Rosary during Tridentine Mass, I heard it!

[Holy_Roller]

People here on this forum keep telling me that the Rosary is not said during the Tridentine Mass, but I heard it again at Saint Margaret Mary Church in Oakland last week during the 6 PM Tridentine Low Mass in Latin. It was during the Mass of the 1962 Missal Ordo Missae. I believe it was the Tridentine Mass of the Faithful - Closing Prayers? But the Church Bulletin has that Mass listed as the Vigil of St. Lawrence with an alternate Comm. St. Romanus.

Below is what I think heard during low mass:

Prayers After Low Mas

Kneel

P. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

S. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen. Said three times.

S. Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy towards us. And after this our excile, show unto us the blessed Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

P. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.

S. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
.
P. Let us pray: O God, our refuge and our strength, look down with favor upon Thy people who cry to Thee; and by the intercession of the glorious and Immaculate Virgin Mary, Mother of God, of St. Joseph her Spouse, of Thy blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and of all the Saints, mercifully and graciously hear the prayers which we pour forth for the conversion of sinners, and for the liberty and exaltation of our holy Mother the Church. Through the same Christ our Lord.

S. Amen.

P. Most Sacred Heart of Jesus,

S. Have mercy on us. Said three times.

Here is a link for the text:

catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/TextContents/Index/4/SubIndex/66/TextIndex/17

 

[tradcathconvert]

Those prayers aren’t the Rosary. They are the traditional prayers at the end of a low Mass. Here is a link to information on the Rosary: angelqueen.org/rosary/how_to.shtml

 

[AJV]

People here on this forum keep telling me that the Rosary is not said during the Tridentine Mass, but I heard it again at Saint Margaret Mary Church in Oakland last week during the 6 PM Tridentine Low Mass in Latin. It was during the Mass of the 1962 Missal Ordo Missae. I believe it was the Tridentine Mass of the Faithful - Closing Prayers? But the Church Bulletin has that Mass listed as the Vigil of St. Lawrence with an alternate Comm. St. Romanus.

In addition to what was noted by the previous poster (not the rosary) it is technically after Mass.

I’m not sure whether the prayers are mandatory although many Traditional priests would add them (and I guess the Church could use them))

 

[Pandora]

No, they are the prayers after Low Mass and it is not the rosary but we do say the Hail Mary 3 times along with the Salve Regina, A Collect and the prayer to St. Michael. Some times they will also say the Divine Praises. My Mass is the noon Mass so we say The Angelus and horrors it contains Hail Mary’s too.

Prayers after Low Mass: (said kneeling)

HAIL, Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus!
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen. (3 times)

HAIL, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy;
our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of
Eve;
To thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.
Turn then, most gracious Advocate,
thine eyes of mercy towards us:
and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed
fruit of thy womb Jesus.

O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary!

V. Pray for us, O holy Mother
of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray. O God, our refuge and our strength, look down in mercy on Thy people who cry to Thee, and by the intercession of the glorious and immaculate Virgin Mary, Mother of God, of St. Joseph her Spouse, of Thy blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and of all the saints, in mercy and goodness hear our prayers for the conversion of sinners, and for the liberty and exultation of our holy Mother the Church. Through the same Christ our Lord.

R. Amen.

SAINT Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle; be our protection against the wickedness
and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray:
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God, cast into hell Satan
and all the wicked spirits who roam through the world
seeking the ruin of souls.

R. Amen.

 

[Holy_Roller]

No, they are the prayers after Low Mass and it is not the rosary but we do say the Hail Mary 3 times along with the Salve Regina, A Collect and the prayer to St. Michael. Some times they will also say the Divine Praises. My Mass is the noon Mass so we say The Angelus and horrors it contains Hail Mary’s too.

Prayers after Low Mass: (said kneeling)

HAIL, Mary, full of grace! The Lord is with thee;
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus!
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen. (3 times)

HAIL, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy;
our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of
Eve;
To thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this vale of tears.
Turn then, most gracious Advocate,
thine eyes of mercy towards us:
and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed
fruit of thy womb Jesus.

O clement, O loving,
O sweet Virgin Mary!

V. Pray for us, O holy Mother
of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray. O God, our refuge and our strength, look down in mercy on Thy people who cry to Thee, and by the intercession of the glorious and immaculate Virgin Mary, Mother of God, of St. Joseph her Spouse, of Thy blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and of all the saints, in mercy and goodness hear our prayers for the conversion of sinners, and for the liberty and exultation of our holy Mother the Church. Through the same Christ our Lord.

R. Amen.

SAINT Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle; be our protection against the wickedness
and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray:
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host,
by the power of God, cast into hell Satan
and all the wicked spirits who roam through the world
seeking the ruin of souls.

R. Amen.

Okay, thanks for the quick answer before this thread turns into another Apologetic Debate. That answer got me straightened out, for sure. I should say that the Hail Mary is said 3 times during the Tridentine Mass.

I like the next verse about the Archangel Michael. I’m thinking about scotch taping it to my computer screen.

Richard

 

[jabelltulsa]

People here on this forum keep telling me that the Rosary is not said during the Tridentine Mass

I have attended the Traditional Mass since I was a child. The rosary is said at every one before Mass starts. I have said it during Mass on some Sundays when I felt compelled to (usually only a decade or two, so as not to miss the Scripture Reading or Gospel).

Was there a debate about this being done during the Mass by the priest and laity?

 

[palmas85]

Okay, thanks for the quick answer before this thread turns into another Apologetic Debate. That answer got me straightened out, for sure. I should say that the Hail Mary is said 3 times during the Tridentine Mass.

I like the next verse about the Archangel Michael. I’m thinking about scotch taping it to my computer screen.

Richard

Actually the three Hail Marys are said after the Mass and that is only after the Low Mass. After a High Mass you don’t say them.

 

[Holy_Roller]

I have attended the Traditional Mass since I was a child. The rosary is said at every one before Mass starts. I have said it during Mass on some Sundays when I felt compelled to (usually only a decade or two, so as not to miss the Scripture Reading or Gospel).

Was there a debate about this being done during the Mass by the priest and laity?

I have a habit of just touching a statue on the way out of church. I doubt if there is any spiritual significance, it’s probably just a gesture of affection?

Richard

 

[palmas85]

I have attended the Traditional Mass since I was a child. The rosary is said at every one before Mass starts. I have said it during Mass on some Sundays when I felt compelled to (usually only a decade or two, so as not to miss the Scripture Reading or Gospel).

Was there a debate about this being done during the Mass by the priest and laity?

One of the oldest and least correct assertions trumepted by the Traditional Mass haters is that the faithful, bound by ignorance of what was going on at the altar were left with nothing to do except say their rosaries.

Even though this particular bit of propaganda has pretty much successfully dispelled, it still surfaces from time to time and only and I do mean only those with an agenda against the Traditional Mass or those with no knowledge of the Traditional Mass put any stock into it at all.

As far as Rosaries before and after Mass, a great idea and very very common, both in the Traditional and and the Pauline… Saying the Rosary during Mass yes, some people did, and some still do, both in the Traditional and the Pauline Rite. It wasn’t by and large done through ignorance or inability to understand what was going on, it was and still is merely that persons way of worship and connecting with Christ on a more personal level.

Much ado about basically nothing, but the haters do take every opportunity to impugn the Traditional Mass. That is why the Motu Proprio scared them so much. Soon, people are going to be able to see, on a much more common level just what lies and misinformation have been bandied about by the more progressive minded among us.

 

[AJV]

I have a habit of just touching a statue on the way out of church. I doubt if there is any spiritual significance, it’s probably just a gesture of affection?

Richard

Maybe it was originally for you a gesture of veneration? At my church, after the Mass (some do it after the communion) a lot of people go to kiss the Sacred Heart and OL Perpetual Help pictures and say a short prayer. Some also do it for St. Anthony, St. Pio, and St. John the Baptist.

 

[jabelltulsa]

One of the oldest and least correct assertions trumepted by the Traditional Mass haters is that the faithful, bound by ignorance of what was going on at the altar were left with nothing to do except say their rosaries.

LOL

I must be sheltered … never heard that one. That’s silly talk.

I love the Liturgy, and I love the rosary. Praise be to God … I have both, and much more!

 

[lak611]

Okay, thanks for the quick answer before this thread turns into another Apologetic Debate. That answer got me straightened out, for sure. I should say that the Hail Mary is said 3 times during the Tridentine Mass.

I like the next verse about the Archangel Michael. I’m thinking about scotch taping it to my computer screen.

Richard

Technically, the Mass is over after this part:

Final Prayer and Dismissal

P. Dominus vobiscum.
S. Et cum spiritu tuo.
P. Ite, Missa est.
S. Deo gratias. P. May the Lord be with you.
S. And with your spirit
P/D. Go, you are sent forth.
S. Thanks be to God.
(or in Masses for the dead)

P.Requiescant in pace S. Amen

(or in Masses for the dead)

P. May they rest in peace. S. Amen.

. Although the Last Gospel is said. The Marian prayers and the Prayer to St. Michael are also said after the Low Mass.

 

[palmas85]

LOL

I must be sheltered … never heard that one. That’s silly talk.

I love the Liturgy, and I love the rosary. Praise be to God … I have both, and much more!

Very silly and pretty much put in its proper place, but every now and then someone will try to bring it up. This forum has had numerous threads on it over the past several years.

 

[AJV]

Was there a debate about this being done during the Mass by the priest and laity?

One of the oldest and least correct assertions trumepted by the Traditional Mass haters is that the faithful, bound by ignorance of what was going on at the altar were left with nothing to do except say their rosaries.

Even though this particular bit of propaganda has pretty much successfully dispelled, it still surfaces from time to time and only and I do mean only those with an agenda against the Traditional Mass or those with no knowledge of the Traditional Mass put any stock into it at all. .

This particular thread though was because the OP, having visited the TLM at St. Margaret Mary’s, felt he had heard the rosary recited.

Everything was traditional as I remember it, including the Priest facing the alter, the gestures made by the alter boys, and the Rosary as part of the Mass.

Posts 13-15

 

[VincentO]

Was the Rosary said in the past? I’m unsure. However, my grandmother’s missal from the 1930s/40s (it has an Imprimatur, dated 1936), suggests the following ways to ‘follow the holy mass with piety and fruit’:

(All CAPS are as in the original text)

1. Read in the prayer book the prayers which correspond to the various parts of the Mass i.e follow the order of the Mass in connection with the Proper of the Season; or
2. Follow all the ceremonies or the Mass and say the sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on each mystery: or
3. Say Mass with the Priest to ADORE God, to THANK Him and to IMPLORE His pardon, and to ASK for new graces. In order to express this worship say

a - From the Confiteor to the Offertory ATTENTIVELY and SLOWLY five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary TO ADORE GOD.

b- From the Offertory to the Elevation, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to GIVE THANKS TO GOD.

c- From the Elevation to the Communion, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to DO PENANCE and TO OBTAIN REMISSION OF SINS,

d - From the Communion to the Last Gospel, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to BESEECH MERCY FOR YOURSELF AND OTHERS

…

So it suggest to me that it has been acceptable in the past to say the Rosary during Mass. Perhaps this is a hang-over from that time?

 

[KathleenElsie]

Was the Rosary said in the past? I’m unsure. However, my grandmother’s missal from the 1930s/40s (it has an Imprimatur, dated 1936), suggests the following ways to ‘follow the holy mass with piety and fruit’:

(All CAPS are as in the original text)

1. Read in the prayer book the prayers which correspond to the various parts of the Mass i.e follow the order of the Mass in connection with the Proper of the Season; or
2. Follow all the ceremonies or the Mass and say the sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on each mystery: or
3. Say Mass with the Priest to ADORE God, to THANK Him and to IMPLORE His pardon, and to ASK for new graces. In order to express this worship say

a - From the Confiteor to the Offertory ATTENTIVELY and SLOWLY five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary TO ADORE GOD.

b- From the Offertory to the Elevation, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to GIVE THANKS TO GOD.

c- From the Elevation to the Communion, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to DO PENANCE and TO OBTAIN REMISSION OF SINS,

d - From the Communion to the Last Gospel, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to BESEECH MERCY FOR YOURSELF AND OTHERS

…

So it suggest to me that it has been acceptable in the past to say the Rosary during Mass. Perhaps this is a hang-over from that time?

For this when the prayers of the priest could not be followed then yes it was ok for the people to pray the rosary. To be honest if I were to go to a Mass in the native tong of say French and did not know French. Saying the rosary quietly to God when I was unable to follow the Mass would be something I might do. It would make me feel like I was part of the celebration and not left totally out in the cold.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Was the Rosary said in the past? I’m unsure. However, my grandmother’s missal from the 1930s/40s (it has an Imprimatur, dated 1936), suggests the following ways to ‘follow the holy mass with piety and fruit’:

(All CAPS are as in the original text)

1. Read in the prayer book the prayers which correspond to the various parts of the Mass i.e follow the order of the Mass in connection with the Proper of the Season; or
2. Follow all the ceremonies or the Mass and say the sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on each mystery: or
3. Say Mass with the Priest to ADORE God, to THANK Him and to IMPLORE His pardon, and to ASK for new graces. In order to express this worship say

a - From the Confiteor to the Offertory ATTENTIVELY and SLOWLY five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary TO ADORE GOD.

b- From the Offertory to the Elevation, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to GIVE THANKS TO GOD.

c- From the Elevation to the Communion, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to DO PENANCE and TO OBTAIN REMISSION OF SINS,

d - From the Communion to the Last Gospel, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to BESEECH MERCY FOR YOURSELF AND OTHERS

…

So it suggest to me that it has been acceptable in the past to say the Rosary during Mass. Perhaps this is a hang-over from that time?

But this is not the rosary. This was sending fouth the prayers of the faithful at Mass.

 

[batteddy]

So it suggest to me that it has been acceptable in the past to say the Rosary during Mass. Perhaps this is a hang-over from that time?

All those things are tolerable, I guess, but not ideal.

It’s a big difference.

Protestants may be downright scandalized that Catholics did this sort of thing…but as a traditional Catholic, I’m merely annoyed.

Because the Mass works ex opere operato…so the people don’t technically have to follow along or make any responses for the Mass to be effective, for them to fullfill their obligation, or for them to recieve the graces when they take communion.

However…it is sort of a Renaissance liturgical decadence that the people stopped making the responses and this lead to the vaguely confused, detatched, disjointed scene seen at so many old rite masses.

The principles of the Liturgical Movement of the 19th and early 20th century, and the Medieval ideal, had the people following along, singing the Ordinary, making the ordinary responses, following along in missal if available.

Praying the rosary, following along with seperate prayers composed for the parts of the mass, repeating paters or aves while the priest did his thing and the singers did theirs…are not ideal practice by any stretch.

But, admittedly, they are more tolerable than protestants would have people imagine. Because for Catholics the participation of the people is not the substance of the service, the priest’s actions are, the sacrament that works objectively by the fact of it being done validly.

But it is a lot subjectively better and more ideal if these things aren’t done. If the people are actively engaged and hear what’s going on and follow it.

 

[palmas85]

Was the Rosary said in the past? I’m unsure. However, my grandmother’s missal from the 1930s/40s (it has an Imprimatur, dated 1936), suggests the following ways to ‘follow the holy mass with piety and fruit’:

(All CAPS are as in the original text)

1. Read in the prayer book the prayers which correspond to the various parts of the Mass i.e follow the order of the Mass in connection with the Proper of the Season; or
2. Follow all the ceremonies or the Mass and say the sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on each mystery: or
3. Say Mass with the Priest to ADORE God, to THANK Him and to IMPLORE His pardon, and to ASK for new graces. In order to express this worship say

a - From the Confiteor to the Offertory ATTENTIVELY and SLOWLY five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary TO ADORE GOD.

b- From the Offertory to the Elevation, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to GIVE THANKS TO GOD.

c- From the Elevation to the Communion, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to DO PENANCE and TO OBTAIN REMISSION OF SINS,

d - From the Communion to the Last Gospel, five times the Our Father and five times the Hail Mary to BESEECH MERCY FOR YOURSELF AND OTHERS

…

So it suggest to me that it has been acceptable in the past to say the Rosary during Mass. Perhaps this is a hang-over from that time?

What you have just described is not a Rosary, but merely advice on reciting various prayers while the Priest prays. Thats all. It was never a mandate or required.

 

[VincentO]

What you have just described is not a Rosary, but merely advice on reciting various prayers while the Priest prays. Thats all. It was never a mandate or required.

The ‘five times’ part is not the Rosary, no, but read again option 2. "Follow the ceremonies of the Mass and SAY the sorrowful mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on each mystery.

There is a further option, 3 which has the ‘five times’ option.

I know this is not exactly the Rosary but if you were to see someone doing this then you may well think that they were actually saying it.