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timjp77
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Maybe because traditional minded Catholics see the comparison between the monkey business that passes for Mass at a NO service and the TLM. One either must joke about it or cry.
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bear06
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MarSarkees -
Did you ever find a source for the Pope Pius and the rosary story?
Did you ever find a source for the Pope Pius and the rosary story?
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bear06
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I agree with Bear06
I’m sure it’s bound to happen sometimes. Just lay down and the shock will wear off. 
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MarSarkees
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No, but then again I wasn’t looking for one either. I heard it
from a Novus Ordo priest I know. He was lamenting the liturgy
facists, slashing and burning their way to liturgical harmony.
He must have caught radical traditionalism!
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bear06
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Argh! I wish people would stop using this supposed story of a pope saying the rosary during the Mass as an example of why it’s OK until it is proven. I haven’t been able to find a citing of this anywhere and Novus Ordo priest or not, it doesn’t appear to be accurate. I realize that you were just taking this story at the priests word so don’t take my comments as aimed at you. The moral of the tale is: Check your sources!
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ctos
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Mediator Dei, paragraph 108:
“108. Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas. So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.”
“108. Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas. So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.”
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MarSarkees
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Well he is the director of liturgy for his diocese, and has been around the ecclesiastical block if you will. I hate to burstArgh! I wish people would stop using this supposed story of a pope saying the rosary during the Mass as an example of why it’s OK until it is proven. I haven’t been able to find a citing of this anywhere and Novus Ordo priest or not, it doesn’t appear to be accurate. I realize that you were just taking this story at the priests word so don’t take my comments as aimed at you. The moral of the tale is: Check your sources!
your bubble, but not everything that has ever happened in the history of the Church can be found in an official Vatican document.
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LilyM
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Yes, and most untrue stories that have unofficially been spread about the Popes aren’t worth the breath it takes to repeat them, either.
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MarSarkees
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Word
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bear06
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I’m not looking for a document - hate to burst your bubble. I’ll take a book (one that can be referenced by Dave, hopefully), link from a reputable source (i.e. not novusordowatch), etc. Like I said, I’ve spent a lot of time googling this one and you think that those who spend so much time saying that it’s fine to say the rosary during Mass would know exactly where to find this one and yet I haven’t seen a source yet.
I do have to laugh at the “director of liturgy” thing. I don’t think this would hold a whole lot of weight in most areas. I’m not saying that your priest is a bad guy because, well, I don’t know him in the least. I just thought it was funny. It’s entirely possible he read it on these forums.
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mgy100
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Refer back to my earlier post.
I may add this. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition we use a prayer rope for private devotion to say the Jesus Prayer.
When a bishop enters the church to celebrate liturgy he gives up his prayer rope before entering the church (of course he gets it back at the end). This is because the liturgy is the work of the people. It is not a time for private devotions (prayer rope, rosary), it is a time for the community to come together to worship and celebrate. The Bishop taking off his prayer rope is a sign of that communal prayer, that we should shed ourselves of private devotions during the liturgy/mass.
I may add this. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition we use a prayer rope for private devotion to say the Jesus Prayer.
When a bishop enters the church to celebrate liturgy he gives up his prayer rope before entering the church (of course he gets it back at the end). This is because the liturgy is the work of the people. It is not a time for private devotions (prayer rope, rosary), it is a time for the community to come together to worship and celebrate. The Bishop taking off his prayer rope is a sign of that communal prayer, that we should shed ourselves of private devotions during the liturgy/mass.
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AJV
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Sorry to resurrect this thread but I wanted to correct myself somewhat: I just ran across a decision of the SCR (given 17 April, 1753) that permitted singing of *Tantum Ergo *or other antiphons of the Blessed Sacrament during the elevation. Evidently permission for singing during the Mass must have been overturned during or after the pontificate of St. Pius X (I would guess the former)
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Leonius
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Its fine to say the Rosary during Mass, Christ is present in his mysteries. Here is a document from a priest were he mentions it, this priest is a ordinary parish priest in good standing who prays both the ordinary and extraordinary form of the Mass.
Document about how to pray at Mass
The Priest in questions blog
Document about how to pray at Mass
The Priest in questions blog
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Leonius
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At Mass you are supposed to do several things the first been adoration, it is the same Eucharist at mass as at adoration after all.
Lets look at the Baltimore catechism shall we.
All of which can be done by saying the Rosary, particularly the sorrowful mysteries.
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LilyM
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And how exactly are the prayers of the Mass inadequate in offering this adoration that is due the Blessed Sacrament? Or in promoting that interior recollection and right disposition that is required at Mass?
How exactly is the Rosary in any way shape or form BETTER in offering that adoration, promoting that interior recollection etc than paying attention to and praying right along with the prayers of the Mass?
Praying the Rosary during Mass is like trying to eat an egg with chopsticks - it can be done, sure, but chopsticks are certainly not the best tools with which to do it, so why not break out the knife and fork since you have them!
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Leonius
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The question I believe was whether it is ok to do it or not, the answer to which is yes.
Which way is better is a separate topic is it not? And could quite possibly come down to personal preference in the end given that Mass should very much be about interior participation and what aids that best for one person can be different for another.
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LilyM
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There’s not really room for personal preference here.
The very way the Church structures its public worship demonstrates its teachings on the matter. The prayers of the Mass are compulsory always and in every circumstance, the Rosary is not, in any circumstance. This is for good reason.
If praying the Rosary were in any way an adequate substitute for praying the prayers of the Mass then one of two things would happen:
a) the Rosary would also be a compulsory prayer just as the Mass is or
b) we would be permitted to say the Rosary on Sundays and skip Mass altogether, as our prefence moved us.
Surely this would include priests as well - if the Rosary is permissible for us then why not for them, after all for some of them it might also be the best way to aid their participation in the Mass, no?
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Leonius
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You seem to be suffering from a number of misconceptions.
- It is not compulsory for the laity at mass to say the prayers, in fact mass can be said by a priest on his own without any lay involvement whatsoever. This is because mass is primarily A SACRIFICE and as such only requires a priest to offer it to God.
- The office and duties of Priest and Laity are not the same, while the layperson is saying the Rosary the Priest and Altar server/s are saying the prayers of the Mass for ALL the laity present and offering those prayers combined with all the prayers of the laity present including any Rosary’s been said up to God. The Priest says Mass, the laity hear Mass and offer it in union with the priest along with their own prayers.
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LilyM
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So if it’s good enough just for the priest to say the prayers on our behalf then why do we need to be there on Sundays either, why doesn’t he just offer them on our behalf without our presence on that day too?
Of course we are there so that we can pray along with him, and of course the best way to do that is to pray the actual prayers, which are stipulated precisely because they ARE the best prayers we can offer!
No, it’s not the only way to do things, but it IS the best. And Jesus didn’t tell us to ‘be OK as your heavenly Father is OK’, He said be PERFECT. The Mass is the perfect prayer, fullstop. For priest and laity, which is why our attendance on Sundays is obligatory, and it’s the only obligatory prayer we are ever required to make.
And the most perfect way we can participate is to pray along with the priest in the same words. It’s not farfetched or misconceiving things to assert that the most perfect way to unite ourselves with the prayers of the Mass is to PRAY THEM! It’s self-evident.
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Leonius
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The prayer is not obligatory only the attendance is, a small point but an important one. Laity CANNOT say Mass.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this, we do not pray the same words as the priest, and praying the same words as the person next to us is really irrelevant, it is not necessary to do the exact same thing as everyone else at mass.
Read this again:
A. The best manner of hearing Mass(Note. Because laity do not say the Mass they hear it) is to offer it to God with the priest **for the same purpose for which it is said, to meditate on Christ’s sufferings and death, and to go to Holy Communion.
**
Also read this:
ie. some personal preference is allowed among the laity because the prayers in the missal are not the best thing for everyone.
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