Rude?

[Phemie]

If the Church allows women to be alter servers and to hand out Communion, how come you don’t see them doing it in the Vatican/St. Peters square???

Because they have enough priests, deacons and acolytes to do the job?

Canon Law allows both female Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and Altar servers but the celebrating priest has the final say when it comes to women altar servers. If the celebrant doesn’t want to use female altar servers he doesn’t have to.

 

[estesbob]

Otoh, who sets in the front row??? (but, alas that’s also a judgement).

I always do-unless some unthinking visitor has stolen my spot!

 

[Matthew_Holford]

If the Church allows women to be alter servers and to hand out Communion, how come you don’t see them doing it in the Vatican/St. Peters square???

There could be several reasons why one does not see female altar servers in the Vatican/St. Peter’s Square.

If my memory serves me correctly it was Blessed John Paul II who decreed that female altar servers could be allowed. However, he allowed the following to happen: individual episcopal conferences could say no to female altar services in their territory. If an episcopal conference allowed them, individual diocesan bishops could decide that they were not permitted in his diocese. A parish priest can decide not to have female altar servers in his parish. Even if female altar servers are permitted in a particular country, diocese and parish, a priest can opt not to have female altar servers at a Mass he celebrates.

Based on the above it follows that there could be quite a few reasons why we don’t see female altar servers in the Vatican/St. Peter’s Square.

In a TV programme I watched about the Vatican all the altar servers at St. Peter’s Basilica are male and they all attend a school in the Vatican. The Vatican hopes that vocations to the sacred priesthood will come from some of these boys. Therefore it would not be inappropriate to have female altar servers in this group.

Rome must have a significantly large number of seminarians. These could be altar servers at many Masses in the Vatican/St. Peter’s Square. I think Blessed John Paul II allowed for female altar servers because enough males may not volunteer for the role. I think it unlikely that Rome would suffer from a shortage of male altar servers.

 

[Aramis]

This is nonsense, why was it rude? There were so many red flags going on that probably he assumed that was some woman-priest service. Given the sad status of some parishes around the world that is a very reasonable expectation. I rather see him walking out than participating in something that he would believe to be sacrilegious.

From the OP’s description, he made a big show of his leaving.

It’s obvious that he gave the OP the strong impression of disrespect.

If he’d left quietly, no harm, no foul. But it’s obvious that he didn’t.

 

[Maureen1125]

I think he - as do we all - had the right to get up and walk out of the service. I do think it was rude and uncharitable of the woman leading the prayer service to draw attention to the fact that he walked out.

Think of it this way, if you had walked out (maybe you received and emergency call/text and had to leave immediately) would you want it announced during the intentions that we should all pray for Jane Doe as she walked out on the service?

 

[Rence]

Had a strange situation at our communion services morning
. We are in a tourist town and sitting in the front pew was a man who is obviously a visitor and evidently was waiting for Mass to begin. We do not, however, have Mass on Mondays we have a communion service.

The lady who was leading the communion service walked out and stood at the Ambo starting the service. This man got up, glared at her, and walked out.

I thought that was bad enough but then we got to the petitions the lady leading the service “prayed” for the man who walked out stating she hoped he did not walk out because he didn’t like a lady on the altar.

I think both actions were uncalled for. I know there are people who are not comfortable with communion services, I know there are people who do not like Eucharistic ministers male or female but I do not think that matters here-the question is having found yourself in a communion service why would you just not grin and bear it rather than stalking out of the church?

So do you think both actions were rude? Neither? One or the other? Or am I rude for bringing it up

I think it was rude for him to glare at her and walk out. It would have been more polite to just leave. As for her, yes she was rude too. I think it was poor judgement and inappropriate for her to do what she did. But I can’t say I blame her, given your description of what happened. She was probably taken aback. As for you, I don’t think you’re rude for brining it up. The whole thing obviously upset you a bit… It looks like it was not a very good experience for everyone involved.

 

[estesbob]

I think it was rude for him to glare at her and walk out. It would have been more polite to just leave. As for her, yes she was rude too. I think it was poor judgement and inappropriate for her to do what she did. But I can’t say I blame her, given your description of what happened. She was probably taken aback. As for you, I don’t think you’re rude for brining it up. The whole thing obviously upset you a bit… It looks like it was not a very good experience for everyone involved.

Definately distacted us all from what we were there for.

 

[Phemie]

There could be several reasons why one does not see female altar servers in the Vatican/St. Peter’s Square.

Remember that altar servers, male or female, are replacements for Instituted Acolytes. If there are enough instituted ministers, there shouldn’t be any ‘replacements’ used at all. That’s probably the reason why we don’t see female altar servers in the Vatican.

 

[Alex2008]

So what would you rather have, a Communion Service or Nothing??

I vote “nothing” as this should give us the opportunity to reflect on what would happen if we had “no” priests. They deserve a day off (that means they shouldn’t even have to preside at Mass) and daily Mass is NOT a requirement, whether we like that idea or not!

So we might encourage our Sons to consider a priestly vocation! Yet I also wonder how many people who post on this board would be willing to sacrifice “grandchildren” so that the Church would have more priests?

I’m guessing again, FEW. I’d be willing and happy to be proved wrong!

 

[estesbob]

So what would you rather have, a Communion Service or Nothing??

I vote “nothing” as this should give us the opportunity to reflect on what would happen if we had “no” priests. They deserve a day off (that means they shouldn’t even have to preside at Mass) and daily Mass is NOT a requirement, whether we like that idea or not!

So we might encourage our Sons to consider a priestly vocation! Yet I also wonder how many people who post on this board would be willing to sacrifice “grandchildren” so that the Church would have more priests?

I’m guessing again, FEW. I’d be willing and happy to be proved wrong!

I take every opportunity I have to receive our Lord and Savior on a daily basis. We should be grateful that our church provides this opportunity even when there is a shortage of priests.

 

[Cristiano]

From the OP’s description, he made a big show of his leaving.

It’s obvious that he gave the OP the strong impression of disrespect.

If he’d left quietly, no harm, no foul. But it’s obvious that he didn’t.

The OP says: “This man got up, glared at her, and walked out.” He did not try to interrupt the service, he did not say anything to anybody, I am not surprised that he looked toward the altar (wouldn’t you do that before leaving the pew?), and he walked away. A “glare” is a very subjective perception and maybe the lady somehow felt guilty and perceived him as giving her a glare. That means that he left quietly and so I follow your logic and I say “no harm no foul”. If the other people were to busy to observe the glare then it probably means that they were really not there with the right intent.

 

[Cristiano]

So what would you rather have, a Communion Service or Nothing??

I vote “nothing” as this should give us the opportunity to reflect on what would happen if we had “no” priests. They deserve a day off (that means they shouldn’t even have to preside at Mass) and daily Mass is NOT a requirement, whether we like that idea or not!

So we might encourage our Sons to consider a priestly vocation! Yet I also wonder how many people who post on this board would be willing to sacrifice “grandchildren” so that the Church would have more priests?

I’m guessing again, FEW. I’d be willing and happy to be proved wrong!

I do not think that we should discuss the choice of having a Communion Service or nothing. That is really up to the Bishop to decide for us. I think that your second point “we might encourage our sons to consider a priestly vocation” is very valid but we are not going to achieve that thorough the elimination of Communion Services. I think that men, truly living a public religious life and teaching the correct catechetical instruction, are the most effective way to guide our sons.

 

[elgar]

From what you described it was one woman conducting a service by herself on a day when the service should not be normally conducted. I also know a lot of people that are clueless about Communion Services. Those are red flags, but they do not mean that anything was invalid. Just because you think one way, that does not mean that everybody has reason to think the same way.

Please explain to me the format of a Catholic Communion Service as opposed to a Mass.

Is there a specific liturgy followed and are liberties taken? Just curious since this didn’t exist when I was a Catholic.

 

[pnewton]

I found this from RS,

Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains,* must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays,* especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday.

Bottom line is that this sort of service is discouraged, but it is always the local ordinary’s call.

 

[estesbob]

I really don’t get it . Regardless of one’s views on communion services, Eucharistic ministers, the role of women in the liturgy , etc this man was with and 10 min. of being able to hold our Lord and Savior in his hand. What possible reason could someone have to walk out on that? I really agree with the previous poster that there appears to be some amount of Donatism involved here. Perhaps I also have a little more stringent view of what the real presence is . As I said before I go on my way to make sure I can receive our Lord and Savior every day. Displeasure with the person leading the service is never, never going to keep me from receiving our Lord.

 

[Cristiano]

Please explain to me the format of a Catholic Communion Service as opposed to a Mass.

Is there a specific liturgy followed and are liberties taken? Just curious since this didn’t exist when I was a Catholic.

To the person that is not familiar with a Communion Service it can appear just like a Mass. The Communion Service follows very specific guidelines as any liturgy (public work) in the Church, and the details can be found on internet. At first glance I would say that the major difference is that there is no priest (because it can be celebrated when no priest is available for Mass), thus no consecration of the species, and then no homily. I think that Communion Services are open to abuses in the same way as any liturgy is open to abuses. I think that often in isolated communities they are the only way for the faithful to receive Communion in a regular manner, and thus this opportunity is a blessing to many.

 

[Cristiano]

I really don’t get it . Regardless of one’s views on communion services, Eucharistic ministers, the role of women in the liturgy , etc this man was with and 10 min. of being able to hold our Lord and Savior in his hand. What possible reason could someone have to walk out on that? I really agree with the previous poster that there appears to be some amount of Donatism involved here. Perhaps I also have a little more stringent view of what the real presence is . As I said before I go on my way to make sure I can receive our Lord and Savior every day. Displeasure with the person leading the service is never, never going to keep me from receiving our Lord.

I think that the only justification is that the person out of ignorance did not recognized it as a Communion Service but he thought that it was a pretend Mass led by a non validly ordained individual. In that case it is obvious that the person would presume the lack of real presence in the bread and would walk away trying not to mix with a sacrilegious crowd.

I already expressed my opinion if the person walked out because he knew that it was “only” a Communion Service, and in this case it looks like we think along the same lines.

I still prefer to give this man the benefit of the doubt and think that he assumed to be attending an invalid function.

 

[estesbob]

I think that the only justification is that the person out of ignorance did not recognized it as a Communion Service but he thought that it was a pretend Mass led by a non validly ordained individual. In that case it is obvious that the person would presume the lack of real presence in the bread and would walk away trying not to mix with a sacrilegious crowd.

I thought about that but then that is a gross insult to the two dozen or so other of us that were there.

 

[Cristiano]

I thought about that but then that is a gross insult to the two dozen or so other of us that were there.

I fully understand your sensitivity, but it is better to insult a dozen people than to insult God. We know that there are a lot of people that call themselves Catholics and that attend several kinds of non valid functions performed by “fringe” groups. The sad fact is that the devil does not always lie to us, often he also uses the truth to make us doubt and fall into error.

 

[Stylites]

I thought about that but then that is a gross insult to the two dozen or so other of us that were there.

In the end we don’t know why the man left, or what was in his head, or what he was thinking or what he knew or didn’t know. But according to your report, the behavior of the woman “on the altar” was way out of line, trying to interpret, personalize and calumniate about a strangers’ unknown actions and motivations, especially extemporaneously in the faux form of a prayer to God.