Rules regarding Marriage?

[FrDavid96]

Thanks to all for your help!

In terms of the hall rental fees someone asked about… we are actually having the reception at a outdoor location, the ranch of a family friend, so we don’t have any fees for that. If we end up hiring a minister to come officiate an outdoor ceremony there, it would only cost a couple hundred for that. (Speaking of which, does anyone know if Catholic Priests will perform marriage ceremonies outside of a chuch?)

If I only wanted a ceremony, not an entire mass, for my particular wedding, would the fees decrease? The churches I called for pricing did not mention that.

One more follow-up question… how does a priest “bless the marriage” following a civil ceremony? Are there time limits, costs, classes, etc…?

Thanks again!

Ok. Just direct answers.

If a Catholic priest performs a wedding outside of the church building, he needs the specific permission of the bishop. He cannot do so unless it would otherwise be a wedding that he could perform inside the Church.

The “fees” for the wedding are set by the individual parish (within the guidelines set by the diocese). So the only ones who can answer that question are the parish staff.

The priest does not “bless” the marriage. The priest convalidates the marriage that already exists. (People are giving some incorrect information here) There is a blessing within that.
In order to do a convalidation, the priest must be satisfied that the couple meets all of the requirements of the Church for a “regular” wedding. If that is not the case, the priest cannot ever do a convalidation. Once the pastor is satisfied that this has been met, he must request permission from the bishop to convalidate that particular marriage (unless the bishop has previously given some kind of “blanket” permission).

Keep in mind that a priest may never convalidate a marriage until he is satisfied that the couple meets the requirements of the Church to be married in the first place, including that the couple must actually believe in the Church’s theological understanding of marriage itself.

 

[engaged92008]

Is this fair to them, or to your bride to be? Does your bride to be want a Catholic wedding? Does she know how you fell about the church? For the sake of both of you, you really should make sure you are on the same page. Not judging, just trying to be honest, thats all.

I am the bride.

I have mixed feelings about raising children in ANY religion. I feel like I wasn’t given a choice in the matter, and I feel that my children should have one. My fiance (groom) does know how I feel about the church, he knows my apprehension to marry in it. Like I said, neither of us is a practicing Catholic, but he told me just the other day that he was attending church regularly up until he met me. And I felt just horrible about that.

Like I said, just because I don’t agree with everything the church teaches doesn’t mean I don’t believe in some of it, or most of it, actually. So, its not like I’m anti-catholic, and pretending. It would mean something to me to be married in the Catholic Church, I just don’t know that it’s all THAT important to me, but want everyone to be happy, as I’ve said over and over. And the other part of me wants it to all be easy, and just have a simple outdoor wedding, which a priest won’t perform… so that’s why I’m asking questions about Convalidation. But, I’ve been researching on other sites, and some of the sites are saying that you can’t get the marriage Convalidated if you simply “chose” not to have a Catholic wedding to begin with… which would be our case.

I’m just so confused about it all… so many rules!

 

[FrDavid96]

But, I’ve been researching on other sites, and some of the sites are saying that you can’t get the marriage Convalidated if you simply “chose” not to have a Catholic wedding to begin with… which would be our case.

That’s absolutely absurd, and incorrect. Convalidations exist precisely because the couple decided not to have a Catholic wedding in the first place.

But that doesn’t change the fact that regardless of the circumstances, a convalidation just isn’t possible unless the couple accepts the Church’s theology of marriage. Convalidations are only performed because the couple wants the marriage to be a Sacrament in the Church, and never for the sake of satisfying the needs or priorities of third-parties, even close relatives.

 

[MamaMia3]

Let me give you some sound advise…
Take the PreCanna Class!!! You said your fiance wants a Catholic wedding.Sounds important to him. In time he may grow closer and closer to the faith and you may or may not. Your relationship may suffer. The pre marraige course will ask you both to really look long and hard at your hopes dreams etc. You may even learn something that you didn’t know or didn’t fully understand. This is a FOREVER commitment!!! Don’t put yourself and your husband to be out of communion. Remember a spouse should bring out the best in you and do what ever it takes to do that.Please start your married life right.
Peace

 

[RichT]

I am the bride.

Whoops, sorry. I can remember wen my wife and I were planning to be married. For several months leading up to the wedding, we thought we had to do everything we could to make certain people happy; parents, relatives, etc… Thankfully we simply decided one day to set them all straight. We reminded them that this was our wedding and not theirs. I’ll spare you the details, but let’s just say that everyone still talks and we all still have a good loving relationship. They got over it.

Either way, should you deicde you really want a Catholic marriage at some point in time, then FrDavid96 has given you some good advice.

 

[agapewolf]

So, its not like I’m anti-catholic, and pretending. It would mean something to me to be married in the Catholic Church,

This is the most offensive thing… you say you are Catholic…but then you say you are “pro-choice”. One cannot…by its very definition be pro-choice and Catholic. It isn’t just “one” teaching that you can pick or choose to believe or not to believe…
We believe that life begins at conception. Therefore, an abortion is killing someone. Period. That is Catholicism. Life.

Its like saying that you are a vegetarian but want to eat meat.

 

[benedictgal]

Thanks to all for your help!

In terms of the hall rental fees someone asked about… we are actually having the reception at a outdoor location, the ranch of a family friend, so we don’t have any fees for that. If we end up hiring a minister to come officiate an outdoor ceremony there, it would only cost a couple hundred for that. (Speaking of which, does anyone know if Catholic Priests will perform marriage ceremonies outside of a chuch?)

If I only wanted a ceremony, not an entire mass, for my particular wedding, would the fees decrease? The churches I called for pricing did not mention that.

One more follow-up question… how does a priest “bless the marriage” following a civil ceremony? Are there time limits, costs, classes, etc…?

Thanks again!

You are in Austin. That was my old stomping ground. Why not try St. Austin’s Church? It is located on the drag. It’s a huge white, monotlithic building. They also have a program called “Landings” for Catholics in your situation. Give the parish a try.

As a Catholic, you are bound to marry under the norms established by the Church. Talk to the priests at St. Austin’s. They can arrange to have a Nuptial liturgy without the Mass. Inasmuch as this is recommended for couples in a mixed marriage (where one of the parties is Catholic), this might be an option.

Remembr one thing: there are going to be three people in this marriage: you, your future spouse and Christ. Why not start off on the right foot by inviting Christ into the marriage from the very beginning? Just prior to exchanging your consent, the priest prays that “Christ abundantly blesses this love”. Your marriage is supposed to mirror the relationship between Christ and His Bride, the Church. Why not start off your marriage by celebrating the sacrament in HIs Church?

You also need to be open to the possibility of new life. Remember that the first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve was to be fruitful and multiply. You need to be willing to accept openly and lovingly the children that God wills to give you. Yes, God gives you a free will, but, when we pray the Our Father, we need to conform our will to His. God will not give you more than you can handle.

No one ever said that being a Catholic was easy. In fact, Jesus noted as much when he said that the narrow gate is hard to enter. Do talk to the priests at the parish. PM me and I will tell you which one to meet with, as he is a friend of mine.

By not starting off with Christ and His Church as integral components of your marriage, I am afraid that you are commencing on the wrong foot.

 

[Lancer]

*FrDavid96 Quote:
Originally Posted by Nechasin forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
**According to the Catholic church you are not married.

Not true. The Church recognizes the authority of the state to perform marriages. If a couple has been legally married, the Church considers it a civil marriage (though not necessarily a sacrament).
*

FrDavid96:

I believe that your are (partially) right…their marriage is legal in civil law and the Church recognizes the state’s authority in that civil law…but…and this is a big “but”…they (any Catholic married outside the Church) are not considered married in the eyes of God…and in the eyes of the Catholic Church…they are living in sin. In other words for a valid Catholic marriage (a sacrament…there is no other kind for a Catholic), a Catholic must be prepared for marriage (complete Pre-Cana instruction and ensure to the Bishop (via the pastor) that there are no impediments to their free consent). He/she must marry their spouse (the couple perform the the sacrament in their exchange of vows) in a Catholic Church and be witnessed two lay witnesses and by a Catholic pastor/priest/Deacon…as witness for the Bishop (The Church). Now…the Bishop can approve some alternate “forms” such as the site (in a protestant church or a home), and can authorize other Christian minster’s participation in the ceremony, and in rare cases he can authorize a non Catholic minister to preside and be the Church witness for the Catholic Church, etc… However, changes to the normal sacramental “form” are not given lightly and must have substantive reasons to get the Bishop to even consider altering the normal sacramental “form”. Most importantly of all…for getting married in the Catholic Church…a valid sacrament-marriage confers special graces to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity…to attain holiness in their married life and to prepare them to welcome and educate the children that God may give them as a great blessing for/in their marriage . It is this invisible reality (validly married in the eyes of God and His Church in order to receive these graces for the husband and wife and their children) that makes getting married in the Church so very important…and such an incredible treasure of riches.

Again, if you are Catholic, you must be married in the Catholic Church according to canonical “form” (only the Bishop can approve changes to this prescribed “form”). If not, you may be considered legally married by civil authorities/law…but you are not validly married in the eyes of God nor His Church…you are living in a sinful state.

Pax Christi

 

[FrDavid96]

FrDavid96 Quote:
Originally Posted by Nechasin forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*According to the Catholic church you are not married.

Not true. The Church recognizes the authority of the state to perform marriages. If a couple has been legally married, the Church considers it a civil marriage (though not necessarily a sacrament).
*

FrDavid96:

I believe that your are (partially) right…their marriage is legal in civil law and the Church recognizes the state’s authority in that civil law…but…and this is a big “but”…they (any Catholic married outside the Church) are not considered married in the eyes of God…and in the eyes of the Catholic Church…they are living in sin. In other words for a valid Catholic marriage (a sacrament…there is no other kind for a Catholic), a Catholic must be prepared for marriage (complete Pre-Cana instruction and ensure to the Bishop (via the pastor) that there are no impediments to their free consent). He/she must marry their spouse (the couple perform the the sacrament in their exchange of vows) in a Catholic Church and be witnessed two lay witnesses and by a Catholic pastor/priest/Deacon…as witness for the Bishop (The Church). Now…the Bishop can approve some alternate “forms” such as the site (in a protestant church or a home), and can authorize other Christian minster’s participation in the ceremony, and in rare cases he can authorize a non Catholic minister to preside and be the Church witness for the Catholic Church, etc… However, changes to the normal sacramental “form” are not given lightly and must have substantive reasons to get the Bishop to even consider altering the normal sacramental “form”. Most importantly of all…for getting married in the Catholic Church…a valid sacrament-marriage confers special graces to perfect the couple’s love and to strengthen their indissoluble unity…to attain holiness in their married life and to prepare them to welcome and educate the children that God may give them as a great blessing for/in their marriage . It is this invisible reality (validly married in the eyes of God and His Church in order to receive these graces for the husband and wife and their children) that makes getting married in the Church so very important…and such an incredible treasure of riches.

Again, if you are Catholic, you must be married in the Catholic Church according to canonical “form” (only the Bishop can approve changes to this prescribed “form”). If not, you may be considered legally married by civil authorities/law…but you are not validly married in the eyes of God nor His Church…you are living in a sinful state.

Pax Christi

Since the marriage is legal in civil law, it is “a marriage”

If you read my posts, you’ll notice that I’ve been most careful about my choice of words; what I have said and what I have not said.

 

[mercygate]

This is the most offensive thing… you say you are Catholic…but then you say you are “pro-choice”. One cannot…by its very definition be pro-choice and Catholic. It isn’t just “one” teaching that you can pick or choose to believe or not to believe…
We believe that life begins at conception. Therefore, an abortion is killing someone. Period. That is Catholicism. Life.

Its like saying that you are a vegetarian but want to eat meat.

OK, Everybody. Let’s all beat up on the bride.

You act like you never met anybody who thinks like this before. 80% of Catholics today – even those sitting in the pew next to you – could not defend the Church’s position on the life issues for 5 minutes BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER TAUGHT.

Now is the time to help this sincere young lady work with the program. She already thinks that it’s just about “rules” and hasn’t yet connected the rules with the big picture.

 

[agapewolf]

OK, Everybody. Let’s all beat up on the bride.

You act like you never met anybody who thinks like this before. 80% of Catholics today – even those sitting in the pew next to you – could not defend the Church’s position on the life issues for 5 minutes BECAUSE THEY WERE NEVER TAUGHT.

Now is the time to help this sincere young lady work with the program. She already thinks that it’s just about “rules” and hasn’t yet connected the rules with the big picture.

And so I am teaching. There was no beating up anyone.

 

[engaged92008]

Thank you, I really appreciate the defense.

I thought that by coming on here, I might catch some flack for my beliefs. But I thought I should explain to everyone why I’m conflicted. I know WHY there are rules. I understand why the church teaches what it does. I was raised Catholic, went to sunday school, was even heavily involved in the Life Teen program at my church until I was 18. For those last 2 years I was invloved, I began to research deeper, becoming more knowledgeable about the church, what it teaches, and also began to form my own personal belief system, which didn’t quite “mesh” with what Catholicism teaches. I had a lengthy discussion with my devout Catholic mother about my faith, my morals, and my stance on some very tough issues. She agreed that since I was turning 18, that if I chose to stop attending Mass with her, and wanted to find my own way, that she couldn’t stop me.

So, I stopped going, and I felt better about myself. I didn’t feel that “hole” like she said I would. I felt that I was being true to myself for not pretending anymore.

Recently, I’ve come to understand that I may have been confused and conflicted about other aspects of my life at the time, and while I still don’t agree with everything Catholicism is, I don’t feel like I HAVE to agree 100% anymore. I don’t think it is that black and white for everyone, or anyone.

Yes, I have thought about coming back to the curch wholeheartedly, taking the “first step” by having a Catholic wedding. But I also want a wedding day that will mean something to me, my fiance, and my family. I want it to be perfect, as every bride does. I want to feel like I have options, should I choose to NOT be married in the Catholic church. Part of this reasoning is that I’ve tried to contact about 5 churches in my area, and all of them have tried to “scare me off” by either telling me that the price is VERY high for non-members, or by just not calling me back at all, after I’ve left several messages for different people.

I’m getting the feeling that I’m not wanted because my beliefs don’t meet the high standards of those in charge. I’m being honest with these parishes when I call, and obviously, my honesty is costing me.

 

[mercygate]

Thank you, I really appreciate the defense.

I thought that by coming on here, I might catch some flack for my beliefs. But I thought I should explain to everyone why I’m conflicted. I know WHY there are rules. I understand why the church teaches what it does. I was raised Catholic, went to sunday school, was even heavily involved in the Life Teen program at my church until I was 18. For those last 2 years I was invloved, I began to research deeper, becoming more knowledgeable about the church, what it teaches, and also began to form my own personal belief system, which didn’t quite “mesh” with what Catholicism teaches. I had a lengthy discussion with my devout Catholic mother about my faith, my morals, and my stance on some very tough issues. She agreed that since I was turning 18, that if I chose to stop attending Mass with her, and wanted to find my own way, that she couldn’t stop me.

So, I stopped going, and I felt better about myself. I didn’t feel that “hole” like she said I would. I felt that I was being true to myself for not pretending anymore.

Recently, I’ve come to understand that I may have been confused and conflicted about other aspects of my life at the time, and while I still don’t agree with everything Catholicism is, I don’t feel like I HAVE to agree 100% anymore. I don’t think it is that black and white for everyone, or anyone.

Yes, I have thought about coming back to the curch wholeheartedly, taking the “first step” by having a Catholic wedding. But I also want a wedding day that will mean something to me, my fiance, and my family. I want it to be perfect, as every bride does. I want to feel like I have options, should I choose to NOT be married in the Catholic church. Part of this reasoning is that I’ve tried to contact about 5 churches in my area, and all of them have tried to “scare me off” by either telling me that the price is VERY high for non-members, or by just not calling me back at all, after I’ve left several messages for different people.

I’m getting the feeling that I’m not wanted because my beliefs don’t meet the high standards of those in charge. I’m being honest with these parishes when I call, and obviously, my honesty is costing me.

Well, the churches that seem stand-offish have to be honest, too, and in honesty, since you do not accept the Catholic view of marriage, you would therefore be unable to render the consent required to make a marriage valid and sacramental.

Everybody has some reservations about some aspects of the faith. The line is drawn between those who question and those who reject. Often people call a rejection a question. Often people believe they understand a teaching fully but in fact only understand the “rule” and not what is underneath the rule. For example, I have never met a Catholic who rejects the Church’s position on contraception, who could articularte that teaching AT ALL. Most of 'em do not even know the two words, “Humanae vitae.”

I’m not saying this is you. I am saying that this has been my experience.

As for “costing” you – I guess this is where you confront the consequences of your position. It’s not costing you anything you actually own, since you have walked away of your own free will. The churches can’t legitimately reduce themselves to providing a stage set for your wedding just because your mom wants it.

 

[benedictgal]

I am curious as to which churches you went to visit. The reason being that even though I’ve been out of Austin for 10 years, I still have a good idea of who is where.

Part of the problem, and, to the bride, please don’t take this as beating you up, there are those who want to have their cake and eat it, too. As a Catholic, you are bound by the laws of Christ and His Church. In the marriage consent, these questions will come up during the Nuptial Rite. You and your future spouse are going to be the ministers of this sacrament. The priest is there to bless you and be the Church’s witness. It is a very serious sacrament.

Unfortunately, you have TV shows like “Whose Wedding is it Anyway” and “A Wedding Story” that focus on the story book, perfect aspect of things and neglect the important religious and sacramental nature of the wedding. Unfortunately, the secular media has done a very good job in clouding the judgment of brides into thinking that they can sacrifice the religious aspect of the wedding in favor of having the ideal setting and all of the other stuff. I am not trying to pooh pooh things. I almost got married and wanted those things, but, I also wanted to make sure that the Mass would exceed the other trappings.

To the bride, I speak from experience in that I assisted the rector and the wedding coordinator in planning for weddings at our cathedral (as well as convalidations). I had to grade the foccus tests for the future spouses as well as explain to them why they can’t do this and that at a wedding.

Now, I am still waiting for the OP to PM me so that I can offer some guidance as far as Austin is concerned. The offer still stands.

 

[Aramis]

Pro-life is required belief. It isn’t optional. The binding clause at the end of Humanae Vitae is clear.

 

[engaged92008]

Ahh… that good 'ol “Catholic Guilt”…

…and so I once again remember why I left the church to begin with. I know that the majority of you were trying to be helpful, and I sincerely appreciate that.

But those of you who have been laying on the “my way or the highway” lines… you should be ashamed that you are not tolerant, kind, and forgiving people. By bullying people into this religion, you are creating a culture of fear. Or maybe that is what you want, so that they’re afraid to ever leave.

I know that all Catholics are not this strict and surly. I know there are only a handful of you. But you spoil it for those Catholics who believe what they feel is right and don’t try to push their beliefs rudely on others.

I didn’t come to this forum for advice on how to be Catholic. I simply wanted to know what my options were for being married in the Catholic church. I also thought that I might find some sort of peace and feel welcomed for wanting to return. I was wrong.

The Catholic Church is just as intimidating and self-righteous as I remember it.

You all have made my choice so much easier.

I would NEVER want to belong to a group, religion, etc… that didn’t respect the free will, beliefs, or personal morals of ALL its members. That is being Christ-like. Tolerance, respect, and kindness.

Thank you all for re-opening my eyes to what I’ve known for 10 years.

I thank you all who did provide good advice, and will pray for those of you who chose to do nothing but ridicule. I pray that you find peace in your own hearts and minds.

God Bless you all.

 

[mercygate]

Ahh… that good 'ol “Catholic Guilt”…

…and so I once again remember why I left the church to begin with. I know that the majority of you were trying to be helpful, and I sincerely appreciate that.

But those of you who have been laying on the “my way or the highway” lines… you should be ashamed that you are not tolerant, kind, and forgiving people. By bullying people into this religion, you are creating a culture of fear. Or maybe that is what you want, so that they’re afraid to ever leave.

I know that all Catholics are not this strict and surly. I know there are only a handful of you. But you spoil it for those Catholics who believe what they feel is right and don’t try to push their beliefs rudely on others.

I didn’t come to this forum for advice on how to be Catholic. I simply wanted to know what my options were for being married in the Catholic church. I also thought that I might find some sort of peace and feel welcomed for wanting to return. I was wrong.

The Catholic Church is just as intimidating and self-righteous as I remember it.

You all have made my choice so much easier.

I would NEVER want to belong to a group, religion, etc… that didn’t respect the free will, beliefs, or personal morals of ALL its members. That is being Christ-like. Tolerance, respect, and kindness.

Thank you all for re-opening my eyes to what I’ve known for 10 years.

I thank you all who did provide good advice, and will pray for those of you who chose to do nothing but ridicule. I pray that you find peace in your own hearts and minds.

God Bless you all.

I agree that people can be extremely hostile, which is pointless and counter-productive. Nevertheless, there are “non-negotiables” in the Christian faith, and it would be irresponsible not to show why that is.

To say “You can’t be Catholic and pro-choice!” doesn’t help a person to understand WHY the Catholic Church believes that killing unborn children is non-negotiable.

I hope that at some point you can separate the messenger from the message. The Catholic stance on the life issues is one of the most beautiful features of her social teaching.

 

[agapewolf]

Ahh… that good 'ol “Catholic Guilt”…

…and so I once again remember why I left the church to begin with. I know that the majority of you were trying to be helpful, and I sincerely appreciate that.

But those of you who have been laying on the “my way or the highway” lines… you should be ashamed that you are not tolerant, kind, and forgiving people. By bullying people into this religion, you are creating a culture of fear. Or maybe that is what you want, so that they’re afraid to ever leave.

I know that all Catholics are not this strict and surly. I know there are only a handful of you. But you spoil it for those Catholics who believe what they feel is right and don’t try to push their beliefs rudely on others.

I didn’t come to this forum for advice on how to be Catholic. I simply wanted to know what my options were for being married in the Catholic church. I also thought that I might find some sort of peace and feel welcomed for wanting to return. I was wrong.

The Catholic Church is just as intimidating and self-righteous as I remember it.

You all have made my choice so much easier.

I would NEVER want to belong to a group, religion, etc… that didn’t respect the free will, beliefs, or personal morals of ALL its members. That is being Christ-like. Tolerance, respect, and kindness.

Thank you all for re-opening my eyes to what I’ve known for 10 years.

I thank you all who did provide good advice, and will pray for those of you who chose to do nothing but ridicule. I pray that you find peace in your own hearts and minds.

God Bless you all.

But see, you didn’t want to return. You wanted to be your own way…

Catholicism is NOT a cafeteria where you can pick and choose what you want to believe in. Again, no one has judged you, but we are not going to sit by and watch someone hurt themselves. You may not think you are drinking poison, but the poison will still hurt you regardless.

By the way, do not put traits on Jesus that he did not do. Jesus did not “tolerate”. He said “Go and sin no more”. And allowed people to walk away from Him.

The Bible is very clear that those who eat and drink unworthily will be held accountable.

There has been no intimidation here. You have come here asking questions about the church, and we have answered them. It is apparent that you haven’t looked into the church’s teachings because you didn’t even articulate them well in the first place. We are encouraging you to study them. Becuase you might be the one wrong here. 2000 years the Church has stood as Truth…it doesn’t bend to what we want it to be, we must bend to be in line with Christ’s teachings.

There has been no showing of “unforgiveness” at all. We want you to be Catholic…we really do. we want you to BE Catholic. One cannot BE Catholic by its very definition and NOT be catholic at the same time.

Everyone here has been very kind to you, especially when you have come in with offensive statements.

 

[Seatuck]

Not true. The Church recognizes the authority of the state to perform marriages. If a couple has been legally married, the Church considers it a civil marriage (though not necessarily a sacrament).

Isn’t it grave matter for a Catholic to contract an invalid marriage? Isn’t this why the Catholic party is not admitted to communion?

 

[FrDavid96]

Isn’t it grave matter for a Catholic to contract an invalid marriage? Isn’t this why the Catholic party is not admitted to communion?

Have I ever said otherwise?