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Battle_Warrior
Guest
I disagree…Women can’t be priests so I thinks its inappropriate to have women distributing Holy Communion during Mass…the same goes for alter serving.
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Godfollower
Guest
The Church disagrees with you. Women are permitted to become extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, and that includes service as such during Mass, bringing Communion to the sick and home-bound, and distributing (previously consecrated) Communion during a Communion service.
So your conclusion is incorrect: Bob did, in fact, receive our Lord and Savior this morning.
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Cristiano
Guest
Would you receive the bread if you though that was just a piece of bread? Would you rather risk to offend God or to offend a person that you believe to be mocking the Church? Bad things do happen in a lot of places around this country, and if you were a visitor and you were to think that something really invalid is going on wouldn’t you just get out of that place as fast as you could? You have the privilege of knowing what is truly going on, but you must understand that visitors do not know as much as you do and they have to rely only on what they see. The reason of documents like RS is to have uniformity across the Church specifically to avoid this kind of problems and misunderstandings.
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Battle_Warrior
Guest
I don’t mean its wrong for a woman to take Holy Communion to a dying person…thats not the problem. I, myself, am a feminist… but seeing women and teenagers taking over the alter is really sad.
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estesbob
Guest
Since the church in her wisdom has allowed extraordinary ministers of both sexes everything you say above is totally irrelevant. In addition the idea that the man fled because he thought that things were about to happen is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard. Surely this man has seen female Eucharistic ministers before. Surely is heard the Communion service before. He was rude. She was rude. Both of them should be ashamed of themselves.
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Cristiano
Guest
Your personal opinion goes against the Law of the Church. The Law of the Church allows for women to participate in extraordinary ministries. Do not fall for the Donatist heresy. Bob did receive our Lord and Savior.
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Cristiano
Guest
From what you described it was one woman conducting a service by herself on a day when the service should not be normally conducted. I also know a lot of people that are clueless about Communion Services. Those are red flags, but they do not mean that anything was invalid. Just because you think one way, that does not mean that everybody has reason to think the same way.
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Godfollower
Guest
The Church specifically allows Communion services, and even Redemptionis Sacramentum recognizes that bishops are allowed to grant permission for them, even on weekdays: “Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.” RS ¶ 166. “Must not easily grant permission” means “may grant permission (albeit not easily).” It is a matter for the exclusive competence of Bob’s Ordinary.
But (to get back to the point of this thread), even if the strange man hypothetically knew for a fact that such services were banned in Bob’s diocese, that’s no reason to stomp out in anger. It’s still the Lord being distributed; feel free to take part (then write a letter to the bishop if you feel the need).
And for the woman leading the service to accuse the man based on nothing but her own small-minded arrogance – spontaneously changing the prayers of the faithful?! Really?! – is to challenge what she thinks might be a mote in the man’s eye while ignoring the beam in her own.
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adrift
Guest
Because of Redemptionis Sacramentum, I do not attend communion services. I don’t condemn those who conduct them. In our parish, it is the fault of our Bishop. He is the one who approved it. There is nothing wrong with them. Sometimes I go to a schedules Mass only to find a communion service. I don’t walk out but I am very uncomfortable.
As someelse said, if he knows about it. I sent him a letter about a problem in a praish. He wrote thanking me for it was impossible for him to be in every parish. Because of my report, the parish had to change what they were doing. I don’t think this is a big deal so he probably would let it slide.
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adrift
Guest
This also gives fuel to the argument that such Communion Services should not be allowed.
Not necessarily my position.
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Battle_Warrior
Guest
If the Church allows women to be alter servers and to hand out Communion, how come you don’t see them doing it in the Vatican/St. Peters square???
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Cristiano
Guest
My point is that there is a good chance that the man did not realized that it was at a communion service at all. If he knew that he was participating to a communion service and he chose to leave because he did not like how things were done, then I think that he did something that is offensive to God even before considering how offensive he could have been to other people.
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Cristiano
Guest
I do not know, but the next time that I am in Rome I will ask the priest of a small parish why they do not have the Mass in English. Unless I am wrong and Italian is the only form of vernacular allowed in the Mass, then they should have the Mass in English even if they are in Rome.
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estesbob
Guest
Probably because they have no shortage of deacons and priests.
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Cristiano
Guest
Honestly I do not believe that to be the reason, I think that it is simply that the “local Bishop” decided not to have female EMHCs and altar servers during his masses. One some occasions the same “local Bishop” still allows for female readers. The sad part is that in Italy there is a shortage of priests and now there are some parishes that are just supported by deacons.
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pnewton
Guest
I think the man was rude only as far as his glaring went. He surely was within his right to leave if he did not believe in women leading communion services, or if he misunderstood. Therefore, it could only be the the manner of his departure that was rude.
The woman was rude absolutely. Charity does not us permit to speculate about the worst in a stranger. Also, prayer is not place for gossipy women to wag their tongue.
Finally, estesbob has a good thread. It is always good to learn from others mistakes, lest we repeat them. However, I do give this low odds of not ending in a squabble.
The woman was rude absolutely. Charity does not us permit to speculate about the worst in a stranger. Also, prayer is not place for gossipy women to wag their tongue.
Finally, estesbob has a good thread. It is always good to learn from others mistakes, lest we repeat them. However, I do give this low odds of not ending in a squabble.
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Godfollower
Guest
The problem with your reasoning here is that it necessarily assumes that the local Bishop (Benedict XVI) is affirmatively choosing to do something that he himself says he should not do. Extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are not to be used if there are enough ordinary ministers – priests and deacons – to do the job. That’s stated quite clearly in quite a few Church documents. So, if there are enough priests and deacons around (which there obviously are, since that’s who’s distributing Communion), then the presiding priest is not to use extraordinary ministers. For the “real reason” to be what you’re assuming in your post, the presiding priest has to be using ordinary ministers in place of extraordinary ministers, which he can only do in the first place if there aren’t enough ordinary ministers, which there clearly are. The whole idea is anti-tautological (if that’s a word).
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Kevin812
Guest
We need to be careful here. We only know what a witness has reported and not the man in question thought or his reasoning. It’s to easy to say he thought xyz or glared but those are others interpretations. (I’m not saying Bob was wrong tho. Only, we must proceed with caution.)
Otoh, who sets in the front row???
(but, alas that’s also a judgement).
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Cristiano
Guest
This is a very good point for the use of EMHCs, it makes much more sense and it is consistent with the presence of female readers. However, what about the altar servers? I think that the Pope still uses a personal preference in accordance with what the Church allows for, but again this is just my speculation because I really do not know the facts about usage of female altar servers at the Pope’s masses in particular and in the Diocese of Rome in general.
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Godfollower
Guest
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