Rosary: Is it taking scripture out of context?

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I am well aware that as Catholics we claim the Rosary is from the Gospel according to Luke, which it is. However I would like to question whether it is taking scripture out of context.
  1. In the old testament, we have an angel coming to Guideon and starts with “Hail mighty champion” however there is no prayer honoring Guideon.
  2. Jesus when asked a prayer gave us the prayer “Our Father”. He never gave us the Hail Mary. He never said, “Pray like this ‘Hail Mary’”
  3. Mother Mary’s last words in scripture are to point us to Jesus. Doesn’t the Rosary fall short of going to Jesus?
  4. At Jesus death the veil in the temple was torn into two signifying that we now have access to GOD. As Catholics by praying the rosary are we not saying that Jesus’ death is in vain as we don’t directly approach his Throne of Grace?
  5. In Hebrews we are told that we can boldly approach his Throne of Grace because he has gone through all we have. Yet we stop short.
Shouldn’t our prayer rather be “Hail Jesus”?
 
questioner21 said:
I am well aware that as Catholics we claim the Rosary is from the Gospel according to Luke, which it is. However I would like to question whether it is taking scripture out of context.
  1. In the old testament, we have an angel coming to Guideon and starts with “Hail mighty champion” however there is no prayer honoring Guideon.
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Anymore. Because we honor New Testament Saints, mostly. But there’s no rule against honoring Guideon with a prayer.
  1. Jesus when asked a prayer gave us the prayer “Our Father”. He never gave us the Hail Mary. He never said, “Pray like this ‘Hail Mary’”
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That’s where you’re wrong. When God gave the angel the command to honor Mary with those words, He did it for our benefit, that we might learn His will.
  1. Mother Mary’s last words in scripture are to point us to Jesus. Doesn’t the Rosary fall short of going to Jesus?
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That question leads me to wonder if you’ve ever prayed the Rosary. I think you’re stuck on the Hail Mary prayer. Do you know anything about the meditations which are the foundation of the Rosary prayer?
  1. At Jesus death the veil in the temple was torn into two signifying that we now have access to GOD. As Catholics by praying the rosary are we not saying that Jesus’ death is in vain as we don’t directly approach his Throne of Grace?
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No. You need to read Heb 12:22-24. By His death Jesus made us members of His household. We now live with the Heavenly host. Indeed, they are our brothers and sisters.
  1. In Hebrews we are told that we can boldly approach his Throne of Grace because he has gone through all we have. Yet we stop short.
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Maybe you stop short. But we don’t. We recognize that Jesus gave us His mother to be our Mother. And we recognize that the Saints have already proved they are righteous. Have you not read in Scripture, the prayer of a righteous man is very efficacious (James 5:16-17).
Shouldn’t our prayer rather be “Hail Jesus”?
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Jesus told us that He is one with the Father. And this is how He instructed us to pray:

Our Father, Who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name. …(I’m sure you know the rest)…
 
The Rosary is an inspired prayer and at the same time it is a methodoly for learning to pray and the major path of learning the N. T. that has evolved according to the needs of the people of rhe Church. Very few knew how to read or write during the lifetime of Jesus or thereafter. It was a way to pray and learn. The Rosary continues to teach, preach and pray therough the Newer, evovled Luminous Rosary.

‘Hail Mary’ is a greating, like ‘hello,’ but greater than just a ‘Hello.’ ’ Hail Mighty Chapion is like acknowledging John Cena with a ‘belt’ and also from the O.T. which Jesus came to give something a bit better in the N.T. and not to afirm and esteem His ownself.
So i am being simplistic and typing in the dark, but I like simplsitic. So sue me. I am poor anyway!
 
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MaryEstelle2 said:
The Rosary continues to teach, preach and pray therough the Newer, evovled Luminous Rosary.
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The Luminous Mysteries are simply an additional set of 5 more of Jesus’ life events to meditate on while praying the Rosary, in addition to the 15 Mysteries that already existed previously and which all of us who pray the Rosary continue to use.

There is no such thing as the “newer, evolved Luminous Rosary”. It’s the same Rosary we have been saying for centuries, with the option of using the 5 new Luminous Mysteries for meditation or continuing to meditate on the traditional Joyful, Sorrowful and Glorious Mysteries.
 
OP, I think CajunJoy’s graphic tells you everything you need to know and then some. We also seem to get these same questions about the Hail Mary and the Rosary over and over. I would suggest if you still have questions after reading the graphic, you search Catholic Answers for some more threads and articles on the Hail Mary and the Rosary because there are a lot of resources explaining this stuff, to the point where I do not understand why people continue to ask about it.
 
IMO, you are leaning on scripture too much, and risk draining the richness out of the faith. In truth, that is what the reformation eventually, even if unintentionally accomplished. I’ll be honest: Your approach almost sounds Protestant/Evangelical to me. Let us consider: Did Jesus honor His mother? Did He create His own mother? Did He assume her into heaven? Does she wear the everlasting crown of glory?

Only two of the 20 mysteries focus on Mary - and even then, they commemorate the action that Jesus took to honor His own mother. The “Hail, Mary” prayers are true prayers, even if used only as background cadence to your meditation (on the life of Christ!).

In offering the Hail, Mary, you are bonding with God the Father, as He gave Gabriel the words to speak to Mary. You are bonding in a way with Gabriel, an angelic being. But, you are bonding with Christ, as each Hail, Mary has Christ’s Name at it very center.

Try offering the Hail, Mary the way that Mother Angelica did:
“…and blessed is the fruit of they womb…
(pause)
…Jesus…
(pause)
Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners…”
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Point 1. In actuality the greeting is quite different:

Judges 6:12 the Angel of the Lord appeared to him, and he said: “The Lord is with you, most valiant of men.”

While to Mary we have:
Luke 1:28 And upon entering, the Angel said to her: “Hail, full of grace. The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women.”

Quite a difference I would say.
 
As I said I like to keep simple esp. for thoses not farmilur With the 'historical Rosary let alone the luminous Rosary. This would be true for recent converts or those that were never introduced to the Rosary. The Luminious Rosary is ‘rather new’ in the ‘evovling’ praryer meditations of the Rosary. It wasn’t so long ago people were having hissy fits over the addition of the Luminous Mysteries. I will guess that there are many who have never heard of the Luminois Rosary, even here on CF.
I said it before and I will say it again. I do not have a Ph.d in all things theological and I don’t expect a certificate on my wall anytime soon. Yes, I usd the word ‘evolving.’ Nothing is static even within the church.
 
[First]
  1. In the old testament, we have an angel coming to Guideon and starts with “Hail mighty champion” however there is no prayer honoring Guideon. – The person wasn’t the Mother of Jesus, who shared in His Divinity as the Mother of God. Let me be clear, “shared.” As you and I share in Christ’s Divinity through Baptism. And receiving Him in the Holy Eucharist. Sharing the Holy state of life. However, unlike Mary, wherefore we’re rebellious. She gave Herself fully. Not a life chosen to be Her own, but His. Free will and unrebellious act.
  2. Jesus when asked a prayer gave us the prayer “Our Father”. He never gave us the Hail Mary. He never said, “Pray like this ‘Hail Mary’” – Saint Paul has asked others to pray. Even Jesus is seen to be talking to Moses and Elijah. Then, of course, we’re all called to intercede and pray. Which is not anything new. Let’s break this down and see some parallels: The Angel spoke onto Mary saying: “Hail, highly favored!” And, even Saint Elizabeth said: “How is it the mother of my Lord has come upon me?” And Mary said: “All generations will call me blessed.” Then, what of the Transfiguration, you know where Christ the Son of the God of the Living and not the dead, is speaking to Moses and Elijah? If an Angel speaks onto Mary in as much as Elijah and Moses speak to Christ, what then is the exaltation of Her above all creation should stop anyone asking Her for prayer and intercession? Or is the privation of Heavenly gifts strictly for Heaven, and for Earth it’s another? In fact, the Our Father makes the case: Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Thus, intercession and prayer, in asking the saints and Our Lady to pray for us, is consistent with the Old Testament and the New Testament. Even the prayers of the faithful are seen in Revelation. And, the Lady Crowned with Twelve Stars, bathed with the sun, and the moon at Her feet. Thus, to speak the Annunciation of the Gospel onto Mary identifies to Her, the lowly handmaid for whom we ask for Her prayers. It was said by an Angel, why cannot souls?
 
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3. Mother Mary’s last words in scripture are to point us to Jesus. Doesn’t the Rosary fall short of going to Jesus? – Again, you must be forgetting the Rosary is a petitionary prayer. First, addressing Her with Hail Mary, you are identifying to Who She is as the Angel spoke. Second, the exaltation of that prayer: Blessed art Thou Among Women. And, Blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Her life is interconnected completely to Her Son’s (a consequence.) Yes, She does point to Him. Because, Her life is unbreakably interconnected to His. A bond that cannot ever be broken. She was there at the Cross. Hence, in the later part of the Petitionary prayer: Pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.
  1. At Jesus death the veil in the temple was torn into two signifying that we now have access to GOD. As Catholics by praying the rosary are we not saying that Jesus’ death is in vain as we don’t directly approach his Throne of Grace? – You could even argue you therefore do not need the Sacraments in the same way and measure. In fact, you sort of have made the necessity of the Rosary, it is not. Then again, God has had required certain exercises or practices (like the blood of the lamb on the door post in Egypt, the Ark of the Covenant, etc.) For battling temporal punishments. And thus aiding people’s Salvation. The Rosary is an aide, like a crutch.
  2. In Hebrews we are told that we can boldly approach his Throne of Grace because he has gone through all we have. Yet we stop short. – Saint Paul wasn’t exactly that bold. He was actually more humble than people make him out to be. Many times he refers to the thorn in his flesh. And the temptation to sin. The emphasis in his letters is God’s Mercy. Remember, Saint Paul was not one of the Twelve Apostle’s. He also was not chosen as the head of the Church. Saint Peter was. And, the four Gospels tell of Mary’s fiat. Even Saint Paul attributes to Christ’s birth: born under a woman, born under the law. Jesus was not born under the law of sin. He had not sin in him. If you think Christ was a sinner. Then, approaching the Throne of Grace is not approachable.
 
Thank you for the graphic. As some one who has studied at a Catholic Bible institute I am very aware of this graphic.

My question is whether the “Hail Mary” was ever intended to be a prayer. To me it seems like it is scripture taken out of context. That is my primary concern.
 
Sorry, but the graphic does not answer my question. Is the Hail Mary scripture taken out of context?
 
I would like for you read a part of this book, “Prayer” Finding the Heart’s True Home by Richard J Foster.

There is no more plaintive or heartfelt prayer than the cry of Jesus, " My God, My God, why has Thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46b, KJV). Jesus experience on the cross was, of course, utterly unique and unrepeatable, for he was taking into himself the sins of the world. But in our own way you and I will pray this Prayer of the Forsaken if we seek the intimacy of the perpetual communion with the father. Times of seeming desertion and absence and abandonment appear to be universal among those who have walked this path of faith before us. We might just as well get used to the idea that, sooner or later, we, too, will know what it means to feel forsaken by God.

The old writers spoke of this reality as Deus Absconditus–the God who is hidden. Almost instinctively you understand the experience they were describing, do you not? Have you ever tried to pray and felt nothing, saw nothing, sensed nothing? Has it ever seem like your prayers did no more than bounce off the ceiling and ricochet around an empty room? Have there been times when you desperately needed some words of assurance, some demonstration of the divine presence, and you got nothing? Sometimes it seems like God is hidden from us. We do everything we know. We pray. We serve. We worship. We live as faithfully as we can. And still there is nothing… Nothing! It feels like we are “beating on Heaven’s door with bruised knuckles in the dark,” to use the words of George Buttrick.

I am sure you understand that when I speak of the absence of God, I am talking about not a true absence would rather a sense of absence. God is always present with us --we know that theologically–but there are times when He withdraws our consciousness of his presence.

At these theological niceties are of little help to us when we enter the Sahara of the heart. Here we experience real spiritual desolation. We feel abandoned by friends, spouse, and God. Every hope evaporates the moment we reach for it. Every dream dies the moment we try to realize it. We question, we doubt, we struggle. Nothing helps. We pray and the words seem empty. We turn to the Bible and find it meaningless. We turn to music and it fails to move us. We received the fellowship of other Christians and discover only backbiting, selfishness, and egoism.
 
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“The biblical metaphor for these experiences of forsakenness is the desert. It is an apt image, for we do indeed feel dry, barren, parched. With the psalmist we cry out, " I call all day, my God, but you never answer” (Ps. 22:2). In fact we begin to wonder if there is a God to answer.

These experience of Abandonment and desertion have come and will come to us all. Therefore, it is good to see if anything helpful can be said as we faced the barren waste land of God’s absence."

Know, and if you read your bible, you have just experience every patriarch and matriarch — and have just understood Abraham’s waiting for the promise of his first son.

" But Abram said, “Sovereign Lord, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit[c] my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 And Abram said, “You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”

4 Then the word of the Lord came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.” 5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring[d] be.”

6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
 
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It is not easy to wait for God to respond - if I were to defend the saints, angels and praying the rosary. My personal experience is that the Spirit gives us tolerance, a way for us to make peace inside, and to wait for the Lord to respond back. Again, we may not see (physically) with the eye but we do see with the soul those present (spiritually) to help us.

I was fighting myself inside all the time but when the presense of the holy spirit surrounded me at church, I left a whole different person. The Rosary helps!! Don’t give up on this good tool!
 
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I’m sorry but your question makes no sense.

Scripture is about Jesus’ life.
The Rosary is a meditative prayer on events in Jesus’ life.

I have no idea from your question what “context” you’re seeing that makes the Rosary a use of scripture “out of context”. It is simply not clear and it sounds like you are raising the same old concerns that have been raised many times about how we somehow aren’t praying to Jesus when we say the Hail Mary (presumably this isn’t an issue with the Creed, Our Father, Glory Be or the Fatima Prayer).

Perhaps you’d like to state your question again and make it more clear?
 
No, the Song of Mary is not scripture taken out of context. This prayer is also read in the Song of Hannah. These two prayers praise God as a personal Savior and as with the prayer of Zechariah the message stated, Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel; He has come to His people and set them free. He(God) has RAISED UP FOR US A MIGHTY SAVIOR, Born of the house of His servant David."
The Song of Hannah is a poem interpreting the prosetext of the Books of Samuel. According to the surrounding narrative, the poem (1 Samuel 2:1–10) was a prayer delivered by Hannah, to give thanks to God for the birth of her son, Samuel. It is very similar to Psalm 113[1] and the Magnificat.[2]
 
questioner21 said:
My question is whether the “Hail Mary” was ever intended to be a prayer. To me it seems like it is scripture taken out of context. That is my primary concern
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Adoration of Mary?​

– Answered by Father Johann Roten, S.M.

Q: Do Catholics adore Mary?

A: Though English words like ‘worship’ and ‘adoration’ are occasionally used to signify only veneration, honor or affection, they are generally understood to refer to that highest type of worship reserved for God alone. In this sense, Catholics do NOT adore or worship Mary, or any other created person or thing.

The Ecumenical Council held at Nicaea in 787 considered the issue of veneration which is not directed to the Divine persons in relation to sacred images. At this Council, the Church taught that the special type of worship called adoration may only be offered to God: Latria from the Greek term for enslavement. However, the Church also acknowledged that certain persons, though only creatures of God, are entitled to honor or veneration of a qualitatively lesser degree than the absolute allegiance owed to God. The Conciliar Fathers termed this lesser devotion: Dulia . Such veneration was proper for Mary and the Saints. In view of Mary’s important role in salvation history as Mother of Jesus, the Church recognized that Mary warranted a special degree of honor among the Saints. For this class of devotion, St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274) suggested the term hyperdulia.

No, Catholics do not worship Mary, if by worshiping is meant adoring. She is not God for us, has never been and will never be. Addressing prayer to Mary is like asking a dear and close friend for help. Do we make a God of our friend when asking him to keep us in his prayers? Do we divinize him/her when asking for his prayerful support in sickness and the trials of life? Believers on earth and in heaven constitute a living community which the major Christian denominations recognize as the communion of saints. The saints in heaven are not dead. Their Christian example of virtuous living and their closeness to God make of them powerful allies for us struggling mortals. They do not take God’s place; they are an expression of his grace.

Likewise, there is nothing in Mary that would not have been in God and come from him. She is a pure product of God; this is the essential meaning of Mary’s sinlessness. Never forget: if God wanted the exclusively direct relation between him and you and me he would never send Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God, never allow scripture to be the foundation of our faith, never encourage his Son to found the Church or institute the sacraments. Christianity is the religion of mediation, essential and foundational in Christ; participative and subordinate in his Church and in varying degrees in the believers.

TagsAdoration of Mary : University of Dayton, Ohio
 
You are right the Rosary is based on Scripture. I do not have a problem with the response to the Hail Mary i.e. Holy Mary as it is asking Mother Mary to pray for us.

My questions is about the Hail Mary, as to whether it was ever meant to be a prayer and by taking it is as prayer whether we are taking scripture out of context.
 
Dear Psalm62,

I have studied through the Catholic Bible Institute and do not believe that as Catholics we worship Mary.

I have a question about the “Hail Mary … Jesus.” Whether the quote by the angel and by Elizabeth were meant to be used as a prayer? And by taking as a prayer whether we are taking it out of context?
 
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