Rosary during Tridentine Mass?

[mschrank]

At the tridentine high mass I attend on sundays, I noticed that some people seem to be praying their rosary during the mass (or at least are holding it).

Is this allowed? The people typically do not interact much with the Priest as in the Novus Ordo.

 

[Genesis315]

It may be allowed, but it is definitely not recommended. St. Pius X said, “Don’t just pray during the Mass, pray the Mass!”

 

[BobP123]

At the tridentine high mass I attend on sundays, I noticed that some people seem to be praying their rosary during the mass (or at least are holding it).

Is this allowed? The people typically do not interact much with the Priest as in the Novus Ordo.

There is no rule against it. However, I fail to see how anyone can obtain full amount of the graces of having attended Mass if he or she doesn’t follow it. That is the reason for having Missals.

 

[AJV]

Some points raised in a previous thread. may assist you

 

[batteddy]

At a Novus Ordo mass, this would make you practically anathema maranatha.

But at the Tridentine, it is tolerated. Because of a different understanding, or at least emphasis, about the Mass.

It certainly isn’t encouraged. As Pope St. Pius X said, following along with the actions at the altar is ideal.

BUT, the Mass happens without your participation, and just being there fullfills your obligation.

In an age where Latin-English missals can be cheaply printed, and literacy is common…following along is highly recommended. But as long as your at the Mass, you fullfill your obligation and are benefitted. And in ages and places where literacy was not common…well, what else could you really expect the people to do? Liturgy was not supposed to be this show, this theatre, this closed-circle interactive session between priest and people. It was public, and thus more impersonal, ritual cultus to God. And so if people can’t read, and so get more benefit praying their rosary individually, the public liturgy happens nonetheless and this is tolerable.

Still, if at all possible, following along in a missal is recommended.

In the old rite, you emphasize God and so get a community. But when you emphasize the community…you only get individuals.

In the old days, there was Catholic cohesion as a culture and community even though the emphasis in the liturgy (as demonstrated by things like people praying the rosary individually during mass) was not on the community. Then, even though this formula was tried and true, they decided to try to wipe out stuff like this and emphasize the community during mass…and ironically, it is community that they lost…

 

[CatholicNick]

In the old rite, you emphasize God and so get a community. But when you emphasize the community…you only get individuals.

In the old days, there was Catholic cohesion as a culture and community even though the emphasis in the liturgy (as demonstrated by things like people praying the rosary individually during mass) was not on the community. Then, even though this formula was tried and true, they decided to try to wipe out stuff like this and emphasize the community during mass…and ironically, it is community that they lost…

So profound and true.

 

[Uxor]

At the tridentine high mass I attend on sundays, I noticed that some people seem to be praying their rosary during the mass (or at least are holding it).

Is this allowed? The people typically do not interact much with the Priest as in the Novus Ordo.

I just think they are holding it and I see nothing wrong with it. I keep a rosary in my pocket and sometimes I reach in and hold it.
I know at my parish, we all say the rosary before Mass. I am so caught up in the Mass for an hour in half, I couldn’t tell you what anyone is doing around me.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

At a Novus Ordo mass, this would make you practically anathema maranatha.

But at the Tridentine, it is tolerated. Because of a different understanding, or at least emphasis, about the Mass.

BUT, the Mass happens without your participation, and just being there fullfills your obligation.

Or as Woody Allen said, 90% of life is showing up.

 

[Sanctus]

It may be allowed, but it is definitely not recommended. St. Pius X said, “Don’t just pray during the Mass, pray the Mass!”

Actually, In his encyclical Mediator Dei, H.H Pius XXII encourages the faithful to follow the Missal, or say the Rosary since it also unites the mind of the faithful on the sacrifice of Christ. I often say the Rosary during Tridentine Masses. Actually, I often say the Rosary during Pauline Masses.

 

[LilyM]

Actually, In his encyclical Mediator Dei, H.H Pius XXII encourages the faithful to follow the Missal, or say the Rosary since it also unites the mind of the faithful on the sacrifice of Christ. I often say the Rosary during Tridentine Masses. Actually, I often say the Rosary during Pauline Masses.

Praying the Rosary is very much a second best option, and not a satisfactory substitute for attentively following either Mass. Otherwise why require you to assist Mass at all? Why not simply permit you to say a group Rosary in church of a Sunday in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament and consider that as sufficient to fulfil your obligations?

You are not illiterate or deaf, not too poor to buy and read a missal and, if liturgy is in the vernacular, more than capable of hearing and comprehending the prayers and readings. Good and worthy as the Rosary is, it is an inferior sort of good compared to following along with the prayers of the Mass directly.

 

[Sanctus]

The hierarchical understanding or ‘participation’ that you suggest is not exactly what Pius XII advocates. Pius XII does indeed praise those who follow in the Roman Missal, “united with the priest…in the very words ond sentiments of the Church.”
Further, His Holiness recognizes that

So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns, and liturgical rites and services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.

Thus, there shouldn’t be tension between those who follow the Missal and those who unite their hearts with the sacrifice of the priest’s through other means. The important thing is that the faithful do, in fact, unite their sacrifices with that august sacrifice of the Mass. Mediator Dei, in my opinion, is a beautiful explination of the liturgy and definantly worth a read. It can be found here:

Mediator Dei–Encyclical of Pope Pius XII on the Sacred Liturgy

 

[Unfinished]

At a Novus Ordo mass, this would make you practically anathema maranatha.

But at the Tridentine, it is tolerated. Because of a different understanding, or at least emphasis, about the Mass.

It certainly isn’t encouraged. As Pope St. Pius X said, following along with the actions at the altar is ideal.

BUT, the Mass happens without your participation, and just being there fullfills your obligation.

In an age where Latin-English missals can be cheaply printed, and literacy is common…following along is highly recommended. But as long as your at the Mass, you fullfill your obligation and are benefitted. And in ages and places where literacy was not common…well, what else could you really expect the people to do? Liturgy was not supposed to be this show, this theatre, this closed-circle interactive session between priest and people. It was public, and thus more impersonal, ritual cultus to God. And so if people can’t read, and so get more benefit praying their rosary individually, the public liturgy happens nonetheless and this is tolerable.

Still, if at all possible, following along in a missal is recommended.

In the old rite, you emphasize God and so get a community. But when you emphasize the community…you only get individuals.

In the old days, there was Catholic cohesion as a culture and community even though the emphasis in the liturgy (as demonstrated by things like people praying the rosary individually during mass) was not on the community. Then, even though this formula was tried and true, they decided to try to wipe out stuff like this and emphasize the community during mass…and ironically, it is community that they lost…

Profound post all around. Kudos.

 

[rtconstant]

At the tridentine high mass I attend on sundays, I noticed that some people seem to be praying their rosary during the mass (or at least are holding it).

Is this allowed? The people typically do not interact much with the Priest as in the Novus Ordo.

It was pretty common back in the day. Many did it in the TLM masses that I attended when I first converted. I would have hoped though that with the rarity of the TLM these days the practice would have died out.

 

[Ad_Orientum]

At a Novus Ordo mass, this would make you practically anathema maranatha.

But at the Tridentine, it is tolerated. Because of a different understanding, or at least emphasis, about the Mass.

It certainly isn’t encouraged. As Pope St. Pius X said, following along with the actions at the altar is ideal.

BUT, the Mass happens without your participation, and just being there fullfills your obligation.

In an age where Latin-English missals can be cheaply printed, and literacy is common…following along is highly recommended. But as long as your at the Mass, you fullfill your obligation and are benefitted. And in ages and places where literacy was not common…well, what else could you really expect the people to do? Liturgy was not supposed to be this show, this theatre, this closed-circle interactive session between priest and people. It was public, and thus more impersonal, ritual cultus to God. And so if people can’t read, and so get more benefit praying their rosary individually, the public liturgy happens nonetheless and this is tolerable.

Still, if at all possible, following along in a missal is recommended.

In the old rite, you emphasize God and so get a community. But when you emphasize the community…you only get individuals.

In the old days, there was Catholic cohesion as a culture and community even though the emphasis in the liturgy (as demonstrated by things like people praying the rosary individually during mass) was not on the community. Then, even though this formula was tried and true, they decided to try to wipe out stuff like this and emphasize the community during mass…and ironically, it is community that they lost…

I enjoyed your post very much.

When I was a child I prayed the Rosary during Mass because I did not understand what was going on, but I understood the Rosary and the Host.

I doubt that I would have understood more if it was in english.

But now, no longer a child, I still return to the practice of praying the Rosary during Mass every once in a while.

It has a very beautiful feeling of sequence and flow, where the priest, the latin, the prayers, and the beads all tick together like clockwork.

But you shouldnt do it at every Mass, just on those certain days…

 

[bear06]

Just in case nobody has seen this (although I feel most have since this topic has come up numerous times) from Marialis Cultus:

In fact, meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary, by familiarizing the hearts and minds of the faithful with the mysteries of Christ, can be an excellent preparation for the celebration of those same mysteries in the liturgical action and can also become a continuing echo thereof. *However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there. *

papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6marial.htm

 

[KMXV]

It’s a good thing a pope can’t bind his successors on disciplinary matters.

 

[HailMary]

The Rosary is an optional devotion, the mass is not. Divine Liturgy, when celebrated correctly, is very engaging and contemplative. Just like you would not do the Rosary and the Angelus at the same time, even thou there is some overlap, (ie: the Annunciation ), you would not say them at the same time. I just done see how you could possibly* participate* in the mass (to the extent that God wants you to) while saying the Blessed Rosary reverently and focused.

 

[batteddy]

It’s a good thing a pope can’t bind his successors on disciplinary matters.

Well…I don’t really encourage praying the rosary at mass as ideal either…but it is just so telling (and shocking) how much things changed in just 20 years from Pius XII saying it was fine and even commendable, to Paul VI saying it was not.

 

[Genesis315]

Well…I don’t really encourage praying the rosary at mass as ideal either…but it is just so telling (and shocking) how much things changed in just 20 years from Pius XII saying it was fine and even commendable, to Paul VI saying it was not.

Anyone familiar at all with Church history would not be shocked at all that popes have different ideas about what is best. Like when within a matter of even less years it was acceptable to Pope Pelagius II (and many previous popes) to have a certain prayer said over the Oblation, but then St. Gregory said the exact opposite, said it was unacceptable, and placed the Lord’s Prayer in its place.

Likewise, when certain rites were acceptable one day, and then supressed the next by St. Pius V. Or when the Jesuits were acceptable to one pope, repressed by another, and then brought back by another. These things happen.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

In the old days, there was Catholic cohesion as a culture and community even though the emphasis in the liturgy (as demonstrated by things like people praying the rosary individually during mass) was not on the community. Then, even though this formula was tried and true, they decided to try to wipe out stuff like this and emphasize the community during mass…and ironically, it is community that they lost…

That was a very good post.

If a secondary effect becomes the object, you tend to lose the both the principal and the secondary effect. For instnace friends are often a source of cheap loans in times of financial distress, but if you try to make friends for the purpose of receiving loans, you will probably obtain neither. The same goes for education. It can very often lead to worldly success. But when students embark on studies purely to advance their careers, the institution gradually loses status and the ability to confer career-enhancing awards.

So it is with community. It is very hard to manufacture, but it is easy to persuade yourself that you have a strong community when in fact you don’t. I like the wedding test. When a wedding occurs within the parish, how often would the whole parish attend the nuptial mass as a matter of course?