Rosary during Mass.

[Missa_Solemnis]

Pretty simple question…

I’ve never actually done it myself, since we usually pray the Rosary before Mass. But what exactly is wrong with praying the Rosary during a Traditional latin Mass?

I hear this come up all the time in the “TLM hindered participation” movement.

Isnt meditating on the Mysteries of the Passion while the very same events are being made present on the altar a good thing?

I can see why meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries during the Sacrifice of the Mass could be very spiritually fullfilling.

Didnt a Pope (Pius XII???) even recommend praying the Rosary during Mass.

When I pray the Rosary at Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament I really feel like both Mary, the Saints, and myself are united in worship of our Eucharistic Lord.

Why is that wrong during the Mass?

 

[Caesar]

Pretty simple question…

I’ve never actually done it myself, since we usually pray the Rosary before Mass. But what exactly is wrong with praying the Rosary during a Traditional latin Mass?

I hear this come up all the time in the “TLM hindered participation” movement.

Isnt meditating on the Mysteries of the Passion while the very same events are being made present on the altar a good thing?

I can see why meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries during the Sacrifice of the Mass could be very spiritually fullfilling.

Didnt a Pope (Pius XII???) even recommend praying the Rosary during Mass.

When I pray the Rosary at Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament I really feel like both Mary, the Saints, and myself are united in worship of our Eucharistic Lord.

Why is that wrong during the Mass?

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

 

[blessedtoo]

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

Oh my gosh! Have you been to my Church?

 

[LilyM]

Pretty simple question…

I’ve never actually done it myself, since we usually pray the Rosary before Mass. But what exactly is wrong with praying the Rosary during a Traditional latin Mass?

I hear this come up all the time in the “TLM hindered participation” movement.

Isnt meditating on the Mysteries of the Passion while the very same events are being made present on the altar a good thing?

I can see why meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries during the Sacrifice of the Mass could be very spiritually fullfilling.

Didnt a Pope (Pius XII???) even recommend praying the Rosary during Mass.

When I pray the Rosary at Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament I really feel like both Mary, the Saints, and myself are united in worship of our Eucharistic Lord.

Why is that wrong during the Mass?

Because Adoration ISN’T Mass. Mass is the public prayer of the church par excellence. It is the most perfect, valuable prayer you will ever have anything to do with. Traditionalists fight tooth and nail, to and beyond the point of schism, because they believe so strongly in its value precisely as it stands. Why on earth, having done so, having your ‘best thing this side of heaven’, you would then inject a mightily inferior, though worthy, prayer into it is beyond me.

I can well imagine your reaction if I were to tell you that liturgical dance, rock music and so on during Mass made me feel more like ‘Mary, the Saints and myself are united in the worship of our Eucharistic Lord’. Even were I genuinely to believe so, you’d say, and quite rightly, “THE MASS IS NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU FEEL!” You have done time and again over different private interpolations into the Mass.

Well, why can’t I say the same about saying the Rosary during Mass, which IMHO completely misses the point of communal worship? I don’t mean that ‘active participation’ or anything like is necessary, but at least we should all be focused on the words of the SAME prayers which the priest is offering on our behalf.

 

[Unitas]

Personally, especially in a TLM, I would need to follow along too closely to pray a rosary at the same time.

off topic

Funny thing Caesar should bring up the bongos, there’s been that sort of percussionist at my Church for years, but the mics on them have always been too low. Perhaps there’s a reason lol

Our pastor, from what I can tell, has been pushing for more traditional music, we now chant the kyrie in greek whereas it used to be just recited in english. That’s at least something. Some goofier music has been replaced with older hyms I remember when there used to be organ music and no bongo-guy, there’s still work to be done but I think it’s coming along.

I remember going to my cousin’s parish (where incidently they offer the only indult mass in the metropolitan area) where they had hand-gestures during the music. It was like the happy-hands club from napolean dynamite, I honestly was inspired to laughter. That was a while ago so i’m not sure if that it still going on now. Anyways, enough of the off-topic stuff.

 

[Balance]

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

I’d like to hear what you really think about Missa Solemnis’ question Caesar. Your post is neither here nor there, really, isn’t it? Nothing wrong with jumping in just to crack a joke - I do it myself, although I *try *to steer clear of sarcasm - but I’m interested in what you’d reply to Missa.
Judging by your bio,

Interests:
Reading, Classical Roman Mass, Theology, Philosophy, biking, swimming

you might have something deeper to say. Care to share it?

 

[Balance]

For myself, I think the question should possibly be “What exactly is right with praying the rosary during a Traditional Latin Mass?”

Pretty simple question…

But what exactly is wrong with praying the Rosary during a Traditional latin Mass?

Isnt meditating on the Mysteries of the Passion while the very same events are being made present on the altar a good thing?

I can see why meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries during the Sacrifice of the Mass could be very spiritually fullfilling.

I’m not really sure why would a person need to be praying the Rosary to do that. Isn’t the Mass the same sacrifice, today, that Christ offered 2000 years ago, right there in front of you? I would have thought that that is the sorrowful mystery a person should be meditating on. I would have thought the best thing to do would be to meditate on the words, the prayers, of the Mass, rather than adding another form of prayer, as great as it is.

Didnt a Pope (Pius XII???) even recommend praying the Rosary during Mass.

Don’t know. Did he? Could you find out and get back to us?
I’m sure there has also been a pope who has recommended **not **praying the Rosary during Mass! Which one will we listen to?

When I pray the Rosary at Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament I really feel like both Mary, the Saints, and myself are united in worship of our Eucharistic Lord.

Why is that wrong during the Mass?

It’s not wrong to feel like that, but it might be less than ideal for a person to pick up their rosary beds during Mass in an attempt to seek that feeling.

 

[AJV]

Don’t know. Did he? Could you find out and get back to us?
I’m sure there has also been a pope who has recommended **not **praying the Rosary during Mass! Which one will we listen to?

I would think that the closest he came was in Mediator Dei when he said:

Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas. So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.

 

[Balance]

While we’re talking about bios… well, while I’m talking about bios,

Missa Solemnis:
Biography:
I am an Extremist, Papist, Ultra-Conservative Roman Catholic and Proud.
Religion:
Traditional Roman Catholic
**Interests:**The Traditional Latin Mass, Fighting the Ecumenical Movement, Debate
**Occupation:**A reminder to the world that scary Fire and Brimstone Catholics still exist.

What’s that all about?

Extremism is a term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common standards of ethics and reciprocity. It is usually considered by those to whom it is applied to be a pejorative term. It is typically used in reference to political and social ideologies seen as irrational, counterproductive, unjustifiable, or otherwise unacceptable to a civil society. The term connotes the illegitimacy of certain ideas or methods.

The terms “extremism” or “extremist” are almost always exonymic—i.e. applied by others rather than by a group labeling itself. Rather than labeling themselves “extremist”, those labeled as such tend to see the need for militant ideas or actions in a particular situation [like “Fighting the Ecumenical movement”]. For example, there is no political party that calls itself “right-wing extremist” or “left-wing extremist”, and there is no sect of any religion that calls itself “Extremism.”

(From Wikipedia - emphasis added.)

So, because you proudly apply the label “extremist” to yourself, you can add, to your list, another term - “non-exonymic.”

Seriously, is praying the Rosary part of being a “scary fire and brimstone Catholic”? Generation after generation of faithful Catholics, down through the ages, have regarded the Rosary as a prayer of love, an expression of mercy and redemption.
Interesting isn’t it, that there are no mysteries dedicated to Christ preaching about hell (and he did plenty of that.) Interesting that the mysteries are grouped under “Joyful,” “Glorious” and “Luminous” (but you mightnot feel comfortable with praying that last one, at least not as John Paul II gave them to us, hmm?) - quite obviously not about fire and brimstone - and “Sorrowful”: hellish, in some aspects, but not about fire and brimstone; rather all about the great love and mercy of God *saving us *from fire and brimstone.

If you really wanted to remind us that scary fire and brimstone Catholics still exist, you should start a thread titled “You’re going to burn in hell if you don’t stop that.”

And you should talk about the Rosary less - it reminds us of Mary, and of Christ, not of fire and brimstone.

 

[childofmary1143]

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

Thank you Caesar for giving me my morning laugh.

 

[Balance]

Didnt a Pope (Pius XII???) even recommend praying the Rosary during Mass.

AJV Quote:
I would think that the closest he came was in Mediator Dei when he said:

Quote:
*Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas. So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them. *

Is that what you were referring to, Missa Solemnis?

 

[Balance]

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

Thank you Caesar for giving me my morning laugh.

Hmm.
Is it actually humourous that Caesar seems to suggest that the only other option to agreeing with Missa is the option of giving approval to the actions he describes? Or is it actually pernicious?
Is that what you meant to suggest, Caesar, or were you just being less than careful? (To put it another way, were you perhaps being a bit sloppy and lazy - were you simply going for the giggles at the expense of truth?)

 

[CatholicNick]

While we’re talking about bios… well, while I’m talking about bios,

Missa Solemnis:
Biography:
I am an Extremist, Papist, Ultra-Conservative Roman Catholic and Proud.
Religion:
Traditional Roman Catholic
**Interests:**The Traditional Latin Mass, Fighting the Ecumenical Movement, Debate
**Occupation:**A reminder to the world that scary Fire and Brimstone Catholics still exist.

What’s that all about?

Extremism is a term used to describe the actions or ideologies of individuals or groups outside the perceived political center of a society; or otherwise claimed to violate common standards of ethics and reciprocity. It is usually considered by those to whom it is applied to be a pejorative term. It is typically used in reference to political and social ideologies seen as irrational, counterproductive, unjustifiable, or otherwise unacceptable to a civil society. The term connotes the illegitimacy of certain ideas or methods.

The terms “extremism” or “extremist” are almost always exonymic—i.e. applied by others rather than by a group labeling itself. Rather than labeling themselves “extremist”, those labeled as such tend to see the need for militant ideas or actions in a particular situation [like “Fighting the Ecumenical movement”]. For example, there is no political party that calls itself “right-wing extremist” or “left-wing extremist”, and there is no sect of any religion that calls itself “Extremism.”

(From Wikipedia - emphasis added.)

So, because you proudly apply the label “extremist” to yourself, you can add, to your list, another term - “non-exonymic.”

Seriously, is praying the Rosary part of being a “scary fire and brimstone Catholic”? Generation after generation of faithful Catholics, down through the ages, have regarded the Rosary as a prayer of love, an expression of mercy and redemption.
Interesting isn’t it, that there are no mysteries dedicated to Christ preaching about hell (and he did plenty of that.) Interesting that the mysteries are grouped under “Joyful,” “Glorious” and “Luminous” (but you mightnot feel comfortable with praying that last one, at least not as John Paul II gave them to us, hmm?) - quite obviously not about fire and brimstone - and “Sorrowful”: hellish, in some aspects, but not about fire and brimstone; rather all about the great love and mercy of God *saving us *from fire and brimstone.

If you really wanted to remind us that scary fire and brimstone Catholics still exist, you should start a thread titled “You’re going to burn in hell if you don’t stop that.”

And you should talk about the Rosary less - it reminds us of Mary, and of Christ, not of fire and brimstone.

I do think Missa Solemnis was being sarcastic in his bio. Also, no need to take such a tone with him, which in places sounded a little condescending.

i.e.

but you might not feel comfortable with praying that last one, at least not as John Paul II gave them to us, hmm?

 

[Genesis315]

While it’s not per se wrong, it’s really not the best.

Anyone who’s ever read the first page of the red Ecclesia Dei booklet knows St. Pius X said, “Don’t just pray during the Mass, pray the Mass.”

Here are some pertinent parts of the Catechism of Pius X:

17 Q. In hearing Holy Mass which is the best way to practise true devotion?

A. In hearing Holy Mass the best way to practise true devotion is the following: (1) From the very beginning to unite our intention with that of the priest, offering the Holy Sacrifice to God for the ends for which it was instituted. (2) To accompany the priest in each prayer and action of the Sacrifice. (3) To meditate on the passion and death of Jesus Christ And to heartily detest our sins, which have been the cause of them. (4) To go to Communion, or at least to make a spiritual Communion while the priest communicates.

19 Q. Does the recitation of the Rosary or other prayers during Mass prevent us from hearing it with profit?

A. The recitation of the Rosary and other prayers during Mass does not prevent us from hearing it with profit, provided we try As far as possible to follow the parts of the Holy Sacrifice.

 

[CatholicNick]

Hmm.
Is it actually humourous that Caesar seems to suggest that the only other option to agreeing with Missa is the option of giving approval to the actions he describes? Or is it actually pernicious?
Is that what you meant to suggest, Caesar, or were you just being less than careful? (To put it another way, were you perhaps being a bit sloppy and lazy - were you simply going for the giggles at the expense of truth?)

Maybe you read into what is written obviously as a joke, far too much?

 

[Hesychios]

The Mass is the premier prayer of the church, bar none. It was instituted by Christ.

The rosary, by comparison, is a private devotion of relatively recent vintage, it was a simple way for people to pray like the monastics do. It basically was a substitute for the breviary.

Doing ANY other devotion during Mass is an abuse. Surely Traditionalists would know this. Rosary can be done at any time.

The fact that it was a very common abuse before Vatican II does not justify it now. The fact that even one Pope approved of it in the past does not make it right (using that standard one can with just a little digging find approval for quite a few strange and innapropriate things, Popes are not impeccable).

Michael

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Because you should be up standing around the altar clapping and swaying to the beat of the conga drums, reading in vernacular and handing out Holy Communion as if you were dealing out cards for a poker game. Now is THAT active participation or what?

Very disappointing.

Nice how you have turned a question about an abuse that the laity does during the TLM into a slam against some abuses in the normative Mass.

Just can’t hold back those attacks?

 

[Rykell]

M.S.:

I can see why meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries during the Sacrifice of the Mass could be very spiritually fullfilling.

Indeed, and may I suggest another spiritually fulfilling devotion? Why not do the Stations of the Cross while mass is being celebrated, to focus on the sorrowful mysteries.

 

[CatholicNick]

(using that standard one can with just a little digging find approval for quite a few strange and innapropriate things,** Popes are not impeccable**).

Michael

Maybe you should tell that to some of the supposed “orthodox” Catholics on this forum.

Indeed, and may I suggest another spiritually fulfilling devotion? Why not do the Stations of the Cross while mass is being celebrated, to focus on the sorrowful mysteries.

Ah yes… any point in saying that?