Rudolph and the Occult

[jjtc]

A little off topic but it always bothered me (even as a child) that in the cartoon, when Santa see’s Rudolphs nose for the first time he no longer lets him join in any reindeer games. Basically saying that if someone is different they should be shunned. Not until his special talent is required does he become accepted by his society. Doesn’t quite sound like Saintly behavior.

Not a big deal, just funny how even to this day that still rubs me the wrong way. Still love the cartoon. I remember as a kid checking the newspapers to see exactly when all the good Christmas cartoons would be on TV, didn’t want to miss them. That anticipation is also lost on my children as they have 150+ channels plus have all the classics on VHS/DVD anyway. Jeez, I’m starting to sound like my father…

 

[dixieagle]

Santa Claus’ reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. The Horned Gods of Wicca Herne the Hunter and Cernunnos wear the horns of the stag on their heads and then mate with the Spring Goddess in the Great Rite of Spring.

The Horned God has developed our concept of the devil (horny devil) although he is more commonly portrayed with goat horns rather than antlers but he can in fact wear both.

One of the origins of Santa Claus is Odin/Woden who was a Norse Pagan creator god called All Father and is sometimes known as Skyfather. According to Wikipedia, Odin and Thor were rejected by Catholics in their baptismal vows one thousand years ago.

Rudolph a Horned God??? I always thought it was Vixen!!!

 

[ahollars]

This is so stupid!!! I’m going to watch.

Americans have Deutschland and Nederland to thank for the contemporary traditions of Christmas, including the pagan adoptions. I suppose the fact that Saint Nicholas in Dutch is pronounced “Sinterklaas” which caught on quickly in New Amsterdam, now known as New York, had nothing to do with it, right?

 

[Jan_Bolbot]

What’s REALLY funny about this post is that Wicca is only 50 years old. And NO ancient Pagan religion believed in a Horned God/Mother Goddess like the Wiccans believe it. Any Wiccan will tell you that, too, unless they believe Margaret Murray, who has been totally disproven.

True, though a number of the practices date back the 19th century. There was an earlier form that emerged around that time as the so-called Romantics (blame Lord Byron!) tried to recover some lost golden age that never was. It is a completely modern practice, though there were outbreaks of occult practices periodically throughout history as the devil has tried to pervert the minds of the faithful.

In remote parts of Europe, Latin America, and Africa there are various practices that blend folk beliefs in magic with elements of Christianity. This is quite unlike Wicca, however, especially given that most Wiccans are modern, educated, and post-Christian. Both groups, however, are in need of missionary work on behalf of the faith.

jb

 

[ruslan]

:bigyikes:

 

[jwashu]

Santa Claus’ reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. The Horned Gods of Wicca Herne the Hunter and Cernunnos wear the horns of the stag on their heads and then mate with the Spring Goddess in the Great Rite of Spring.

The Horned God has developed our concept of the devil (horny devil) although he is more commonly portrayed with goat horns rather than antlers but he can in fact wear both.

One of the origins of Santa Claus is Odin/Woden who was a Norse Pagan creator god called All Father and is sometimes known as Skyfather. According to Wikipedia, Odin and Thor were rejected by Catholics in their baptismal vows one thousand years ago.

Ok… first of all don’t believe everything you find on Wiki

Secondly I believe you are reading too much into this…

Finally… did you make it to Mass on Sunday? Do you know who’s feast day it was?

That’s right… St. Nick! Santa is Catholic! Every culture has taken away and added to things at Christmas but remember a few things. Most of the stuff added in the us is purely commercial to make money, there is no evil intended, it’s just capitalism.

Just remember that ultimately, after all the “stuff” that Christ is the reason. It’s his arrival we long for and anticipate at Christmas!

Joe

 

[jwashu]

You would be amazed how many pagan feasts were either christianized by the Church or re-wrapped into children’s stories by secular culture. This is a fact. Halloween is downright satanic at it’s origin.

While I cannot veryfy the complete accuracy of this particular tale about Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, I am sure the OP probably isn’t too far off. By and large, it’s no big deal.

Regardless, I agree that we must remember the reason for the season… and that is the celebration of the birth of the god-man, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

LOL, are you Catholic? Our word in English comes from All Hallows Eve, the evening before All Saints Day. That is where it comes from in the Western Christian Culture.

Now, did the Celtic pagans in Europe, who based their religion of the skys note this date as well? Sure thing.

Was there a Roman feast to celebrate the rising of the Sun after Winter Solstice? Sure thing. Since no one knew exactly when Christ was born did it makes sense to celebrate the birth of the Son at the same time… why not.

The point is that if you go back far enough and look hard enough into other ancient religions you will find something that corresponds to Christianity.

Once you do you have a choice on how you look at it. You can either believe that these “evil” pagans have been influencing your religion.

OR

You can believe that God has plan and has been putting out bits and pieces of the truth throughout history so that humans from every culture could recognize His plan. You could take comfort in the fact that God led 3 Pagans to find Christ as an infant symbolizing that He will lead others as well, you could take comfort in Paul telling the Greeks that their “unknown god” was really THE GOD, they just didn’t know it.

The bottom line is that you can focus on Christ and trust in Him or you can spend your time as a Christian looking for the devil.

I personally think we should be looking to Christ rather than looking for the Devil. This was the reason I left the Baptist Church and became Presbyterian all those years ago… Praise the Lord that eventually led me home and to the Truth.

Joe

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Santa Claus’ reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. The Horned Gods of Wicca Herne the Hunter and Cernunnos wear the horns of the stag on their heads and then mate with the Spring Goddess in the Great Rite of Spring.

The Horned God has developed our concept of the devil (horny devil) although he is more commonly portrayed with goat horns rather than antlers but he can in fact wear both.

One of the origins of Santa Claus is Odin/Woden who was a Norse Pagan creator god called All Father and is sometimes known as Skyfather. According to Wikipedia, Odin and Thor were rejected by Catholics in their baptismal vows one thousand years ago.

Have no fear. On checking my -]collection/-] documents, I found that the Norse pagan creator-god Odin/Woden was actually killed in 2001 (The Mighty Thor #40, v.2). And as Tales of Asgard #5 reveals, the Asgardian who walks around with horns on his chapeau is actually Hogun the Grim, who appears to be equally indifferent to children, presents, and cookies.

Now, the parallels between Santa Claus and Volstagg the Valiant are more suggestive, and though my -]collected issues/-] extant documentation mentions no Spring Goddess, Fandral the Dashing seems capable of making time with her. This is arrant speculation, however, and belongs firmly with Norse pseudo-gnosticism and apocrypha (cf. Ultimate Marvel).

And to put the lid firmly on this baseless rumor-mongering, Thor’s red, flashing nose has not been depicted since 1968’s Journey into Mystery #16.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

A little off topic but it always bothered me (even as a child) that in the cartoon, when Santa see’s Rudolphs nose for the first time he no longer lets him join in any reindeer games. Basically saying that if someone is different they should be shunned. Not until his special talent is required does he become accepted by his society. Doesn’t quite sound like Saintly behavior.

Not a big deal, just funny how even to this day that still rubs me the wrong way. Still love the cartoon. I remember as a kid checking the newspapers to see exactly when all the good Christmas cartoons would be on TV, didn’t want to miss them. That anticipation is also lost on my children as they have 150+ channels plus have all the classics on VHS/DVD anyway. Jeez, I’m starting to sound like my father…

I just wanted to reassure you that it wasn’t Santa who excuded Rudolph from reindeer games, it was the other reindeer. In that story Santa didn’t chose to have him pull the sleigh, which wasn’t the action of the saint but one can see the natural pragmaticism of the secular author instead of the saintly supernatural seeing of Rudolph’s vocation. The real Santa would have known Rudolph had a special purpose. That is how it really happened.

 

[Auriel]

A little off topic but it always bothered me (even as a child) that in the cartoon, when Santa see’s Rudolphs nose for the first time he no longer lets him join in any reindeer games. Basically saying that if someone is different they should be shunned. Not until his special talent is required does he become accepted by his society. Doesn’t quite sound like Saintly behavior.

Not a big deal, just funny how even to this day that still rubs me the wrong way. Still love the cartoon. I remember as a kid checking the newspapers to see exactly when all the good Christmas cartoons would be on TV, didn’t want to miss them. That anticipation is also lost on my children as they have 150+ channels plus have all the classics on VHS/DVD anyway. Jeez, I’m starting to sound like my father…

HAHAHA! Me too! I knew nothing about Saints though, I just thought, “Gee, Santa is kind of mean!” I was too smart, or smart mouthed, when the cartoon came to the part where Charlie in the Box complained I smarted off…“DUH, just change your name to Jack stupid! No one will ever know!”

As for this thread, people are making too much out of it.

True, there are ancient Sumerian deities that are depicted with horns that predate Wicca. (BTW, if you saw the new movie, “The Fourth Kind” go brush up on your ancient Sumer

And The Siberian Shaman, depending on what group they were from, did don red and white fur trimmed robes. So did lots of people throughout history. The Siberian Shaman fell easily into trance, and on a rare occasion, very rare, they would inject the cap of a certain mushroom. They also happened to be surrounded by deer. Who knows, maybe a few reindeer did appear to fly when in that state.

Legends of flying reindeer are very old. wnyc.org/books/55031

There is nothing in the animal Kingdom that God did not create first. It all belonged to God. The deer is not evil. A symbol of the stag was also used for hundreds of years to represent Christ, The stag was the enemy of the serpent.

God’s creation does not become evil just because people twist it’s meaning.

What another said about Robert May, is correct. He wrote the book in 1939 for Montgomery Wards. It almost did not happen, red noses were associated with alcoholics.

On a sad note he did not get a dime from it and was in deep debt from medical bills, (Wife died the same year he wrote the story) until 1947 when the corp president of Montgomery Wards turned over the copyright. And his creation took off!

He did not write it based on any ancient pagan gods or goddesses,. It was based off his own ugly duckling childhood. Robert May was very small and shy as a child, He received a lot of teasing and was bullied. Rudolph is about being a misfit but making it.

I have a copy of that first 1939 edition, it is soo cute. http://i35.tinypic.com/2m6o30w.jpg

And if people do not stop messing with Christmas they will wake up on Christmas morning only to find coal in their stockings. I swear people are turning into you know who…http://i33.tinypic.com/1zyfnv9.jpg

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Leaving aside for the moment my minty-fresh Asgardian exegesis (see above)…

Was I the only child whom the Rudolph song rubbed the wrong way? “Well, sure we reindeer rejected you–what did you expect?–but now that we find your freakish deformity has some PRACTICAL USE for us, how we love you and shall shout out with glee, etc, etc. Course, if your nose wasn’t such a great fog-cutter, you’d still be about as welcome here as a Marian apparition on Jack Chick’s refrigerator.”

Well okay … I didn’t phrase it quite that way in second grade. Still, it neatly encapsulates the way that song struck me, and still strikes me today. Now if you’ll excuse me, my Herbie the Dentist cookies are nearly ready.

 

[Anna_jane]

I collect crazy conspiracy theories for fun, and this is definitely going up on the wall. Ever since the Weekly World News died, I’ve been looking around for a new source, maybe this is it!

 

[kage_ar]

I collect crazy conspiracy theories for fun, and this is definitely going up on the wall. Ever since the Weekly World News died, I’ve been looking around for a new source, maybe this is it!

I used to collect Weekly World Newsheadlines!

My favorite was “Storybook Romance Ends as Legless Hubby Murders Dwarf Bride”.

 

[joandarc2008]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

And for those of you who might live in the tropics this is the endangered Key Deer and it seems to hang out by our Church in the Keys especially in the winter - not to say we really have a winter and they also get antlers which they shed yearly.

 

[purplesunshine]

Leaving aside for the moment my minty-fresh Asgardian exegesis (see above)…

Was I the only child whom the Rudolph song rubbed the wrong way? “Well, sure we reindeer rejected you–what did you expect?–but now that we find your freakish deformity has some PRACTICAL USE for us, how we love you and shall shout out with glee, etc, etc. Course, if your nose wasn’t such a great fog-cutter, you’d still be about as welcome here as a Marian apparition on Jack Chick’s refrigerator.”

Well okay … I didn’t phrase it quite that way in second grade. Still, it neatly encapsulates the way that song struck me, and still strikes me today. Now if you’ll excuse me, my Herbie the Dentist cookies are nearly ready.

There are quite a few songs I dislike. Actually, I was really aggravated a few years when “Olive, the other Reindeer” came out. What a B* and she gets a movie?

 

[monicatholic]

Santa Claus’ reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer.

but that’s why we love him, right? voodooartist.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/evilreindeerchristmasdoll.jpg

i don’t want to seem thin skinned, but this was no laughing matter "

Storybook Romance Ends as Legless Hubby Murders Dwarf Bride".

. we moved into that house. it was like the Amityville Horror except that everything was very small and instead of stairs, there was a slide.

and we have the winner of this week’s best metaphor contest: you’d still be about as welcome here as a Marian apparition on Jack Chick’s refrigerator.
give that poster a Fatima holy card!

 

[Zooey]

Hey, this thread reminds me: We haven’t yet heard from the Evils Of The Christmas Tree guy yet this year.
Maybe he was caught by Rudolph the Red Nosed Snowman & Frosty the Red Eyed Reindeer, and super-glued to Jack Chick’s refrigerator!!!

 

[bluerose]

Leaving aside for the moment my minty-fresh Asgardian exegesis (see above)…

Was I the only child whom the Rudolph song rubbed the wrong way? “Well, sure we reindeer rejected you–what did you expect?–but now that we find your freakish deformity has some PRACTICAL USE for us, how we love you and shall shout out with glee, etc, etc. Course, if your nose wasn’t such a great fog-cutter, you’d still be about as welcome here as a Marian apparition on Jack Chick’s refrigerator.”

Well okay … I didn’t phrase it quite that way in second grade. Still, it neatly encapsulates the way that song struck me, and still strikes me today. Now if you’ll excuse me, my Herbie the Dentist cookies are nearly ready.

“Hey, whaddya say we be independent together???”

(That’s my favorite line!)

 

[Mattapoisett64]

At last! Now I understand why rearranging the letters in “Santa” gets you . . . SATAN ! !

 

[estesbob]

Santa Claus’ reindeer Rudolph may be related to the Horned God of Wicca who dies on Halloween and is reborn on the Winter Solstice and is symbolised by an antlered deer. The Horned Gods of Wicca Herne the Hunter and Cernunnos wear the horns of the stag on their heads and then mate with the Spring Goddess in the Great Rite of Spring.

The Horned God has developed our concept of the devil (horny devil) although he is more commonly portrayed with goat horns rather than antlers but he can in fact wear both.

One of the origins of Santa Claus is Odin/Woden who was a Norse Pagan creator god called All Father and is sometimes known as Skyfather. According to Wikipedia, Odin and Thor were rejected by Catholics in their baptismal vows one thousand years ago.

I hate to break this to you but Rudolf is not real-he’s a cartoon character-well actaully he started out as a song and then became a cartoon character.

Ill let you parents tell you about Santa Claus-i am sure I have already caused you enough distress as it is.