally had little to do but follow along in a missal while the priest offered Mass, some began to pray the rosary as a way of participating at Mass. This custom was never a good idea because the rosary is a private devotion and the laity’s attention should have been focused on the public prayer of the Mass.

 

[GerardP]

The rosary is never out of place. It is never opposed to Catholic customs. It is complementary to the Mass, it doesn’t detract at all. This is why Pius XII recommended it. Especially when the TLM can be divided into Fives for the contemplation of five mysteries.

Think about it, the Mass is the public act of witnessing Calvary. With all of the Rosaries that are said outside of abortion clinics, the Rosary at Mass which is the event of ultimate reparation, the Rosary cannot be out of place.

And considering the sterile prayers of the Novus Ordo (which you can recite just as mindlessly as any other prayer) compared with the rich depth and deep meaning of the prayers of the TLM, the rosary is probably a better form of participation from the distractions engendered by the faulty implementation and distortions of the Novus Ordo.

This idea that physical outward participation is the participation intended by the liturgical movement or even the fathers at Vatican II is incorrect.

Finally, the rosary is not just a private devotion, it can be both communal and private. Parishes should be saying public rosaries, families should be saying public rosaries. One of the traditions of the Church is that a public Rosary said by 30 people obtains for each individual 30 times the grace as a rosary said alone.

 

[bear06]

If one were not completely not understand or be able to follow the Mass then it probably would be OK to say the rosary. It would be better to do something than nothing.

That said, I have a little trouble with the argument that one cannot follow the missal when the argument has been made (and I actually agree with it) that the missal is easy to follow. Which is it? Maybe if you were in France and didn’t know French or Latin but here?

Secondly, I find the distraction argument problematic. If one can’t concentrate on the Mass why would they be able to concentrate on the rosary? Besides that, wouldn’t it be better to try harder to concentrate on the Mass. It’s like a small child who can’t sit still. Is it better to take the child out of Mass and let them run around or is it better to have them practice, to the best of their abilities, to behave. Practice does make perfect although I’ve yet to perfect the mind wandering problem completely myself. It would seem it would be better to say the rosary before Mass and ask with help for this problem.

I’m surprised nobody quoted Marialis Cultus:

However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there.

papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6marial.htm

Please spare me the “it’s not infallible”. It wouldn’t seem anything quoted here is. I’m inclined to go with Alex’s argument that it’s not best.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

The rosary is never out of place. It is never opposed to Catholic customs. It is complementary to the Mass, it doesn’t detract at all. This is why Pius XII recommended it. Especially when the TLM can be divided into Fives for the contemplation of five mysteries.

Think about it, the Mass is the public act of witnessing Calvary. With all of the Rosaries that are said outside of abortion clinics, the Rosary at Mass which is the event of ultimate reparation, the Rosary cannot be out of place.

And considering the sterile prayers of the Novus Ordo (which you can recite just as mindlessly as any other prayer) compared with the rich depth and deep meaning of the prayers of the TLM, the rosary is probably a better form of participation from the distractions engendered by the faulty implementation and distortions of the Novus Ordo.

This idea that physical outward participation is the participation intended by the liturgical movement or even the fathers at Vatican II is incorrect.

Finally, the rosary is not just a private devotion, it can be both communal and private. Parishes should be saying public rosaries, families should be saying public rosaries. One of the traditions of the Church is that a public Rosary said by 30 people obtains for each individual 30 times the grace as a rosary said alone.

Agreed.

There is nothing wrong with praying the Rosary during the Mass. I dont think it should even be discouraged so long as the believer understands it as this…

I am at the HOLY MASS, praying the Holy Rosary.

Not

I am praying the HOLY ROSARY, at the Holy Mass.

If I was at the foot of the cross, what would I be doing? Id hope id be praying…not engaging Our Lord in ‘dialogue’ for the sake of participation.

Some moments are best left silent.

 

[LilyM]

Agreed.

There is nothing wrong with praying the Rosary during the Mass. I dont think it should even be discouraged so long as the believer understands it as this…

I am at the HOLY MASS, praying the Holy Rosary.

Not

I am praying the HOLY ROSARY, at the Holy Mass.

If I was at the foot of the cross, what would I be doing? Id hope id be praying…not engaging Our Lord in ‘dialogue’ for the sake of participation.

Some moments are best left silent.

If I were at the foot of the Cross I would be focusing on His blessed suffering self in awe and worship, listening to see if he has any last words to say to me. Which is what I do during Mass. I know I would NOT waste a single second reciting a rosary on Calvary and I do not in Mass.

The Rosary is NOT silence. It’s needless extra chatter at such a time. Even the NO Mass is much more silent and contemplative. What you’re doing in saying a Rosary during Mass is substituting or sticking in an inferior prayer into the superior and perfect one.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

If I were at the foot of the Cross I would be focusing on His blessed suffering self in awe and worship, listening to see if he has any last words to say to me. Which is what I do during Mass. I know I would NOT waste a single second reciting a rosary on Calvary and I do not in Mass.

The Rosary is NOT silence. It’s needless extra chatter at such a time. Even the NO Mass is much more silent and contemplative. What you’re doing in saying a Rosary during Mass is substituting or sticking in an inferior prayer into the superior and perfect one.

First of all people do not pray the Rosary outloud during Mass. I can see why it would be a distraction for somone to do so. The Rosary is prayed silently at the Mass by the people who practice that.

And im afraid Id just have to disagree with you. If I was at the foot of the Cross I would be praying.

I would be focusing on His blessed suffering self in awe and worship.

Which is what I think the Sorrowful Mysteries does perfectly.

It would be quite lovely to be on the fifth sorrowful mystery at the consecration. Fingers on the beads, prayer on your lips, mind on the Cross, and eyes on the Host.

What perfect participation!

I dont see how constantly responding with mistranslated phrases like ‘and also with you’ could possibly be higher participation than what I stated above.

 

[InLight247]

Agreed.

There is nothing wrong with praying the Rosary during the Mass. I dont think it should even be discouraged so long as the believer understands it as this…

Mass, the heaven on earth, is the Holy Sacrifice for us to fully participate with 100% of our attention.
Every part of Mass has its profound significance, many parts are “conversational”, the penitential rite, the gloria, the psalm, the Alleluia, the Profession of Faith, the prayer of faithful, the great Amen… How can anyone fully participate while citing Rosary??

Mary always points us to Jesus. Our Holy Mother wouldn’t want us to distract ourselves during the Holy Sacrifice of her son.

We should not say rosary during Mass. We ought to show our respect by concentrating in every detail of the Mass with our whole being.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Mass, the heaven on earth, is the Holy Sacrifice for us to fully participate with 100% of our attention.
Every part of Mass has its profound significance.
How can anyone fully participate the Holy Mass while citing Rosary?? Mary always points us to Jesus. Our Holy Mother wouldn’t want us to distract ourselves during the Holy Sacrifice of her son.

We definitely should not say rosary during Mass. We ought to show respect by concentrating in every detail with our whole being.

The Rosary can be a magnifying glass for the Mass. While the Priest is reciting the Mass (much of which is silent and inaudible) we ought to fill the space with some sort of pious meditation on the Mystery.

If the Mass is the Sacrifice of Calvary, what could be better than meditating on the Mysteries of Our Lord’s Passion?

What about in ancient basilica’s where somone seated in the far back could not hear the words of the Mass, nor even see the Priest or the Host.

Trusting in the real presence, praying the Mysteries of the Cross, and preparing himself or herself with the help of Our Lady to recieve the Eucharistic King…

Is a very pious practice and should be encouraged.

Of course were talking about the TLM here people…It has a much better enviorment for personal devotions than the NO Mass.

And it is not conversational. As your post says.

The TLM’s text is recited between the Priest and the Altar Boys.

 

[bear06]

The Rosary can be a magnifying glass for the Mass. While the Priest is reciting the Mass (much of which is silent and inaudible) we ought to fill the space with some sort of pious meditation on the Mystery.

Why couldn’t someone read the canon?

If the Mass is the Sacrifice of Calvary, what could be better than meditating on the Mysteries of Our Lord’s Passion?

 

[InLight247]

Of course were talking about the TLM here people…It has a much better enviorment for personal devotions than the NO Mass.

And it is not conversational. As your post says.

The TLM’s text is recited between the Priest and the Altar Boys.

What I mean by “conversational” is that we, as the congregation, have our answering part. The penitential rite, the gloria, the psalm, the Alleluia, the profession of faith, the prayer of faithful, the great Amen all require our participation.

Also, to me, the definition of saying Rosary is saying the whole rosary at one time. Personally, I always finish the whole rosary without stopping. I am not talking about saying one “Hail Mary” in a short silence of the Mass or a quick reflection on the Passion in some short part of silence. That is not “citing the Rosary”.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Why couldn’t someone read the canon?

Assuming the person already knows what the canon says…than thats obselete.

Anyone who doesnt already know the words of the canon needs to research it a bit until he is familiar.

This is a practicality. You can’t listen to music and watch T.V. In fact, that’s actually a good point. We’re not even supposed to have music during the Consecration no matter how pious it is.

Thats very different.

If you were watching a TV documentary on Bears and at the same time was listening to a rock band…you’d find trouble participating in either. Thats true.

But we know music does not always hinder participation in visuals. For example…movies have soundtracks. Sometimes very detailed, very highly engrossing, very meaningful music playing in-sync with the film. This music often times helps the film, makes certain points stand out, and adds to the participation in the film.

For example…scary music often times adds to the effect of a horror movie.

The Mass and the Rosary are not conflicting prayers…they do not contradict eachother or cause any friction. So the TV and Radio analogy doesnt work.

This is not our situation today. Time and time again I’ve heard people on this forum tell others that it’s very easy to pick up the Latin and to follow along in the missal. I, for one, agree with this. There are VERY few who cannot make this attempt and get fairly far on the first try. Sure, if there were no possible way to actual figure out what’s going on or to follow then it might be just fine to say the rosary. This is hardly the case for the average person who prays the rosary during Mass.

This revolves around the arguement that one cannot understand Latin while praying the Rosary. My Father prays the Rosary in the car…and God forbid he isnt ‘participating’ in driving…

This get’s tiresome. The prayers of the Mass are far more adventageous to meditate on during the Mass

Now you and I both know the discusion isnt about wether or not the Mass is superior to the Rosary. Nor is it about which one is more meditative. Obviously the Mass is superior in every way, shape and form.

The question is can the Rosary subsist (a VII friendly word…just joking ) within the context of the Mass without being a harmful hinderance to participation.

You sing the Agnus Dei at a NO Mass…but does mean you are suddenly singing a hymn and no longer paying attention to the Mass. Of course not.

Saying the Rosary is a barrier to participation is illogical.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

What I mean by “conversational” is that we, as the congregation, have our answering part. The penitential rite, the gloria, the psalm, the Alleluia, the profession of faith, the prayer of faithful, the great Amen all require our participation.

Also, to me, the definition of saying Rosary is saying the whole rosary at one time. Personally, I always finish the whole rosary without stopping. I am not talking about saying one “Hail Mary” in a short silence of the Mass or a quick reflection on the Passion in some short part of silence. That is not “citing the Rosary”.

Well thats a misunderstanding on both our parts then

See…the people who pray the Rosary at my parish stop during the Homily and Consecration. They dont pray the Rosary beginning to end…

I prefer praying the Rosary straight through…but sometimes when im pressed for time I will do decades throughout the day to meet my 1-Rosary-a-day goal.

 

[bear06]

Assuming the person already knows what the canon says…than thats obselete.

Anyone who doesnt already know the words of the canon needs to research it a bit until he is familiar.

Why then wouldn’t you read the canon and familiarize yourself with it rather than say the rosary?

But we know music does not always hinder participation in visuals.

We’re, however, talking about the Mass where no music is supposed to be played during the canon. It does not help us to be engrossed in it no matter how complimentary it may seem. It’s the same with the rosary.

For example…scary music often times adds to the effect of a horror movie.

Well then, I’ll anxiously await the crescendo at the Consecration.

The Mass and the Rosary are not conflicting prayers…they do not contradict eachother or cause any friction. So the TV and Radio analogy doesnt work

.

How would a hymn, especially a Eucharistic hymn, be in conflict with the Consecration then? Everything has a place and time. In most cases the Mass isn’t the time for the rosary and the Canon isn’t time for music.

This revolves around the arguement that one cannot understand Latin while praying the Rosary. My Father prays the Rosary in the car…and God forbid he isnt ‘participating’ in driving…

It doesn’t revolve around this at all.

Now you and I both know the discusion isnt about wether or not the Mass is superior to the Rosary. Nor is it about which one is more meditative. Obviously the Mass is superior in every way, shape and form

. Agreed.

The question is can the Rosary subsist (a VII friendly word…just joking ) within the context of the Mass without being a harmful hinderance to participation.

Sorry. You simply cannot contemplate/meditate on one thing while you are meditating on another. While I think the rosary is quite excellent in preparing one to focus on the Mass, I don’t think it’s most excellent in helping one to focus on the Consecration when one is meditating on say the Finding of the Lord in Temple. While all of the Mysteries may compliment the Consecration they are not the Consecration.

You sing the Agnus Dei at a NO Mass…but does mean you are suddenly singing a hymn and no longer paying attention to the Mass. Of course not.

This is just silly. This is part of the Mass.

Saying the Rosary is a barrier to participation is illogical.

So you say. I believe it more to be a barrier to focusing on the Mass when said during the Mass but can be quite adventageous to focusing on the Mass in preparation for the Mass.

 

[Hesychios]

I am amazed that this thread is still going on.

I personally am interested to see how adamantly some Latin Catholics will cling to practices like saying the rosary during Mass. I wonder if the traditionalist movement is largely composed of such people, or they are a minority?

In any case, it is an eye opener for this eastern Christian.

 

[InLight247]

You said people stop saying Rosary when Homily begins.

Before starting my detailed review of Mass before Homily, please be sure that
I have no slightest intention for arguing or debating. I simply want to cause your reasonable attention for Mass, so we may all get the most out of this most precious and holy event.

Let’s take a closer look at Mass before Homily:
1.Entrance hymn – singing is double prayer, in entrance hymn, we sing praise to God. That is an important worship. I think we should participate the community worship instead of doing individual rosary at that time.
2.Then the priest says “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", and we make the sign of Cross and say “Amen”
3.Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence. This requires our confession, and then followed by the priest’s prayer of absolution.
4.After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it should be done by all.
5.The Gloria in Excelsis Deo glorifies God the Father and the Lamb. I don’t think we ought to not sing it and do rosary here.
6.Next the priest invites the people to pray. All together with the priest, observe a brief silence so that they may be conscious of the fact that they are in God’s presence. Then the priest says the prayer which is customarily known as the Collect and through which the character of the celebration is expressed.
7.Then the readings start. It is important to listen to the Scriptures before Homily.
8.Then the Homily

I haven’t spotted any room for Rosary during Mass before Homily. If anyone just wants to say a quick “Hail Mary” during Mass here and there, that is not considered as Rosary at all. There is really not even room to say a quick “Hail Mary” when you examine carefully from step 1 through 8 above.
My point is everything has its proper time, and we ought to give our full participation in Mass.

Saying a quick “Hail Mary” here and there during Mass or give a quick reflection on one of the Rosary mysteries cannot fulfill any part of our daily Rosary commitment. It will be better to do our Rosary at other part of the day.

Rosary is our love devotion and prayer that ought to be done as much and as often as possible. Our mentality should not be quickly fulfilling it with bits and pieces here and there so we may be done with it.

Again, I am not saying that is the mentality of people saying Rosary during Mass.

 

[InLight247]

I am amazed that this thread is still going on.
I wonder if the traditionalist movement is largely composed of such people, or they are a minority?

In any case, it is an eye opener for this eastern Christian.

I can assure you saying Rosary during Mass is rare case.
I have been a Catholic since 1970, and have been in many different Parishes.I have not perssonally witnessed any case of saying rosary during Mass.

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

You said people stop saying Rosary when Homily begins.

Before starting my detailed review of Mass before Homily, please be sure that
I have no slightest intention for arguing or debating. I simply want to cause your reasonable attention for Mass, so we may all get the most out of this most precious and holy event.

Let’s take a closer look at Mass before Homily:
1.Entrance hymn – singing is double prayer, in entrance hymn, we sing praise to God. That is an important worship. I think we should participate the community worship instead of doing individual rosary at that time.
2.Then the priest says “In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit", and we make the sign of Cross and say “Amen”
3.Then the priest invites those present to take part in the Act of Penitence. This requires our confession, and then followed by the priest’s prayer of absolution.
4.After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it should be done by all.
5.The Gloria in Excelsis Deo glorifies God the Father and the Lamb. I don’t think we ought to not sing it and do rosary here.
6.Next the priest invites the people to pray. All together with the priest, observe a brief silence so that they may be conscious of the fact that they are in God’s presence. Then the priest says the prayer which is customarily known as the Collect and through which the character of the celebration is expressed.
7.Then the readings start. It is important to listen to the Scriptures before Homily.
8.Then the Homily

I haven’t spotted any room for Rosary during Mass before Homily. If anyone just wants to say a quick “Hail Mary” during Mass here and there, that is not considered as Rosary at all. There is really not even room to say a quick “Hail Mary” when you examine carefully from step 1 through 8 above.
My point is everything has its proper time, and we ought to give our full participation in Mass.

Saying a quick “Hail Mary” here and there during Mass or give a quick reflection on one of the Rosary mysteries cannot fulfill any part of our daily Rosary commitment. It will be better to do our Rosary at other part of the day.

Rosary is our love devotion and prayer that ought to be done as much and as often as possible. Our mentality should not be quickly fulfilling it with bits and pieces here and there so we may be done with it.

Again, I am not saying that is the mentality of people saying Rosary during Mass.

Were talking about a TLM here…You described the New Mass.

And I need to remind everyone on this board…that Im not encouraging anyone to pray the Rosary during the Traditional Latin Mass if it hinders their participation. But if it helps…then do it.

 

[Hesychios]

…I need to remind everyone on this board…that Im not encouraging anyone to pray the Rosary during the Traditional Latin Mass if it hinders their participation. But if it helps…then do it.

By what standard shall we consider it as a help? How can one know?

 

[Hesychios]

Were talking about a TLM here…You described the New Mass.

Can someone here detail the Traditional Latin Mass in the way the Ordo Normativa is detailed above?

Thanks,
Michael

If you’d like to discuss the the details of the TLM rite, please start a new thread. Thank you for your cooperation. Moderator.