Rosary during Tridentine Mass, I heard it!

[HollyDolly]

many years since I attended a tradtional mass.However,as a kid going to St.Paul’s in San Antonio,i don’t recall people reciting as a GROUP,the rosary before mass. Most people I believe did it as individual,as I never recall everyone in the church doing so.
Both my parents grew up in the 1920s and 30s and i don’t recall them saying anything about the people in church reciting the rosary before mass,especially my dad who was an altar boy at St.John’s in Hot Springs,Ark.

I remember him saying that the local radio station would broadcast Midnight Mass from there,and that even some protestants wouldshow up,to see the splender and beauty of the mass .These people most likely had kids in the school,as my dad and Uncle Tom attended the school and daddy said many of the students were non catholics.he went to school with some of the heirs to the Reynolds Tobacco family.He even pointed out their house in Hot Springs.

It maybe that in the past,some parishes recited the rosary before mass,and others didn’t.I think it just depends on the customs of the priest and parishioners.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

As far as Rosaries before and after Mass, a great idea and very very common, both in the Traditional and and the Pauline… Saying the Rosary during Mass yes, some people did, and some still do, both in the Traditional and the Pauline Rite. It wasn’t by and large done through ignorance or inability to understand what was going on, it was and still is merely that persons way of worship and connecting with Christ on a more personal level.

What can be more personal than the Sacrifice of the Mass itself? I agree by and large with the rest of your post except the last sentence of this paragraph.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<—Quote (Originally by palmas85)—
As far as Rosaries before and after Mass, a great idea and very very common, both in the Traditional and and the Pauline… Saying the Rosary during Mass yes, some people did, and some still do, both in the Traditional and the Pauline Rite. It wasn’t by and large done through ignorance or inability to understand what was going on, it was and still is merely that persons way of worship and connecting with Christ on a more personal level.
—End Quote—
What can be more personal than the Sacrifice of the Mass itself? I agree by and large with the rest of your post except the last sentence of this paragraph.

---

The Eastern tradition frowns upon any personal devotions during the service. One should attend to the prayers and actions of the Holy Services themselves.

 

[palmas85]

What can be more personal than the Sacrifice of the Mass itself? I agree by and large with the rest of your post except the last sentence of this paragraph.

Every one is different in how they approach the Mass. It is not at all uncommon for people to feel closer to God through practices outside of the Mass such as Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament , Expositions of the Blessed Sacrament, Rosaries, Novenas etc. While the Mass is the ultimate it is far from the only way to come closer to God.

From the post I wonder how you feel about private devotions overall. Are they OK in some contexts but not in others? Some people feel that way, which I think is the result of exaltation of the communal involvement in the Mass at the expense of ones private devotion to Christ. A lot of people feel you cannot or should not do both and that ALL.worship must be communal in nature. That unfortunately, is a very prevalent idea which grew up after Vatican II and is slowly starting to go away as it should.

Did you know that after Vatican II, in what was an apparent attempt on the part of some to completely strip Catholicism of all devotions outside of the Mass, many churches actually removed all statues of Mary and the Saints? They were considered to be distraction and relics of a more superstitious time and frankly incompatible with current thinking and theology? In fact, while now more uncommon than in years past many Churches still do not have statues or even crucifixes which were also seen as distratctions.

Marian devotion in particular, of which the Rosary is one of many, was hard hit and really didn’t recover until the assasination attempt on Pope John Paul II in which he claims the Virgin was responsible for saving his life. It was only after that that it once again became acceptable in some places to once again have devotions to the Blessed Mother and the Saints…

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<in what was an apparent attempt on the part of some to completely strip Catholicism of all devotions outside of the Mass,>.

Then why did V2 urge the Laity to recite the Divine Office, or at least part of it?

 

[lak611]

<<in what was an apparent attempt on the part of some to completely strip Catholicism of all devotions outside of the Mass,>.

Then why did V2 urge the Laity to recite the Divine Office, or at least part of it?

Was this something that was actually written in the documents of V2, or was it something that was mentioned by some priests/bishops after V2? I never heard of the Divine Office until I joined this forum (I was actually here before the date listed on my profile but lost all my old posts in the crash). I never heard a priest talk about the Divine Office or mention it in a church bulletin.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<Was this something that was actually written in the documents of V2, or was it something that was mentioned by some priests/bishops after V2? I never heard of the Divine Office until I joined this forum (I was actually here before the date listed on my profile but lost all my old posts in the crash). I never heard a priest talk about the Divine Office or mention it in a church bulletin.
*************** >>

As a matter of fact, lay people were starting to recite the office in the vernacular before Vatican 2. Many editions of the Breviary and Diurnal (day hours, Lauds-Compline) were made available. The editions published by Benziger and Stanbrook Abbey come to mind. Then there was the enormously popular “Short Breviary” by St. John’s Abbey in Collegeville.

I’m surprised you never heard of the Divine Office before you joined this site. I have a friend who went to Catholic elementary schools before V2 and high school and knew about it back then.

 

[lak611]

<<Was this something that was actually written in the documents of V2, or was it something that was mentioned by some priests/bishops after V2? I never heard of the Divine Office until I joined this forum (I was actually here before the date listed on my profile but lost all my old posts in the crash). I never heard a priest talk about the Divine Office or mention it in a church bulletin.
*************** >>

As a matter of fact, lay people were starting to recite the office in the vernacular before Vatican 2. Many editions of the Breviary and Diurnal (day hours, Lauds-Compline) were made available. The editions published by Benziger and Stanbrook Abbey come to mind. Then there was the enormously popular “Short Breviary” by St. John’s Abbey in Collegeville.

I’m surprised you never heard of the Divine Office before you joined this site. I have a friend who went to Catholic elementary schools before V2 and high school and knew about it back then.

It was never mentioned in CCD, Catholic high school or Catholic college.

 

[batteddy]

<<in what was an apparent attempt on the part of some to completely strip Catholicism of all devotions outside of the Mass,>.

Then why did V2 urge the Laity to recite the Divine Office, or at least part of it?

Huh? Urging the laity to recite the Divine Office is PART of the “no private devotions” mentality.

Because the Divine Office is, technically, public liturgy.

Now, I think it’s great that laity are actually reciting what was once something limited so much to clergy, and so rich in prayer.

But…the “let’s replace rosaries and little offices with only official Liturgy”…includes the promotion of the Divine Office for laity to a degree. It isn’t a private devotion, it’s public liturgy, so it seems to have been promoted in an attempt to replace the “superstitions” of the past…which was unnecessary as they weren’t superstitious at all.

 

[lak611]

Huh? Urging the laity to recite the Divine Office is PART of the “no private devotions” mentality.

Because the Divine Office is, technically, public liturgy.

Now, I think it’s great that laity are actually reciting what was once something limited so much to clergy, and so rich in prayer.

But…the “let’s replace rosaries and little offices with only official Liturgy”…includes the promotion of the Divine Office for laity to a degree. It isn’t a private devotion, it’s public liturgy, so it seems to have been promoted in an attempt to replace the “superstitions” of the past…which was unnecessary as they weren’t superstitious at all.

Are there any churches that actually recite the Divine Office with the laity? I just do not see that being very feasible since most people would not be able to get to church in the morning and afternoon due to their work schedules. Many parishes do not even offer daily Mass in the evening.

 

[batteddy]

Many parishes do not even offer daily Mass in the evening.

Evening Mass is not traditional anyway.

But many churches these days do have Morning Prayer (Lauds) and Evening Prayer (Vespers) offered publically.

The other hours are usually said privately be the priests, and though choral recitation is the norm and ideal, it is usually only done in religious houses or chapters of canons.

 

[bpbasilphx]

<<<<in what was an apparent attempt on the part of some to completely strip Catholicism of all devotions outside of the Mass,>.

Then why did V2 urge the Laity to recite the Divine Office, or at least part of it?
Huh? Urging the laity to recite the Divine Office is PART of the “no private devotions” mentality.>>

The key words I was replying to are “outside of Mass”.

In other words, there were more services than just the Mass.

 

[palmas85]

<<<<in what was an apparent attempt on the part of some to completely strip Catholicism of all devotions outside of the Mass,>.

Then why did V2 urge the Laity to recite the Divine Office, or at least part of it?
Huh? Urging the laity to recite the Divine Office is PART of the “no private devotions” mentality.>>

The key words I was replying to are “outside of Mass”.

In other words, there were more services than just the Mass.

The Divine Office is not, was not and will never be a “Private Devotion” so the question is really off track and shows a lack of understanding not only of what private devotions are but what the recitation of the Divine Office is.

 

[Titus]

Since the Divine Office can be recited as part of mass, it can hardly be considered a private devotion. Rather, it is the second form of public liturgy in the church, after mass. Yet since it can be said privately, it occupies an odd status. Btw, my parish has daily divine office as part of our daily mass. That was I first discovered it. It’s like a secret in many parts of the world. I wonder whether some seminarians got to seminary and had to be introduced to it as if it was some kind of mystical object from the past…

 

[Nick]

Regarding the rosary during Mass:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85409